Lionel PRR H10 (New '18 Legacy)

BobbyD posted:

NSDTrains posted:

I personally don’t care about 100% prototypical accuracy on my layout so a swinging bell would be more of a plus for me even if it is out of place. However I realize there are definitely some people on this forum that would refuse to buy this item if it had a swinging bell because it is inaccurate. To each their own I guess. I was already eyeing up this engine before I even knew about the potential swinging bell.

I'm confused.

The real engine did not have a swinging bell?

Purchasers of the scale model want it to be incorrectly produced with one?

As someone committed to it, I'd love to have both the bell and smoking whistle.

BobbyD posted:

NSDTrains posted:

I personally don’t care about 100% prototypical accuracy on my layout so a swinging bell would be more of a plus for me even if it is out of place. However I realize there are definitely some people on this forum that would refuse to buy this item if it had a swinging bell because it is inaccurate. To each their own I guess. I was already eyeing up this engine before I even knew about the potential swinging bell.

I'm confused.

The real engine did not have a swinging bell?

Purchasers of the scale model want it to be incorrectly produced with one?

As previously noted the PRR family of 20th century "standard" steamers (A5, B6, C1, CC2, E6, G5, H6, H8, H9, H10, I1, J1, K4, L1, M1, N1, Q2, T1) were equipped with bells rung in a stationary position by an internal air driven clapper.  Should the air clapper fail, there was provision to temporarily swing the bell using a clip on rope.  I have the PRR bell from L1s 8197 and can testify as to how hard it is to swing it using a rope. 

I can appreciate many modelers want fidelity to the prototype.  I'm not that concerned, as long as I think it looks good. (of course it needs to run good and sound good too)    The Western Allegheny version caught my eye because I live within 10 miles of the old Western Allegheny, and have B&LE models of the F7 A-B set that ran on the same tracks into the '90s.  I am seriously making an order, though this would be the most expensive engine I have bought.  I'm one of the guys who takes the older models off folks hands when they upgrade to the latest and greatest.    I really don't care if it has a swinging bell or not, and I don't run smoke indoors because it messes with my wife's asthma.  All that said, I will be interested to see what Dave and Company come up with on the bell.

Thank you everyone for the great information!!!

Keystoned Ed posted:

 

As previously noted the PRR family of 20th century "standard" steamers (A5, B6, C1, CC2, E6, G5, H6, H8, H9, H10, I1, J1, K4, L1, M1, N1, Q2, T1) were equipped with bells rung in a stationary position by an internal air driven clapper.  Should the air clapper fail, there was provision to temporarily swing the bell using a clip on rope.  I have the PRR bell from L1s 8197 and can testify as to how hard it is to swing it using a rope. 

 

 

Lionel cataloged two different tenders.  One with a backup light and high sloped coal sides and the other with marker lights..    Anyone know if the tender with marker lights pictured with the #1288 H10 is accurate?

Joe 

CAPPilot posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

I personally prefer the West tender than the 'short-stack' one, ...

So do I.  However, I did find a picture of H9s Cab #1744, a rebuilt H8, with the "short-stack" tender so I'm good with it.  

Heres a photo of one thats dated 1949 with the short tender. ( more can be seen here if you scroll down: Pennsy Steam photos) 

My question is. Why the jump in cab numbers. Many photos of these are cab numbers 5000-7000's

JC642 posted:

Lionel cataloged two different tenders.  One with a backup light and high sloped coal sides and the other with marker lights..    Anyone know if the tender with marker lights pictured with the #1288 H10 is accurate?

Joe 

 With a google search It appears marker lights are accurate. This photo shows a backup light as well. There are more photos at the link I posted above.

Others look like they may lack a backup light:

I wish Lionel would drop the "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high sided tender and Just offer it in "Pennsylvania".

RickO posted:

I wish Lionel would drop the "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high sided tender and Just offer it in "Pennsylvania".

Well...

