Lionel's New Theater Car

It bears repeating that the input from Lionel (in the person of Ryan, Rudy or anyone else with information) is very welcome and reassuring at a time of misgivings over QC and indeed future production.

It would be equally welcome to have production sample photos posted here or Lionel's Facebook page - anywhere that customers can access them to see what's in the pipeline. (3rd Rail does this on a regular basis, MTH too sometimes.) I can't get to York this time around so sight of the photos would be a big plus in my case.

A while back, photos and a movie of the Legacy cab forwards (Daylight version) were posted here, which I think must have made no small difference to the success of the product. I'm just sayin' . . .

The wifi cam sounds great.  Most new tvs now offer wifi.  Will this then be able to be viewed directly from my home wifi tower?  Assuming it is in range.  Wish for an 18 inch car but maybe it can be transferred to a shorter car.  Will have one (UP) in this year's budget. 

J Daddy posted:

Well there you go guys. Cannot wait to see it at York! I am ordering one for sure.

Love the idea of a reasonable WiFi camera far more then having to buy it in a limited use overly expensive 21" passenger car to big for my layout.     I'll wait for WiFi caboose or in something I can push ahead of the train..     In the meantime, for the very few times over the years I've had the urge to see my layout on TV I'll rely on the Kline TV station car to do the job.    joe

I will most likely order the UP-flavored version of this car despite it's inaccurate details and a lack of enthusiasm for the camera feature. It's a fun feature and I get it, but I would be happier if it were offered sans-camera. By the time this thing is delivered, that technology will probably be obsolete...

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

And since we're talking a bit about mismatched cars, there's Amtrak's "Beach Grove" which too would need all new tooling.

Not necessarily...Beech Grove is basically a modified Amfleet car. Lionel already has tooling for Amfleets from the HHP-8 set (and add-on sets that were cataloged a year or two later), all you'd have to do is make a new end part and it would be somewhat accurate. I know there are some here that don't like those cars because of their quasi scale-not so scale proportions, but I for one think they were great. More need to be made.

The camera - The wi-fi camera will be mounted in the isle between the seats inside the back of the car. We have tested this on a 3-D printed mock up in our office and the view is awesome! The camera is also very inconspicuous when looking at the car from the outside. You do not need the Lionel wi-fi module to use this car. The app is a stand-alone download. Put the car on your layout, download the app and away you go. If you can connect your tv or monitor to your pc, you can watch your layout on the big screen. Picture quality is really great and as long as the wi-fi signal was strong, we could enjoy the view from all over the office. I think you'll have a lot of fun with these.

I am a little confused. Download an app on your phone or tablet, but use your PC to display on a big screen? So is there a software program for your PC that can be downloaded to use instead of phone or tablet app?

The picture quality is good, how about the framerate? Can we expect 30 fps smooth video output with good signal strength?

H1000

I ordered the Norfolk Southern. However, I believe that Lionel has NEVER offered a Norfolk Southern passenger car.   I sure hope the color matches the MTH Norfolk Southern cars otherwise it's going to be a very short train.

Scott Smith

Thanks Ryan. I ordered, cancelled and now plan to 're order the CSX version

Kevin

scott.smith posted:

I ordered the Norfolk Southern. However, I believe that Lionel has NEVER offered a Norfolk Southern passenger car.   I sure hope the color matches the MTH Norfolk Southern cars otherwise it's going to be a very short train.

Scott Smith

 

Scott:

From some of the comments Ryan was making I believe Lionel will be producing Norfolk Southern passenger cars to go with the theater car. 

Neal Jeter

I ordered the UP-going to cut it up and make an accurate version.  Should be a lot of fun.

jdaddy you're a bad influence! HAHA!  Sure you've been told this before!

JC642 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Well there you go guys. Cannot wait to see it at York! I am ordering one for sure.

Love the idea of a reasonable WiFi camera far more then having to buy it in a limited use overly expensive 21" passenger car to big for my layout.     I'll wait for WiFi caboose or in something I can push ahead of the train..     In the meantime, for the very few times over the years I've had the urge to see my layout on TV I'll rely on the Kline TV station car to do the job.    joe

JC642:

I considered the car, mainly for the camera, however, I've since decided it's not worth the cost, if that's my primary reason to buy it. Rather,  I purchased an action cam, GitUp2 ($130 + a microphone) reasoning it  gives me much more flexibility. I simply used a rubber band to attach it to a flatcar and ran it around my layout...also,  just laid it on top of my Acela for a "Pantograph's eye view"...these were just tests. Although the theatre car is pretty cool, I'll pass.

