Lionel PRR RF-16s, 3RSinated

Beautiful pair Norm. There was a thread awhile back about these and how to close couple the units. We have a pair of the B&O's and really like them. I'm sure someone has worked on the pilot and adding Kadees...

I had seen the Eric's Trains review video he did. Nice engines! And, he did put the Kadees between the two A units. He didn't show how, but yes, he did successfully do it. And, I am sure others have as well. Hopefully, someone that has modified theirs, will make a post here.

I checked out Eric's video for the rear Kadees but it doesn't look like he mounted them to standard height. Like Dave said, it will probably need a monster shim. I found some good rear shots of the A units online but I doubt I will try to fabricate much more than the mounting adapters required to hang the coupler. The bulk of the work will be trying to fix the pilots and mounting Kadees in there.

 

I do like the way they run and sound!

Norm, Very likely you will have to lower the shells to scale height. It's a pain ,but really worth it. If these have the early truck mounts you can take out some screws and accomplish it. There is a post somewhere on the F units. If it is the new drives then the body posts are the way to go. Good luck!

 

Ron H

Thanks Dave. I take it you didn't mess with the pilots then? 

I think I bought that NYC E unit from you Dave - it was too high to fit with anything I had and didn't want to tackle the process of lowering it so on it went.... 

Good info. I am trying to decide how much time I want to spend on these. They couple up in two different zip codes so fixing that would be the first thing. They also seem to ride a bit high but I'm not sure that's really bugging me. The real work will be fixing the pilots in a way that allows me to take the things apart for repairs, etc. I'm wondering how badly the big holes for the fatty couplers will bug me once the Kadees are in there. I guess I could close the front pilot but I like the look of it open with a coupler sticking out of it.

So far, with my E's and F's that I have converted, I screwed the pilot to the frame, so the shell still comes off the same way for repairs. I screw the Kadee into the pilot only, and then the pilot to the frame. It doesn't restrict the shell coming off, but you can also unscrew the pilot if needed. Lowering them could be a real hassle, depending on the type of drive those have...ie Lion Drive

These units are on the list, and I'll get around to them soon enough.

But I wanted to get the hood units done before tackling the cab units, ahem, thanks LOS! That didn't happen.

So it looks like I'll be pulling out the sharks to take a look. I have some ideas but...

I have the GP7s just about wrapped up (that should keep you busy for a while, Norm), and then the Lionel SD40, oh and then the Atlas Geeps. Matt Jackson is helping me out with the MTH hood units by reworking some of my spacers for his GP30, which should plug into the rest of the lineup, like my 35.

Looks like I'm printing some GP7 kits to keep you guys busy.

Thanks,
Mario

PS-Norm, go grab a set of the TMCC NYC F3s and that'll keep you busy until I can get the Legacy Geeps done.

Just for the record, I really don't like you guys. You throw monkey wrenches in my gears like bread at ducks.

I was looking at the frames of the Legacy sharks on Lionel.com and it looks like the Liondrive mounting plate mounts to the top of the frame, like the the retaining ring of the TMCC F3s.

If this is true, it could be as easy to drop the frame and body, and then mount the pilot the bottom, just like LOS did in the "Lowering Lionel F3s" thread.

Here's my experiments with lowering the B unit. I flipped the lock plate to the top of the frame, then raised the truck pivot using the washers from the lock plate. I don't know if this will work on the powered unit. Here's some quick shots showing the difference. The front is still the stock setup. For those not familiar with Lionel diesels, these are the removable trucks they have been using for a while now. Also notice the cast frame.

 

Oh darn.

Now I have to do this first... It's go to be just like the Fs.

Thanks, Norm

Like I said earlier, I'm not sure the ride height is that awful. I just thought I'd spend a few minutes on it since I started disassembling these today. Depending on how things go with the powered A, I might not be getting much in the way of a lowered ride height.

 

At least I can clean out the smoke fluid while I have them apart...

I was thinking, by looking of how thin the gap is between the pilot and the frame, it's not going to take much to drop the whole thing enough to not need a spacer between them. Which would simplify the pilot installation greatly.

Can't wait to see them done.

I am OK with the height of the pilot off the rail. Maybe if I drop the body everything will meet in the middle. Hmm. I will experiment a bit today since I don't want to start another major scenery project for a bit. I'd like to come up with a plan today since I am back on the road starting tomorrow for a work trip to the east coast...

There is a great pic of the front pilot on the back page of Pennys in the Steel City.

Norm , If you drop it enough to meet the pilot without shimming the pilot, then, as Doug mentioned, the rest is pretty easy. You may only need to do A units only.

 

Ron

Like you, I'm mid-B unit as we speak.

PS - Norm, did you get the Atlas speaker spacers in yet?

A closed pilot looks pretty nice, actually. See pages 250, 253, and 257 in Pennsy Power II. More than one style of doing so, too. Your call.

 

Have fun. 

 

Bob

Sorry guys, I meant unpowered A unit.

 

Mario, yes I installed the Atlas F2 fuel tank spacers and installed the rest of the Atlas fake Kadees on both As. I never installed the fixie on the dummy A so  took care of that too. I was going to post about it but they are on the backburner while I wait on some replacement rear stirrup steps from Atlas. They look much better now thanks to your nice parts. I will weather them and give them occasional trackage rights when I finish the Sharks.

