@Stone Rhino posted:This is hopefully the fix for TMCC and ERR functions.
I'll be surprised if it doesn't fix a number of issues.
Several members of our club gathered over at Putnam Division's house today to try out Base 3/Cab 3 on his layout. Peter has it working so it gave a chance for the ones that bought the Base 3 to discuss problems they've had so far. I haven't gotten one yet, but I've read through most of the several threads and I am concerned about how well ERR or TAS products work with the new system. So we tried out a few different locos.
- Atlas U23b with ERR Cruise Commander set for 100 speed steps - Set up the engine for R100 mode, engine would not move although the sounds worked. Set up engine in TMCC mode and everything seemed to work OK. Throttle response appeared as good as using the Cab 2 or 1L with the exception when the throttle was set to zero the engine continued to crawl along like it was at the first speed step. The step counter readout only went up to 32 but actual engine operation was as good as using my Cab 2 at home.
- Atlas RS-1 with TAS EOB set for 128 speed steps - Set up engine for TMCC mode. Engine ran fine, had full throttle range and good slow speed operation. Again in TMCC mode the step counter only showed up to 32 steps but that is the same as on the Cab 2. It only shows 32 steps although with the Cab 2 every 5 or 6 clicks of the throttle, increments the step counter one step. I'd say Cab 3 operation of EOB is the same as using a Cab 2.
- K-Line/Lionel SD70 with unknown electronics and unknown speed step setting - Tried setting this up as a TMCC engine and an R100 engine. In both cases the engine would not respond to the throttle at all. Tried running the engine with a Cab 1L remote and it worked OK so the issue is with the Base 3/Cab3. This was the last K-Line engine and was actually finished and delivered by Lionel.
I have a number of ERR equipped engines so I really would like to see the Cab 3 handle these engines correctly. I probably should try out a few more including some equipped with Cruise M's.
Ken
One amusing point to add to Ken's excellent summary is that pictures of locos don't travel. So when I first tried to access my one problem loco, I was looking at Peter's roster (with a few hundred new haven locos) and the funny part was if I had an identical number assigned, my picture would show for Peter's loco.
Did anyone know new haven had a Virginian train master?
We had a great time testing out multiple engines/engine configurations. It is always good to have knowledgeable people around you when you are trying things out!
Here are a few pics from our session…… we also did discover a Legacy RS-11 that responded to Legacy commands but lost all sounds; a LionChief Polar Express Berk that responded to the LC App but had no sounds; and, an Alaska 0-6-0 LionChief 2.0 that responds to the LionChief App but will not program for TMCC.
The Santa Fe is the K-Line by Lionel engine that will not work with the Cab 3 App, but works with the Cab 2 remote and the Cab 1L.
Peter
Attachments
Images (4)
Videos (1)
Marty has done a nice video, posting the link here for youtube in case any missed it. He fills in some details on LionChief engines I did not get a chance to try since I only have a few of them. BTW- nice star trek loco- love the sounds!
Lionel's Base3 and 4 Ways to pair LionChief Bluetooth Engines with the Base3 System. (youtube.com)
@MartyE posted:EDIT: I was informed Base3 will work with the LCS app so I will check it out tonight.
For now if you want to use the iPad LCS App you still need the LCS WiFi module. I still have mine in the chain just for this purpose. Be aware, that the Cab3 App will attach to the LCS module if set to auto detect. You won't have a database and things are wonky. I have set the IP address on the Base3 and use the manual entry on the App's WiFi connection Settings to connect to Base3.
The iPad uses the LCS module to connect for the LCS App and the Cab3 App uses the Base3 all via the home network. Anything I do on either App as far as switches, Accessories, Blocks, etc is reflected on the LCS App.
TrackerJohn posted this.
Marty you mentioned if the LCS WiFi is still running things could get "Wonky" and "you'll have no database." Yesterday after entering all my engines, switches, accessories into the data base, first I lost the entire Engine Roster from the Cab3, then what I thought were database backups were empty when I tried to restore them. Needless to say, I was not happy. Also during this time, I lost Wifi connection to the Base3. I turned everything off, disconnected the LCS WiFi module and watched TV.
