Lionel service dept changes

Even if this policy is rumor. This post can be a guide dog to the Manufacterers. Look mom no marketing/service research budget.--There were great changes under Mike Regan. Theres nothing wrong with making sure at least some of his changes stay intact with the NC move and the change of guard.

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Fire risks for an appliance, a wheel falling off of a subaru etc, are SAFETY issues that will be recalled and repaired replaced or refunded.

Given the age, mileage, and the noise the bearings were making, I doubt Subaru would be held accountable for an accident caused by a failed wheel bearing. I think they would have easily won a normal wear and tear argument. So I don't agree with the idea that it was a safety issue.  I think it was a customer satisfaction issue.

If people are returning trains that do not need repair then maybe they are too complicated, and/or the manual is poorly written. Do these trains come with a "quick start guide"? Many electronic devices do,

I see this type of policy like this $60 charge more and more.

I have been led to believe charges like these are meant for customers whom, by any rational standard, though malice or ignorance,abuse the good will of a business. 

I have noticed doctors posting signs stating high charges for cancelled apointments. Other business owners have similar policies for not being prepared for a tradesman or repairman, such as forgetting to be home for an appointment.

It may be there are a certain few customers that require company's to have these policies in place ,maybe there are more than a few.

Marty was thinking very "corporate" but I felt his point was, at least partly, that Lionel is, too.

To us Lionel is a company crucial to our beloved hobby, but to them, they are a business in a tough competitive industry that must cut costs and improve efficiency to survive.  The move will put everything under one roof, which does help, and lower cost.  I mean no offense to the many good people in Ohio - I personally love Cincinnati - but NC is just a much better business climate from a political, labor force, and work-ethic/culture standpoint. I've been responsible for running businesses in both states (as well as many others) and NC is unbeatable in its combination of factors for business, plus its a place that is really great to live so employees will probably be happier down the road.  Lionel made a very smart decision.

As to the families forced to relocate, relocation is a reality of our modern world- everyone knows the rules going in.  Companies know about 30% of employees under the best of circumstances choose not to go with the job and employees ought to know employers consider everyone - even SVPs - to be fungible, and so they should manage their careers well enough to have control of their lives, not cede it to their employer.  In this case I'm a hardened Darwinian. Decades ago, my grandfather told me, "Most people get 'independently wealthy' backwards.  Start out being independent, work hard, and the wealth will follow."  My Dad never followed that advice and he had a good corporate career and retired comfortably, but we moved twelve times before I was out of college.  I did follow that advice and it worked for me - maybe I was just lucky but . . . 

Anyway, your point about wiz-kids who crank out spreadsheets touches a raw nerve: I find them incredibly annoying at times when they steadfastly believe their BS too much. But they have their place: the spreadsheets don't lie, they just tell only part of the tale.  The executive's job is to know the BS from the real facts and be able to make the right decision.  Darwin at work again.  I have no idea if Lionel has any such wiz-kids itself, but over the past five years its been obvious that Lionel has some very savvy executives.  I haven't seen they make any serious mis-steps, and they have made lots of great moves in product development, marketing, and now, this relocation/consolidation to NC.

 I don't know where they are taking things, but I will throw this fact into this fire: move up I-85 just half an hour from Lione;'s new location and you get into the Highpoint area of central NC. There is a tremendous, underutilized light manufacturing workforce there, that views $20 an hour as princely wages.  If you are thinking about bringing back your product-assembly to America, there is not a better place to set up your base camp than where they are!

FWIW I believe turbine owners had the option of getting a refund.

At any rate, the easiest thing to do is, simply, DO NOT purchase any more Lionel products.

If they "can't get it right" after 100 years, its not likely they will.

Shawn, you seem to have a real axe to grind with Lionel. While I share some concerns about charging people for something for which, in my view, they have already paid, I am not sure from where all the hostility originates.  Is there anything the firm has done right lately?

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But they have their place: the spreadsheets don't lie

Spreadsheets display what is placed on them. They can be made to say just about anything by the analyst who develops them. (1st hand experience)

This would be my concern as well.  For those of us on this forum, we are likely not to be impacted negatively because most of us have been around trains long enough to determine when something actually requires service as compared to simply not knowing how to use the item.  But with respect to someone who is new to the hobby -- for example a parent who purchased a LionChief set for a child and is setting it up for the first time -- what many of us take and know for granted would be news to that person.  Thus the person's first experience with the hobby could be not only an unreliable product, but a less than stellar customer service experience.  Magnifying the issue, at least from my perspective, is that many of Lionel's recent products have not been without defect.  A friend of ours saw our O gauge layout and got their kids a Polar Express set this past Christmas.  A gear in the locomotive stripped and it needed to go back.  (I believe CTT had issues with their test set as well.)  Others here have reported that axles drop off of the new LionChief locos.  A minor thing for any of us to fix, but an unsettling event and likely warranty claim for someone new to the hobby.

To some up, my concern here isn't the $60 I might spend -- it's small money in this hobby and I have enough confidence in myself to fix most minor defects on the trains.  The issue is whether it will be applied correctly with people who are new to the hobby.  There are those here who think Lionel will apply it sensibly and that very well may be the case, but if they screw it up they will be injuring the hobby -- the Lionel name is still the name that pulls people in around Christmastime -- and that worries me. 

Boy, This post wouldn't even be here if it where like the good old days with a hobby shop in every town and a knowledgeable repair person available to sort this out at the store you bought it at.......,  G

If one gets technical about it, if you combine Lionel MPC/Fundimensions, LTI, & Lionel LLC they've had 45 years to "get it right."  Lionel in it's current initiation is not directly tied to the original Lionel Corporation founded in 1900 which got out of the toy train business in 1969.

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my concern here isn't the $60 I might spend -- it's small money in this hobby

IMHO, it isn't small money to have evaporate into the air, to get nothing in return, then add the cost of shipping, the time without one's merchandise, and the disappointment felt in having to go though the whole process.

I think it's another nail in the coffin.

The first person to actually get charged $60, please post here. Until then, this is a phantom issue .

If Lionel is experiencing an issue with non-defective trains being returned for alleged defects then that tells me 1) their trains and control systems are too complex, and 2) the instructions are poorly written.

The year-round operator learns by trial and error how to correct and re-program the various manufacturer's trains and systems, but for the seasonal or occasional user these trains and control systems can be overwhelming. I am in the latter group and I find modern trains/control systems perplexing at times. I always contact CS first, however.

I think they are targeting hobby shops. Not really the end user. If they can lower their return cost by having a middle guy to confirm customer confusion, so be it.

Personally Lionel repair has improved over the years. I hope they keep it up in the new location.

There are some features over the years that have change that have resulted in some confusion.  

With the recent smoke unit failures most returns are valid. I think the screeching smoke unit was the most annoying warranty item I ever experienced. 

Actually there is no obligation for MTH or Lionel  dealer to fix anything not purchased from them.

Considering Lionel has not run a technician course in about 3 years it is hard to blame a LHS for not knowing how items should work. No current tech can be up to speed other than thru call ins to Lionel, and their own broad experience.  G

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

A "little" off topic; I realize that Phil Hull is moving to NC, but how about the rest of the crew? Will Brian, Dean, Aaron, Bill and the rest of the crew in Ohio be moving also to North Carolina ?

Spoke with Dean at York and he and the family are going, not sure about the rest.