Rusty

RickO posted:

I wish Lionel would drop the "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high sided tender and Just offer it in "Pennsylvania".

Rusty Traque posted:

RickO posted:

I wish Lionel would drop the "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high sided tender and Just offer it in "Pennsylvania".

Well...

Rusty

If you are modeling the early 1900s then this configuration would be good, especially with the headlight mount.  For post WWII modelers "Pennsylvania" and a high mount would be better.  I still would prefer the high side tender.

WOW - awesome amount of PRR expertise on this thread! At least 50% more than I needed to know! LOL!

Arthur posted:

BobbyD posted:

NSDTrains posted:

I personally don’t care about 100% prototypical accuracy on my layout so a swinging bell would be more of a plus for me even if it is out of place. However I realize there are definitely some people on this forum that would refuse to buy this item if it had a swinging bell because it is inaccurate. To each their own I guess. I was already eyeing up this engine before I even knew about the potential swinging bell.

I'm confused.

The real engine did not have a swinging bell?

Purchasers of the scale model want it to be incorrectly produced with one?

As previously noted the PRR family of 20th century "standard" steamers (A5, B6, C1, CC2, E6, G5, H6, H8, H9, H10, I1, J1, K4, L1, M1, N1, Q2, T1) were equipped with bells rung in a stationary position by an internal air driven clapper.  Should the air clapper fail, there was provision to temporarily swing the bell using a clip on rope.  I have the PRR bell from L1s 8197 and can testify as to how hard it is to swing it using a rope. 

Here's a shot of a PRR 2-8-0 with swinging bell...

joe
prr-s1875n.jpg (1000×505)

"Never say never" ?  WINK!

JC642 posted:

Arthur posted:

BobbyD posted:

NSDTrains posted:

I personally don’t care about 100% prototypical accuracy on my layout so a swinging bell would be more of a plus for me even if it is out of place. However I realize there are definitely some people on this forum that would refuse to buy this item if it had a swinging bell because it is inaccurate. To each their own I guess. I was already eyeing up this engine before I even knew about the potential swinging bell.

I'm confused.

The real engine did not have a swinging bell?

Purchasers of the scale model want it to be incorrectly produced with one?

As previously noted the PRR family of 20th century "standard" steamers (A5, B6, C1, CC2, E6, G5, H6, H8, H9, H10, I1, J1, K4, L1, M1, N1, Q2, T1) were equipped with bells rung in a stationary position by an internal air driven clapper.  Should the air clapper fail, there was provision to temporarily swing the bell using a clip on rope.  I have the PRR bell from L1s 8197 and can testify as to how hard it is to swing it using a rope. 

Here's a shot of a PRR 2-8-0 with swinging bell...

joe
prr-s1875n.jpg (1000×505)

Is that the engine Lionel is producing? Or another model?

BobbyD posted:

JC642 posted:

Here's a shot of a PRR 2-8-0 with swinging bell...

joe
prr-s1875n.jpg (1000×505)

Is that the engine Lionel is producing? Or another model?

It is an H6.  The caption states it is cab #1875, an H6a.  Built 1901-05, it was probably gone by 1934 because it was not superheated.  Maybe these very early H6 engines had bells activated by a rope?

Update:

Finished the design. The swinging bell does fit, so this engine will have that functionality. One of my favorite features, so this is exciting.

For those who do not like this feature, we will be adding a provision in the code to disable it when programming the engine. The manual will explain how to do it.

The engine will also have the whistle steam smoke. With the small size of the loco, we had to put in two separate smoke units instead of our double unit, so the whistle will be removable to fill that smoke and the stack smoke will be refillable through the stack as usual.

A few other small notes:

• both versions of the tender will have a backup light and marker lamps.
• both tenders have scale coupler compatibility. Loco will ship with dummy scale and a separate dummy O gauge coupler.
• the frame/running gear is indeed from the Harriman 2-8-0. A very smooth and reliable drive-train.