Today I restored Wifi connection to the Base3 and had to reload all my engines. Tomorrow I'll tackle switches and accessories. The only 'good thing' is all the pictures of my engines were on my phone so they popped right in as I reloaded the modules. Is that the "Wonky" you meant??
It's a slick new Base and App...when they play nice.
you don't need the LCS wifi module with a base3 to use the LCS app
@ToledoEd posted:Marty you mentioned if the LCS WiFi is still running things could get "Wonky" and "you'll have no database." Yesterday after entering all my engines, switches, accessories into the data base, first I lost the entire Engine Roster from the Cab3, then what I thought were database backups were empty when I tried to restore them. Needless to say, I was not happy. Also during this time, I lost Wifi connection to the Base3. I turned everything off, disconnected the LCS WiFi module and watched TV.
Today I restored Wifi connection to the Base3 and had to reload all my engines. Tomorrow I'll tackle switches and accessories. The only 'good thing' is all the pictures of my engines were on my phone so they popped right in as I reloaded the modules. Is that the "Wonky" you meant??
It's a slick new Base and App...when they play nice.
Yep. The Cab3 App connects to the LCS module and does some weird things and of course your database appears to be gone. It's really still in the Base3. While you can have the LCS module connected, it really doesn't make sense as the Base3 will work just fine with LCS.
If you have the LCS WiFi active, then you *MUST* manually Enter the Base3 IP address in the Cab3's WiFi Connection Settings.
I observe that the host device should be rebooted after you set the IP address to clear out data in the Cab3's cache. My roster returns intact after a reboot if I had previously connected the Cab3 to the LCS WiFi and made the roster disappear.
You don't need the LCS WiFi unless you are using existing software that depends on the data stream available on the PDI bus.
Until we get the B3SU, it's tough to determine how/what the Base3 is updating with the Cab3.
MartyE and TrackerJohn, thanks for the replies. Good advice and frankly, it's reassuring knowing that I was not alone! TrackerJohn, I'm not sure I understand "reboot the host device". Is the 'host device' the Base3? In any event, I learned a lesson. I'll not hook up my LCS WiFi while using the Base3/Cab3.
Host device is your iOS or Android tablet or phone. A restart ensures the Cab3 App isn't retaining bad data from the previous session.
I'm pondering how Lionel is storing data and the logic that goes with it. The original Cab1 Base just transmits whatever the Cab1 handheld sends out as the track signal and echoes commands out its serial port. Simple. The Legacy Base added databases so settings are persistent across sessions and shared with multiple Cab2s as the Cab2s get refreshed by the base. The Cab2 has extensive logic that controls the commands it sends to the base for transmission as the track signal. (Replicating that logic is one reason I doubt we'll ever see a 3rd party Cab2 hardware replacement.) The Cab2 also retains configuration data and (TBD) data related to previous sessions. The Base3 retains the databases and the Cab3 App has data caches stored on the host device. The Cab3 App, once launched, retains cached data (such as a corrupted roster) until the App is forced to stop. Some data is persistent across sessions. Engine photos are an example of persistent data that the App stores on the host device.
Lesson learned: if the Cab3 is behaving strangely, restart the host device and relaunch the App.
Roster glitch? After loading all my engines, accessories and switches, all with photos...the Cab3 App is working flawlessly. I opened the Legacy System Utility and entered all the Accessory and switch data.
Now for the "odd" thing...Rosters. The engine Roster; and Accessory Roster are perfect. The switch Roster will not load Switches 1-3 but loads all other switches. Switches 1-3 when selected display the picture and fire the switches. I've reloaded them, closed and reopened the LSU, didn't fix it. I also closed and reopened the Cab3 App. The last action was to reboot the Base3, switches 1-3 still do not display in the Roster? Odd.
I am still unable to connect the Base 3 to our home network. One thing that I noticed is that our home network SSID contains an apostrophy ‘. When we type this into the network configuration screen on the app the apostrophy disappears. Could this be interfering with the connection?