Here's an  example of the quality of the video. Also, the camera is Wifi enabled and can be controlled remotely with an App (GitUp). I use an iPhone.

https://youtu.be/4i49iYeNSYc

I've been testing the camera this week. The frame rate varies between 20-30 fps. 

There's an APP to download on an Android or Apple device. Connects to the camera via WiFi. It's a direct connection from the camera to the device. No internet required. You can also download a PC program to run the camera as well as long as the PC has WiFi compatibility.

I've uploaded a test video of the camera. Excuse my shakey hand. Filmed the CSX F40PH as it was handy on my desk.

We're aiming to have a 3D printed sample of the Theater car at York next month and will likely be streaming the video feed to an iPad or other monitor.

Thanks!

Dave, will you be able to remove the camera from the car for other uses, or is it a permanent install?

ToledoEd posted:

Dave, will you be able to remove the camera from the car for other uses, or is it a permanent install?

It is integrated into the car.

NICE! Glad I preordered my Conrail. I see the F40 doesn't have the incorrect sunken cooling fans like the K-line ones did.

Dave Olson posted:

I've been testing the camera this week. The frame rate varies between 20-30 fps. 

There's an APP to download on an Android or Apple device. Connects to the camera via WiFi. It's a direct connection from the camera to the device. No internet required. You can also download a PC program to run the camera as well as long as the PC has WiFi compatibility.

I've uploaded a test video of the camera. Excuse my shakey hand. Filmed the CSX F40PH as it was handy on my desk.

We're aiming to have a 3D printed sample of the Theater car at York next month and will likely be streaming the video feed to an iPad or other monitor.

Thanks!

The picture quality is very good. It would be nice to see a better framerate but that is much harder (and more costly) to achieve.  Overall the camera looks pretty good, Nice Work!

I think it may be worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that because the camera does not integrate with the LCS wifi app, that users should be aware that using these to apps on the same device may not be advisable.  Beings that the camera runs on an independent wifi network, users will need to disconnect from the LCS wifi (and lose control of their trains) to view the camera. Switching back to the LCS wifi will require user intervention beyond just relaunching the LCS app because they will need to disconnect from the camera wifi and reconnect to the LCS wifi to regain control of the layout.

Any plans to somehow bring the LCS and the camera together (at least on the same wifi network)?

H1000

A phone can connect to only one network at a time, whether wifi or the wireless provider. Most of us will not be using the LCS wifi on our layouts anyway. I recommend a separate 10 inch or larger android or Ipad tablet to show a nice view with the camera.

I preordered one of the theatre cars but got impatient since they will not arrive for some time. I did some searching and found several mini wifi action cameras for model Drones and RC vehicles that work very well attached to a train. I tried the RUNCAM 2, Foxeer Legend 2, and Droneview  wifi cameras.  Their primary use is to record HD video (on a micro SD card in the camera) but they all provide a decent real time wifi link to your phone or tablet.  The wifi link is reduced to probably standard definition quality, rather than the HD video that is being recorded. There is latency and some stuttering of the real time video. The wifi link has limited range (10m) and is not supposed to replace or interfere with the FPV tv link used to fly the drones. The wifi connection can drop out due to interference from other wifi devices causing delays in the picture to the camera. These 3 cameras all require you to connect to a non internet wifi network signal supplied by the camera, in the 2.4 ghz channels 1-12.

Also glad to hear the theatre car camera will display on a PC. I can drag out my Dell Windows laptop with a 15 inch screen that has been gathering dust. The 3 wifi cameras I mentioned only support android or IOS.

I did something similar in using a drone camera however it doesn't use Wi-Fi. I did try a couple of different WiFi type cameras but couldn't stand the stuttering and latency.

I built my most recent camera car using an AOMWAY CMOS 700tvl camera with built-on 200mw 5.8 GHz transmitter. Next thing was to purchase a 5.8 GHz receiver with a standard composite output to a TV of your choosing.  The image quality is pretty good and there is absolutely no stuttering or latency in the image.  The downside is if the signal is interupted you may get some brief static, so throw away the stock antennas and pick up some nice clover style to maximize signal reception. I tested the range to about 150 feet (through a few walls) with reliable image quality.

The camera car is always a hit at the public shows even though it does look a little bit odd and patched together.

