SPSF posted:Before I enlarged the Vision GS steamers page, I thought I was seeing a $999 price which would make sense because these engines are overdone
Did the same thing, I thought what a bargain!
Dave45681 posted:Hopefully someday (maybe that's today, I can't see the catalog yet
) they will offer a "snow" version of the conductor announcement car.
-Dave
That would be nice, tired of hearing "I'm the King of the North Pole" or whatever he says.
Lots of modern beginner toys. Nothing for the Fallen Flags era Modelers. Nothing new just like the last MTH catalog.
Still waiting for the flat spot cars and Wagon Top Cabooses arriving in the Summer.
Pardon my newbie ignorance as this is the 1st "modern" Lionel catalog I have ever seen.
What is the difference between these listed versions of already existing Lionchief sets and the versions that have been on the market for some time?
I'm specifically referring to things like the Blue Comet, Lehigh Valley, Santa Fe Super Chief, US Steam etc. They all seem to be still Lionchief and have not been "upgraded" to Lionchief Plus or Lionchief 2.0.
Again, so much has changed since I last participated in the hobby I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the "new world order" as quickly as possible.
Thanks everyone!
Put three things in my shopping cart so far. Still looking stuff over.
irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
Well, after taking a much better look at things I know a few things I am not going to buy. I will have to mull things over a bit for things I am looking at, thinking about a few things, a Diesel believe it or not. Steam is always good for me, and there is a good amount of steam in this catalog.....well, not much if you slice out the VL stuff. Heck, I am okay with that. I do like the look of all the GS steamers, but I am passing because I am more of an east coast steamhead(I know, I know, I do have that UP engine, lol). See what else comes to my liking, will take a few days to get things going. I am actually looking at some freight cars I didn't think I would, but you know how that goes, can never have enough freight.
Nothing of interest for me.
Interesting on the Charles Ro email. He traditionally comes in later with his new catalog pricing. But glad to see it. Will be placing my orders soon!
Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
The one B&O item that I saw was the O gauge Chessie System B&O GP38-2 diesel locomotive.
Andrew
The Amtrak E8 A-A units in the early patch scheme are a must have. Love the transition pieces...having just received the Conrail GP35s in 2019. Hoping Lionel offers an Amtrak "rainbow" set to follow. I believe these E8s were in use on the Broadway Limited so the PC transition cars will work for now.
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I am interested in the Boston & Maine milk and passenger train pulled by one E8. It looks like the milk car manufacture problem will be solved in 2020.
peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
The Train Master was far from a dud. They served successfully on the railroads that ordered them, particularly the Virginian, which was 99.99% FM (The VGN had 1 GE 44 tonner...) The Illinois Central was impressed and planned on ordering 75 of them, but instability of Fairbanks Morse by way of a stockholder proxy fight discouraged the IC's ordering.
I think Lionel just saw the Train Master as a big, impressive diesel they could sell.
Rusty
ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I ordered one from McMuffins Trains last week and it was delivered today by USPS.
Landsteiner posted:I think the SP loco proliferation tells us a number of things, particularly after listening to Ryan Kunkle on the Notch 6 podcast. One, Lionel has lots of existing tooling that makes this variety of GS locos practical and cost effective Two, production numbers with BTO can be relatively modest, and it doesn't cost much more to make 6 related locos than 6 of the same loco. Three, they can cancel anything for which there are inadequate order numbers. Four, there will be some folks who buy 3, 5 or more locos who would only buy one if only one model variation was offered. Five, there is at least one new feature (some cylinder steam effect) never before done that will entice some folks who already own a related product.
Listen to the podcast if you are interested. A different perspective than we can have as individual consumers.
PS--Beautiful locos but I'm not in the market. More likely to order the Area 51 set
.
I'm still scatching my head over this fixation with SP GS locos. Especially odd (at least as to the Daylights) given that they just did a bunch of Daylights recently. I don't recall ever seeing so many of the (basically) same engine from the same railroad occupying so much space in a catalog. It may make some sense for Lionel (if their plan was as Landsteiner outlined), but if so it seems a major aspect of the plan was to economize, and make a little look like a lot.