@amtrack5899 posted:I am still unable to connect the Base 3 to our home network. One thing that I noticed is that our home network SSID contains an apostrophy ‘. When we type this into the network configuration screen on the app the apostrophy disappears. Could this be interfering with the connection?
Yes more than likely would be something lionel would need to fix in there software and connection protocol.
@Putnam Division posted:We had a great time testing out multiple engines/engine configurations. It is always good to have knowledgeable people around you when you are trying things out!
Here are a few pics from our session…… we also did discover a Legacy RS-11 that responded to Legacy commands but lost all sounds; a LionChief Polar Express Berk that responded to the LC App but had no sounds; and, an Alaska 0-6-0 LionChief 2.0 that responds to the LionChief App but will not program for TMCC.
The Santa Fe is the K-Line by Lionel engine that will not work with the Cab 3 App, but works with the Cab 2 remote and the Cab 1L.
Peter
Peter,
I can confirm that many original TMCC and ERR based locomotive units have this issue. Power master units are also affected. Has to do with throttle signaling. They are working on it!
For now, build your roster information and program them using Cab3 app, then use the Cab2 and 1L remotes to control those units/lashups.
Until the Cab3 gets an update on the throttle commands, a workaround is connect a Cab1 system (via a null modem and SER2) to the Base3. The Cab1 uses relative throttle commands to increase/decrease speed that the Base3 sends out on the track signal.
The Cab3 App currently sends absolute speed commands, so instead of "increase relative speed +1", the engine receives "set absolute speed = 1". Lionel is aware of this so we must wait for an App update.
I encourage everyone that has found a bug or abnormality to send it to TalkToUS@lionel.com if you haven't already. Make sure your subject has a good keywork so that it makes it to Dave's team. Also include your phone type and what operating system it's at. Be as detailed as you can be when explaining the issue. The more information they have the faster they can fix these issues.
I would also encourage you to be respectful and professional in your email. As frustrating as some of these issues are, being belligerent and rude will not help us get these issues ironed out.
One enhancement I'd like to see added is a hold delay for the couplers. We had someone accidentally decouple a consist while operating on the mainline while picking up his phone.
@H1000 posted:One enhancement I'd like to see added is a hold delay for the couplers. We had someone accidentally decouple a consist while operating on the mainline while picking up his phone.
Perhaps that could have a selectable hold time like I proposed for "Halt". 0, 1, 2 selectable by the user. Good idea.
@H1000 posted:One enhancement I'd like to see added is a hold delay for the couplers. We had someone accidentally decouple a consist while operating on the mainline while picking up his phone.
This is bound to be an ongoing issue if you are attempting to use your phone for other tasks while running trains with it.
Base 3 using Bluetooth utilizes Stock Images of your engine while in operation. Why can’t the Base 3 do so using BASE3. Yes I know I can take a photo, but apparently the stock photo is out there so let me have it!!!! Please.
@Alabama Joe posted:Base 3 using Bluetooth utilizes Stock Images of your engine while in operation. Why can’t the Base 3 do so using BASE3. Yes I know I can take a photo, but apparently the stock photo is out there so let me have it!!!! Please.
I suspect this is because there is no feedback communication from the engine to the BASE3/CAB3L unless you have a sensor track installed. When you use the CAB3B app, the engine can communicate back to the app and give specific details about what the engine is and/or the App can lookup the engine details via an internet connection from Lionel.
Now here's another idea for loading an engine into the CAB3L app. After you add the engine number to the CAB3L app, Lionel could print a QR code on the bottom of the engine and box. Then scan the QR code which would fill in all of the information, operating details about the engine, and default picture similar to the process of the CAB3b Bluetooth & Sensor track. This would be very cheap to implement and make configuring new engines into the app as easy as a snap.
@H1000 posted:I suspect this is because there is no feedback communication from the engine to the BASE3/CAB3L unless you have a sensor track installed. When you use the CAB3B app, the engine can communicate back to the app and give specific details about what the engine is and/or the App can lookup the engine details via an internet connection from Lionel.