H1000

H1000 posted:

I think it may be worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that because the camera does not integrate with the LCS wifi app, that users should be aware that using these to apps on the same device may not be advisable.  Beings that the camera runs on an independent wifi network, users will need to disconnect from the LCS wifi (and lose control of their trains) to view the camera. Switching back to the LCS wifi will require user intervention beyond just relaunching the LCS app because they will need to disconnect from the camera wifi and reconnect to the LCS wifi to regain control of the layout.

 

As many may know, our WiFi box can be a stand alone WiFi network, or can join an existing one. That way you can be connected to the internet or other devices simultaneously.

The camera can do the same. In the APP, the camera can be added to an existing network (I.E. if you have a home LAN) - therefore you can be connected to the camera and LCS/iCab at the same time. Just have to switch between the screens to go from controls to the camera feed.

You can also add a password to the camera when it's connected to a network. This way the neighbors can't sneak a peak at your top secret layout. 

Dave:

Thanks for the additional information. 

Neal Jeter 

Dave Olson posted:

H1000 posted:

I think it may be worth mentioning (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that because the camera does not integrate with the LCS wifi app, that users should be aware that using these to apps on the same device may not be advisable.  Beings that the camera runs on an independent wifi network, users will need to disconnect from the LCS wifi (and lose control of their trains) to view the camera. Switching back to the LCS wifi will require user intervention beyond just relaunching the LCS app because they will need to disconnect from the camera wifi and reconnect to the LCS wifi to regain control of the layout.

 

As many may know, our WiFi box can be a stand alone WiFi network, or can join an existing one. That way you can be connected to the internet or other devices simultaneously.

The camera can do the same. In the APP, the camera can be added to an existing network (I.E. if you have a home LAN) - therefore you can be connected to the camera and LCS/iCab at the same time. Just have to switch between the screens to go from controls to the camera feed.

You can also add a password to the camera when it's connected to a network. This way the neighbors can't sneak a peak at your top secret layout. 

Right on Dave!! Thanks for correcting me. We are only getting sneak peaks and this thing is getting better all the time!

H1000

well its been 9 months enough time to give birth

any idea if this WILL come out next month

Hoping they will have a painted sample at york. 

AlanRail posted:

well its been 9 months enough time to give birth

any idea if this WILL come out next month

That assumes that it is human. Elephants take 18 to 22 months.

That's nothing, some sharks work on a more Atlas-esque schedule, up to 3 1/2 years.

AlanRail posted:

well its been 9 months enough time to give birth

any idea if this WILL come out next month

Not to sound negative, but I'm not holding my breath. 

We're still waiting on the Excursion Train and many other 21" passenger cars...most of which were in the catalog prior to the Theater Cars...

AlanRail posted:

well its been 9 months enough time to give birth

any idea if this WILL come out next month

Next month? Definitely not. The Lionel Shipping Schedule shows them arriving in December. The Charles Ro website, normally a reliable indicator of when main dealers expect to have products in their hands, shows expected availability on 20 December. Frankly I don't expect them to reach customers until the New Year.

Most 21" passenger cars will delivery in December.

The Theater Car will not deliver until next year. We're still getting the camera through FCC testing. Not sure why it's on the shipping schedule.

I'll have to wait for a Southern Pacific or Santa Fe one. 

The Lionel shipping schedule shows September 2018 arrival.

Neal Jeter 

if it says September you wont get it until October . . . maybe.

@Dave Olson Any updates?

According to Ryan Kunkle on the notch6 podcast today the theater cars are shipping from China August 28th along with the rest of the 21" passenger cars.

Neal Jeter  

When will the Theater cars really arrive?  I have detailed my passenger cars and I am eager to see how the Theater cars look inside.

John Rowlen

According to Charlie Ro, the Theater Cars and the full dome are scheduled for October.

Hi everyone 

Stay tuned I currently have the Prototype and I’m going to post pictures and a video. The thread title will be “ A Look at the New Lionel theater car “ hoping to post it today or tomorrow. 

Thanks

Alex 

Thanks Alex, I am looking forward to it.

Neal Jeter 

Whoa, fast forward from a year and half ago!!! I almost forgot I ordered this one. As a matter of fact I took my latest excursion cars put them in a Tupperware bin for Kadee upgrades and have not even run them

Well, I guess its time I get these cars a rollin... may even pull the E7s out of the passenger yard!

Looking forward to it Alex, especially a clip of what the camera shows, thanks!