I have the first Legacy Daylight GS-4 (no.11127), which suits me fine. It's beautiful, and was a bargain compared to these new ones, and I see no reason at all to consider replacing it. Also, I have it with the 18" aluminum streamlined cars Lionel made, which have a perfect color match with the engine. Lionel has only made 21" plastic cars in the streamlined variety since then (too long for me), and perfect color match is doubtful. Given Lionel's current track record, you can't bet that those plastic steamlined cars recently made, or any that might be made in the future, are going to provide a color match with these new engines.
I believe the Milk Cars were one of maybe two items made in Romania...but only the hoppers made it out of there. The back story would be interesting to me as someone who enjoys the manufacturing challenges and stories behind the product.
Peter Allen, I am about to post a Lionel Columbian 18" passenger train for sale, if any interest please email me.
Scott
falconservice posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
The one B&O item that I saw was the O gauge Chessie System B&O GP38-2 diesel locomotive.
Andrew
So not be a stickler but I am not counting the Chessie items, I want per-merger fallen flag B&O right from the heart of Mt.Clair!
After the Preamble Express run was over, the engine went back to UP. There are pictures of it in PE paint leading the Amtrak SF ZYPHER on the UP part of the route.
Rusty Traque posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
The Train Master was far from a dud. They served successfully on the railroads that ordered them, particularly the Virginian, which was 99.99% FM (The VGN had 1 GE 44 tonner...) The Illinois Central was impressed and planned on ordering 75 of them, but instability of Fairbanks Morse by way of a stockholder proxy fight discouraged the IC's ordering.
I think Lionel just saw the Train Master as a big, impressive diesel they could sell.
Rusty
Lionel said this in one of their catalogs:
"In 1953, Fairbanks-Morse began building its massive Train Master diesel locomotives to become powerful workhorses with universal use. The new units were promoted as providing 50 to 60 percent more power, 50 to 90 percent more continuous tractive effort, and 50 percent more weight on their wheels in a single unit as compared to any 1,500 to 1,600 horsepower, four-axle diesel locomotive in service at the time."
They go on to talk about railroads that ordered them, and how on some railroads they were used for both freight and passenger service. It appears that these large, imposing engines were a fairly big deal when they appeared, and it's not hard to understand why Lionel decided to make them.
I seem to recall that the weak part was the engine. FM had made engines for submarines during the war, and they had some unique characteristics, having been purpose-made for conditions in submarines, and the transition to use in railroad locomotives created some issues.
If they do the colors right on the #60 trolley I'll probably be in for that which would look cool next to my original #60 trolley. A few LED track sections for around the tree. I have my eye on the British Hall set and maybe a Christmas vacation box car.
peter allen 072518 posted:falconservice posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
The one B&O item that I saw was the O gauge Chessie System B&O GP38-2 diesel locomotive.
Andrew
So not be a stickler but I am not counting the Chessie items, I want per-merger fallen flag B&O right from the heart of Mt.Clair!
The B&O ACF Center Flow 3-bay cylindrical hoppers are cars that they have not had produced for O scale
The B&O PS-2 2-bay covered hoppers have not yet been made.
The P-S 60' single-door box cars were not offered in B&O yet.
Andrew
I have to get all 4 of the Chessie System C&O covered gondolas.
Andrew
Like all the new Sp Gs Legacy and Vision Line engines with the new features; hope to get one.
Also I don't understand the complaining about the legacy and vision line prices. All of the Vision Line Big Boys sold for over 2,000.00 (gone) and Sunset 3RD Rail equivalent large steam engines sell for 1800.00 + and they sell out.
Just my 2 cents
I like all of the Vision GS class engines, especially the GS-1 and GS-4 no. 4439. I also like the Blue Mountain & Reading T1. However, I can't afford any of them.
The B6sb was a little interesting since I model the Pennsy, but I would only use the engine in my engine maintenance facility, which first of all isn't built yet and second of all is shaping up to be quite small. Additionally, I know for a fact that it will come in with a banshee whistle, and I already have the Legacy H10 which has the same whistle.
B&M E8 passenger set. Too cool!
Grampstrains posted:ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I gt mail today also. It all depends on where you buy.
I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!
With all four of my grandparents from Italy, the Friendship train with the "Viva L'Italia" look good to me!
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Nothing of interest. 200 pages of nothing.