 

How long is it taking to print these parts? Just wondering about the technology you're using in general. I always thought it was better suited to making masters and molds as opposed to running multiples of parts. I don't know, maybe they are fast and cheap enough now to run small batches.

The fuel tank spacers take about 6 minutes. The others a little longer.

I'm going for flexibility rather than speed.

That's a lot faster than I thought, that's not bad at all Mario. I was thinking some parts may take a few hours or longer.

 

I don't think I can really lower these beasts unless I do some serious grinding on the frames. Flipping the plates definitely didn't help the powered A. I am thinking these things could stand to come down 3/32". I may have to live with the stock ride height.

 

I started playing with the pilots a bit. I wanted to see what it would take to make the opening smaller. I had to grind off the hose mount then I filled it in with thick styrene scraps from my junk box. Too bad the opening is now too small. Maybe this will be the closed one for the front A.

 

 

At this point, it's time to put these aside until I get back from my road trip...

Looks great Norm! I haven't had the courage to fill in the pilot and sand, but yours will be awesome.

For the powered A I didn't adjust the plate, but did put a washer between the motor retaining ring and the plate.  This allowed the retaining ring to sit down on the truck top, and lowered it a bit. About 0.025".

It could stand to come down more but at this point the frame is 0.025" above the wheel flanges, so that's about it for dropping the frame.

I have a spare body, so I tried to modify it to get it to sit down over the frame, but that didn't get me anywhere because there are more than just the screws holding the body in place off the frame. Maybe I'll revisit that today.

I was in San Diego all last week, and had a chance to meet up with LOS, which is cool. Where are you off to this week?

Thanks,
Mario

Here's the shot of he powered A, just like the non-powered units, you can see where I put the washer in. Same as yours.

Ok, Here we go...

After using a washer to raise the retaining ring / motor mount, I fixed the pilot right to the underside of the frame. I did this with the body in place. It can stand to be slightly lower as it looks high, but it is the same height as the Lionel F3's pilot.

The non-powered B is done, and the powered B is next.



I used the existing pilot mounting holes and tabs on the pilot that normally attaches to the truck to screw into the frame. I'll get some pictures when I put the Kadees on.  I also painted the pilot using the special mix that I had done at a local auto paint store, and had them put into a spray can. It should match the sheen better than the stock factory pilot color.

Thanks,
Mario

After painting...


Thanks,
Mario

Got this off'n the Internet. Your pilot is a hair high, but not bad at all!

 

Rex, I agree... They're about 0.025" too high as compared to the F3, and I'd love to lower it more.

 

I can lower the frame any more because there's only about the same distance between the tops of the wheels and the frame already; so scratch that.

 

I have an extra shell that I tried lowering down over the frame, but that's a no go because the nose and tail actually are recessed into the shell, and it would require cutting the thick frame to snug it down.

 

So, I'm just going to have to live with it for now; I'm overlooking a lot of other things, why not add this to the list.  Close enough.

 

Thanks for the kind words; I hope this inspires others to do the same.

 

Sincerely,

Mario

Good works Mario. I think I may have figured out how to lower the powered trucks even more. I fooled with them for a bit last night after I got in from my quite hellacious road trip to and from Maryland.

 

I flipped the lock plates to the top of the frame again, then raised the motor with two washers. I think this may work but I will have to cut a lot of metal off the front trucks to clear the pilots. I will take some pics later today. I was worried about the motor/drive engagement but it actually seems OK.

Norm how bout the wheel flanges clearing everything once it's lowered that much?

Not too worried about clearing the flanges, there's a ton of meat on these truck assemblies. My next thing to check is the motor and flywheel clearances in the shell. I already have to futz with the cab interior assembly if I go with this method. I am going to drag myself into the workshop after I get some more coffee intake. I am taking today off to work on the layout, it's been a long week.

Norm,

 

Glad you're back from the road... I'm out again on it for the next two weeks; Cleveland next week and Grand Rapids the week after.

 

While you have it apart, take the time to do the cab interior...

 

I rushed mine, and I bet you can do better (LaidOffSick... I see your fabulous F3s and raise you a painted / detailed cab!)

 

I can't wait to see your pictures; especially lowering and weathering.

 

Thanks,

Mario

 

Very nice, what color did you use Mario? Grand Rapids is awesome. Be sure to go to Brewery Vivant if you like a nice beer or several. I am staying home for at least a couple weeks but I am supposed to go to Boston at some point then Malaysia.

I used Krylon Ultra-flat Camouflage Woodland light green. 

I could be a happy little camper if I can get this setup work. I have to grind down the heat sink screws behind the fuel tank a bit to let the rear truck swing. I took out the smoke unit manifold since I won't be running it anyway. I think it could be modded a bit if someone wanted to keep it though. I got the pilot opening where I want it.

 

 

Here's the diff between the stock and modded ride heights on the unpowered A. So far I don't think I have to grind more off the front truck. I am not too sure about the rear until I get into setting up the couplers.

 

 

Wow, you're interior looks way different than mine (I have a first gen), and a lot less cramped.

 

See when I move my plate to the top of the frame, the wheels hit the bottom of the frame; even on my non-powered B (no electronics at all!), its just a flat plate.

 

Hmmm... interesting.

 

Thanks,

Mario.

Is yours a TMCC one?