Let me know if you have any questions.

@Dave Olson thanks for the update! The tender out of the box will feature a electro coupler? And in the box will be a dummy scale and o gauge coupler correct? 

Sounds great, Dave!  I would buy regardless, but I'll take the swinging bell.  Two smoke units work for me too!  Thank you!

Dave Olson posted:

Update:

Finished the design. The swinging bell does fit, so this engine will have that functionality. One of my favorite features, so this is exciting.

For those who do not like this feature, we will be adding a provision in the code to disable it when programming the engine. The manual will explain how to do it.

The engine will also have the whistle steam smoke. With the small size of the loco, we had to put in two separate smoke units instead of our double unit, so the whistle will be removable to fill that smoke and the stack smoke will be refillable through the stack as usual.

A few other small notes:

• both versions of the tender will have a backup light and marker lamps.
• both tenders have scale coupler compatibility. Loco will ship with dummy scale and a separate dummy O gauge coupler.
• the frame/running gear is indeed from the Harriman 2-8-0. A very smooth and reliable drive-train.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Outstanding!

Dave, any chance the die could be changed to add the 'step pilot?'

Awesome!!!! I'm in! thanks Dave!

Dave,

     Thanks for the update. I placed my pre-order this morning for the Pennsy Lines engine. My pre-order did not depend on the swinging bell but it is a great plus to an already great deal. Also thanks for answering my email earlier this week so quickly.

JohnB

TMCC version is affordable but I enjoy this beefed up model. These were seen on the Bel Del quite frequently with the iron ore and coal trains going up and down the line.

Dave Olson posted:

Update:

Finished the design. The swinging bell does fit, so this engine will have that functionality. One of my favorite features, so this is exciting.

For those who do not like this feature, we will be adding a provision in the code to disable it when programming the engine. The manual will explain how to do it.

The engine will also have the whistle steam smoke. With the small size of the loco, we had to put in two separate smoke units instead of our double unit, so the whistle will be removable to fill that smoke and the stack smoke will be refillable through the stack as usual.

A few other small notes:

• both versions of the tender will have a backup light and marker lamps.
• both tenders have scale coupler compatibility. Loco will ship with dummy scale and a separate dummy O gauge coupler.
• the frame/running gear is indeed from the Harriman 2-8-0. A very smooth and reliable drive-train.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Excellent Dave!

Thanks!

I'm in for this one

Johnsgg1 posted:

Dave, any chance the die could be changed to add the 'step pilot?'

Johnsgg1 posted:

Dave, any chance the die could be changed to add the 'step pilot?'

If the frame/running gear is from the Harriman released two years ago , that engine had the step pilot. I don't see why it couldn't be implemented.     In any case, I "WILL" be preordering this engine..  Sounds like it'll be a real nice piece that is  priced right.....   Too bad, If that PRR E6 from the last catalog had the swinging bell I would have ordered it too...

Joe

Dave,

This is excellent news. Per chance, will the engine be marketed as an H10 or an H9 since it seems to share more attributes, including cab numbers, with the H9 configuration?

Thanks again 

Dave, will this locomotive have the full RCMC electronics package and not the troublesome back-EMF setup?  That's all that stands in the way of my buying it.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dave, will this locomotive have the full RCMC electronics package and not the troublesome back-EMF setup?  That's all that stands in the way of my buying it.

Good question I would like to know too.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dave, will this locomotive have the full RCMC electronics package and not the troublesome back-EMF setup?  That's all that stands in the way of my buying it.

From Dave himself from another thread last March...

"There will be no more O Scale Legacy engines with a BEMC. That's a promise."

and from last August...

"As stated before, no O scale Legacy engine will again. Either the RCMC fits in or it won't be made."

@Dave Olson  Thanks for all of the info to this point.

One last thing ( from me anyway)

The Pennsylvania Lines West version, with "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high side tender.