NYC E 8's.Vision stock sets NYC web cam cabooses,GN pulpwood cars trolleys,Refrigerator cars with ice steam.. American freedom train add on cars. Freedom train auxiliary tender, Disappointed vista dome web cam NYC is 21 not 18 inch. Oh well.
There’s lots I like:
the GS4 freight set, the unskirted daylight GS4. The golden state cars, the PRR run through 2 pls, the VL reefers, & stock cars. The CNJ sd40’s including the red Barron set. The PRR B6 with the Atlantic tender. The beer box cars, the Amtrak & southern E8’s.
obviosly I’m not ordering all or even 1/2 of that but I love this catalog. Tough choices 
Train Nut posted:Grampstrains posted:ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I gt mail today also. It all depends on where you buy.
I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!
It was sent via USPS 2-Day Priority Mail. Checked the tracking and here is what it said, "Your item was delivered in or at the mailbox at 2:29 pm on January 20, 2020"
Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:"Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order"
So there is one good example of what I mean about the pricing! The set breaks down to right at $50 per each little bitty car! Something that should sell for half of that! Someone at Lionel is getting rich!
According to your math, that would make the track, the remote and the elves free.
I was speaking of the "4-Pack" add on at $199.99.
Normal disconnect cars are priced at 44.95. So if you add 5 bucks a car for a PE royalty, it's the same as always.
Still too much for what little you get.
This catalog is, as always, quite interesting. That said, it has by far the fewest items of interest for me that I can recall . Ever. To each his own, of course.
1. Odd heavy emphasis on big steam, especially the GS series. I don’t recall a catalog doing that before. Since I use 036 Fastrak, none of the 054 items are of any use to me.
2. I like LC+ because I run straight conventional. There are mighty few new offerings in that line this time out, and none that appeal to me.
3. Lionel’s emphasis on branded cross-marketing continues apace. Since I like real RR offerings, that leaves me out, too. I will get the Christmas Story car since I have all the others (my wife is a CS fanatic).
4. About all I see is a BN boxcar and a GN pulpwood car. Maybe a Santa Fe TOFC.
So, I save some money this time around. I have several expensive items ordered from the last catalog (2019-2), so it should work out well.
Enjoy your trains.
Dave45681 posted:Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:I was speaking of the "4-Pack" add on at $199.99.
Normal disconnect cars are priced at 44.95. So if you add 5 bucks a car for a PE royalty, it's the same as always.
When I count the cars behind the engine, I get 5, not 4:
Am I missing something?
-Dave
Yes you are! Top of the next page!
NS1975 posted:Train Nut posted:I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!It was sent via USPS 2-Day Priority Mail. Checked the tracking and here is what it said, "Your item was delivered in or at the mailbox at 2:29 pm on January 20, 2020"
It’s good to see the USPS make a valid attempt to compete with FedEx, UPS, and Amazon.
This is what is on my “Maybe Bucket List”….. I also need to talk to my local train shop for their advice.
Gary
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Lots of interesting stuff and whole lot of what the heck is that!?
I love the Reading and Conrail. I have an older Reading T1 and my first mth unit was a Conrail dash-7, but even if you roll in the fallen flag theory - something about that engine screams this is not a T1!! I don't know if its the wheels or not, but the front end just looks wrong to me somehow.
I can't unerstand why Lionchief still is offered when LC+ and now lc2.0 is some much better. I like the area 51 train, but I just don't want another lc engine, even with the light up track.
As to the Christmas light up track, its pretty cool, but massively expensive. And why does the only set it comes with have the cheapest possible - basically disposable - starter set steamer? You would think an advance feature like that would be available in more than one set and certainly in a set with an engine would be at least lc+ and better quality than that. I really like the Strasburg set, but again don't like the lc only control system.
The picture below was posted in another thread by @geysergazer
Below is an image from another thread about this catalog.
While the pictures are at different angles, the front end is very different. Imho, the catalog image doesn't look like a Reading t1. The driver are wrong, and those high number boards are really wrong.
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BobbyD posted:irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
What I indicated was written in pp. 40-41 in the catalog. The language is not as precise in subsequent pages where there are scale freight cars. I will confirm with Ryan at the Amherst Train Show this weekend.
Pat