Now here's another idea for loading an engine into the CAB3L app. After you add the engine number to the CAB3L app, Lionel could print a QR code on the bottom of the engine and box. Then scan the QR code which would fill in all of the information, operating details about the engine, and default picture similar to the process of the CAB3b Bluetooth & Sensor track. This would be very cheap to implement and make configuring new engines into the app as easy as a snap.
That is a good feature idea!
@H1000 posted:I suspect this is because there is no feedback communication from the engine to the BASE3/CAB3L unless you have a sensor track installed. When you use the CAB3B app, the engine can communicate back to the app and give specific details about what the engine is and/or the App can lookup the engine details via an internet connection from Lionel.
Now here's another idea for loading an engine into the CAB3L app. After you add the engine number to the CAB3L app, Lionel could print a QR code on the bottom of the engine and box. Then scan the QR code which would fill in all of the information, operating details about the engine, and default picture similar to the process of the CAB3b Bluetooth & Sensor track. This would be very cheap to implement and make configuring new engines into the app as easy as a snap.
I love this. It would be a great way to get the default information into the Base3, serving the same purpose as the old orange modules.
What I'd also love to see is the ability to either upload an existing picture, or reference a URL to download a picture and have it added to the database. I'd love to see a community like this be able to contribute to a common pool of images you could choose from. I'm thinking of something like those websites that let you choose cover art for a music collection, where you can pick from different art styles or designs to suit your taste.
There's seemingly very little that the community can provide currently (other than information and experience, like these forums) that is for the benefit of the whole community. Give me the ability to "theme" the Cab3 app. Give me the ability to create collections of images with color-coded background to help people who can't always see the tiny little pictures on their phone. Our phones are super-computers connected to satellites in space, let us use them to do amazing things with our control systems!
@ToledoEd posted:Roster glitch? After loading all my engines, accessories and switches, all with photos...the Cab3 App is working flawlessly. I opened the Legacy System Utility and entered all the Accessory and switch data.
Now for the "odd" thing...Rosters. The engine Roster; and Accessory Roster are perfect. The switch Roster will not load Switches 1-3 but loads all other switches. Switches 1-3 when selected display the picture and fire the switches. I've reloaded them, closed and reopened the LSU, didn't fix it. I also closed and reopened the Cab3 App. The last action was to reboot the Base3, switches 1-3 still do not display in the Roster? Odd.
I just sent this email with these similar issues. Other than the known brake slider bug, the engine side of the app works fine.
Has anyone else experienced this?
“All my Fastrack switches are remote wired. I tried programming a couple switches with the app and had a few glitches. You may be aware of these already, but this is what I found.
The switch roster wouldn’t show any programmed switch after #9 even though it was written to the base. I could still operate the programmed switch after the number was entered manually.
At times after opening the app, the switch roster wouldn’t show any switches but would have one generic engine picture. Also at another time, it would show only one switch. Again, any switch would operate by entering the programmed switch #.
I’m using an iPhone 15 with iOS 17.6.1”
Gene
Here's the info I sent to Talktous@lionel.com :
Wondering if anyone else has seen the same issue:
I am greatly enjoying the Base3 / Cab3! And appreciate all of the work that has gone and is going into this amazing control system!
Perhaps this issue is already known:
My setup:
I have an AMC (accessory motor controller) connected to a SER2 that is connected to the Base3 using a PDI cable to LCS1 on the Base3
Accessory programmed as “ENG 9” in Cab1 mode.
Works fine with Legacy (Cab2) controller but not with Cab3.
When first addressed with Cab3 APP (using either an iPhone 13 or iPad mini 2) Base3 indicates activity then goes blank and accessory motor does not work.
Does anyone know where the locomotive photos are stored? I ask because I loaded all of my locomotive photos using Cab3 APP on my iPad mini. When I opened the Cab3 App on my iPhone13 none of the photos appeared. If stored on the device, then is there a way to transfer from device to device @Dave Olson or @MartyE? Thanks!!
@stangtrain posted:Does anyone know where the locomotive photos are stored? I ask because I loaded all of my locomotive photos using Cab3 APP on my iPad mini. When I opened the Cab3 App on my iPhone13 none of the photos appeared. If stored on the device, then is there a way to transfer from device to device @Dave Olson or @MartyE? Thanks!!