Is there any chance that could be changed that to just "Pennsylvania" on the high side tender for production?

It seems this loco is too late of a prototype for the " Lines" lettering.

From what I've seen. heard, and read, for this era, Pennsy west locos had only the "Pennsylvania" logo on the tender, like the rest of the railroad at that time.

Dave Olson posted:

Update:

Finished the design. The swinging bell does fit, so this engine will have that functionality. One of my favorite features, so this is exciting.

For those who do not like this feature, we will be adding a provision in the code to disable it when programming the engine. The manual will explain how to do it.

The engine will also have the whistle steam smoke. With the small size of the loco, we had to put in two separate smoke units instead of our double unit, so the whistle will be removable to fill that smoke and the stack smoke will be refillable through the stack as usual.

A few other small notes:

• both versions of the tender will have a backup light and marker lamps.
• both tenders have scale coupler compatibility. Loco will ship with dummy scale and a separate dummy O gauge coupler.
• the frame/running gear is indeed from the Harriman 2-8-0. A very smooth and reliable drive-train.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Dave,

  Will the whistle steam and swinging bell operate if running in conventional mode ?

Thank you.

Damm, Dave, I had convinced myself that since I have the 2001 H9 I didn't need another one.  Whistle smoke, backup light, Legacy sound, swinging bell, now I need one.

RickO posted:

@Dave Olson  Thanks for all of the info to this point.

One last thing ( from me anyway)

The Pennsylvania Lines West version, with "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high side tender.

Is there any chance that could be changed that to just "Pennsylvania" on the high side tender for production?

It seems this loco is too late of a prototype for the " Lines" lettering.

From what I've seen. heard, and read, for this era, Pennsy west locos had only the "Pennsylvania" logo on the tender, like the rest of the railroad at that time.

I second what RickO said about the 'Pennsylvania Lines' lettering. I would love to have the opportunity to purchase one with the high side tender and only 'Pennsylvania' lettering. Of course the step pilot would be the icing on the already delicious cake!

Well, having the RCMC, the whistle steam, and the swinging bell make it too tempting to pass up on!

I third what RickO said.

The “Pennsylvania Lines” has been my holdup as well. I really want the high side  tender with just “Pennsylvania”

Trainlover9943 posted:

The tender out of the box will feature a electro coupler? And in the box will be a dummy scale and o gauge coupler correct? 

E/C on tender and separate scale coupler mount. Front of loco has dummy scale installed with included separate O gauge.

Johnsgg1 posted:

Dave, any chance the die could be changed to add the 'step pilot?'

Unfortunately no.

N&W posted:

This is excellent news. Per chance, will the engine be marketed as an H10 or an H9 since it seems to share more attributes, including cab numbers, with the H9 configuration?

The shell and pilot are based on a H9. Too late to change it to a H9 though as it has already been catalogued.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dave, will this locomotive have the full RCMC electronics package and not the troublesome back-EMF setup?  That's all that stands in the way of my buying it.

Correct. No BEMC in O Scale engines.

RickO posted:

@Dave Olson  Thanks for all of the info to this point.

One last thing ( from me anyway)

The Pennsylvania Lines West version, with "Pennsylvania Lines" lettering on the high side tender.

Is there any chance that could be changed that to just "Pennsylvania" on the high side tender for production?

It seems this loco is too late of a prototype for the " Lines" lettering.

From what I've seen. heard, and read, for this era, Pennsy west locos had only the "Pennsylvania" logo on the tender, like the rest of the railroad at that time.

I sent this to Ryan. That's his decision.

Arthur posted:

  Will the whistle steam and swinging bell operate if running in conventional mode ?

Yes

Just adding another vote for the "PENNSYLVANIA" high-sided tender.

I'm still in even with the non-step pilot but please just drop the 'Lines' off of the high-sided tender.

Having the swinging bell, smoking whistle and more at that price point will make this a smash hit for Lionel. Glad I have the set ordered!