It's been discussed previously, the photos are stored on the device the CAB3 is installed on. I'm sure there would be a way to extract them, but no one has come up with it yet.
@stangtrain posted:Does anyone know where the locomotive photos are stored? I ask because I loaded all of my locomotive photos using Cab3 APP on my iPad mini. When I opened the Cab3 App on my iPhone13 none of the photos appeared. If stored on the device, then is there a way to transfer from device to device @Dave Olson or @MartyE? Thanks!!
They are stored on the device. There is no storage capability in the Base3 to store pictures. I would suspect this would just over complicate it and require more hardware.
@cbojanower posted:It's been discussed previously, the photos are stored on the device the CAB3 is installed on. I'm sure there would be a way to extract them, but no one has come up with it yet.
It could be as simple as using the file manager and finding the graphics. They're likely to be stored as discrete files.
Thanks @cbojanower, @MartyE!
@gunrunnerjohn : this will be interesting to see if Lionel can provide a way to have the images transferred from the APP on one device to the APP on another.
@stangtrain posted:Thanks @cbojanower, @MartyE!
@gunrunnerjohn : this will be interesting to see if Lionel can provide a way to have the images transferred from the APP on one device to the APP on another.
Hmm... Good point, I wonder how all that will work. I hadn't really thought about multiple devices...
I don't know how many people are aware of this but Lionel's iCab app lets you load engine photos into your roster, automatically transfers those photos into storage on the Legacy base, and then syncs them with other devices operating iCab. I entered my photos into an iPhone 7 and they have synced to an iphone 8, iphone 11 and iphone 15. Whenever I add a new device, the photos immediately load when it syncs with the Legacy base. This is a program that's about 10 years old.
If the cutting edge Base3 / CAB3 combo can't perform to that standard, it is a big step backwards.
Attachments
Images (1)
@GregR posted:
I don't know how many people are aware of this but Lionel's iCab app lets you load engine photos into your roster, automatically transfers those photos into storage on the Legacy base, and then syncs them with other devices operating iCab. I entered my photos into an iPhone 7 and they have synced to an iphone 8, iphone 11 and iphone 15. Whenever I add a new device, the photos immediately load when it syncs with the Legacy base. This is a program that's about 10 years old.
If the cutting edge Base3 / CAB3 combo can't perform to that standard, it is a big step backwards.
Those look like stock images from Lionel vs. Pictures snapped from a camera.
I suspect this is happening on the iPhone level and not via the Legacy Base. @Railsounds could probably confirm this since he was heavily involved with this.
@MartyE posted:I suspect this is happening on the iPhone level and not via the Legacy Base. @Railsounds could probably confirm this since he was heavily involved with this.
I concur and if the iCab can do it, the functionality can be added to CAB3.
The problem is that there is only limited storage in the Base 2 or 3. Images are large, without an upgrade to memory it would fill quickly
@MartyE posted:I suspect this is happening on the iPhone level and not via the Legacy Base. @Railsounds could probably confirm this since he was heavily involved with this.
I originally downloaded those stock images to my iPhone 7 and saved them to Photos. I loaded them into iCab, synced with the Legacy base, and then deleted those same photos off my phone. Those photos were not synced via iCloud or any other cloud service to any other devices. My iPhone 7 got destroyed in a swimming pool.
Then I got an iPhone 8. There were no photos on that phone. I installed iCab and the instant it downloaded data from the Legacy base, the photos appeared.
As I got newer phones, the same synching behavior occurred.
@GregR posted:I orignally downloaded those stock images to my iPhone 7 and saved them to Photos. I loaded them into iCab, synced with the Legacy base, and then deleted those same photos off my phone. Those photos were not synced via iCloud or any other cloud service to any other devices. My iPhone 7 got destroyed in a swimming pool.
Then I got an iPhone 8. There were no photos on that phone. I installed iCab and the instant it downloaded data from the Legacy base, the photos appeared.
Was the phone backed up? If it backed up iCab then it backed up the images associated with them.
I guess anything is possible but it doesn't seem probable.
