It was also in the online version of the catalog. Lionel added a video to the first vision line page in it and Ryan talks about all of the new features and so forth.
Being a BN fan I’m in for
BN insulated box car
BNSF reefer car
BN, BNSF, DETX and PPLX coal cars
I might throw in a Buzz and Woody hand car for some fun.
Well, I think I have my list of what I want. None of the VL GS's series, though they look nice(artist's rendition and all, I'm for east coast this catalog). Ill take 2 of the VL Reefers, the Reading T1(after seeing 2124 at Steamtown, it's a must), the passenger cars that go with it, a couple of the B6's(PRR of course), no Diesel's, I changed my mind then back again on that, a bunch of coal Hoppers(including Blue Coal), a boatload of Milk Cars, 2 of the PRR cabooses, no coopala cams(did I misspell that?), and a few of the covered Gondolas. It took me a bit to figure out which gondolas but I decided to go with Bethlehem Steel & Reading. That does it for me.
While there are other things that I do like, it is either that I prefer something else or the offering required me to spend further than I would like to. While the GS stuff does appeal to me, I decided against it mainly because of cost. I was interested in the PRR TM, but I can wait, not like they won't ever do them again.
I have to laugh at you guys complaining about some of the sets not being able to be controlled by Legacy. I can run five trains on five main lines and two Subways on their own tracks. Once the trains are going I don’t need to do anything other than blow a whistle. And if I am going to keep blowing whistles and horns I still have to switch back and forth on the Legacy remote. I rarely cycle through seven trains. It’s actually easier when I have a Lionchief train because I just pick up the remote and blow the whistle when I want. Legacy is great and I love the features but honestly, once I get the trains going, remotes are down and I’m just watching the trains go round. BigRail
Definitely: Steve Nelson’s (Mr Muffins) Wabash FM (tri-color), Friendship Train passenger cars and all six PS-1s, PolEx scale ToFC.
Maybe: Black roof scale PolEx hobo car if the RPOs get fixed before the ordering deadline and the lettering is confirmed to be moved from the catalog description.
Still thinking: Vision reefers, Vision stock cars (the stock cars were a definite until I heard Marty’s original version - yikes - that cowpoke would drive me nuts).
Rider Sandman posted:Definitely: Steve Nelson’s (Mr Muffins) Wabash FM (tri-color), Friendship Train passenger cars and all six PS-1s, PolEx scale ToFC.
Maybe: Black roof scale PolEx hobo car if the RPOs get fixed before the ordering deadline and the lettering is confirmed to be moved from the catalog description.
Still thinking: Vision reefers, Vision stock cars (the stock cars were a definite until I heard Marty’s original version - yikes - that cowpoke would drive me nuts).
Correct me if I am wrong. The scale PE hobo car lettering is in the same location as the other scale cars. My scale cars have the writing below the windows as shown on Page 161.
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:Rider Sandman posted:Definitely: Steve Nelson’s (Mr Muffins) Wabash FM (tri-color), Friendship Train passenger cars and all six PS-1s, PolEx scale ToFC.
Maybe: Black roof scale PolEx hobo car if the RPOs get fixed before the ordering deadline and the lettering is confirmed to be moved from the catalog description.
Still thinking: Vision reefers, Vision stock cars (the stock cars were a definite until I heard Marty’s original version - yikes - that cowpoke would drive me nuts).
Correct me if I am wrong. The scale PE hobo car lettering is in the same location as the other scale cars. My scale cars have the writing below the windows as shown on Page 161.
The original scale cars from 2014 (black roof) all have the letters above the windows. The black roof hobo in the 2020 catalog has the lettering below the windows like the snow roofs.
With all the SP engines in this catalog, can't believe there wasn't a black SP aux. tender. Instead they make a no road name one. Lionel has never made a SP black aux. tender even though they made so many Cab Forwards also.
Rider Sandman posted:Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:Rider Sandman posted:Definitely: Steve Nelson’s (Mr Muffins) Wabash FM (tri-color), Friendship Train passenger cars and all six PS-1s, PolEx scale ToFC.
Maybe: Black roof scale PolEx hobo car if the RPOs get fixed before the ordering deadline and the lettering is confirmed to be moved from the catalog description.
Still thinking: Vision reefers, Vision stock cars (the stock cars were a definite until I heard Marty’s original version - yikes - that cowpoke would drive me nuts).
Correct me if I am wrong. The scale PE hobo car lettering is in the same location as the other scale cars. My scale cars have the writing below the windows as shown on Page 161.
The original scale cars from 2014 (black roof) all have the letters above the windows. The black roof hobo in the 2020 catalog has the lettering below the windows like the snow roofs.
Rider Sandman posted:Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:Rider Sandman posted:Definitely: Steve Nelson’s (Mr Muffins) Wabash FM (tri-color), Friendship Train passenger cars and all six PS-1s, PolEx scale ToFC.
Maybe: Black roof scale PolEx hobo car if the RPOs get fixed before the ordering deadline and the lettering is confirmed to be moved from the catalog description.
Still thinking: Vision reefers, Vision stock cars (the stock cars were a definite until I heard Marty’s original version - yikes - that cowpoke would drive me nuts).
Correct me if I am wrong. The scale PE hobo car lettering is in the same location as the other scale cars. My scale cars have the writing below the windows as shown on Page 161.
The original scale cars from 2014 (black roof) all have the letters above the windows. The black roof hobo in the 2020 catalog has the lettering below the windows like the snow roofs.
Duh me. I never considered scale prior to the recent with snow tops. Sorry about that.
Last two catalogs had (real) better offerings. Cant beat Ro!
SIRT posted:Last two catalogs had (real) better offerings. Cant beat Ro!
You got me thinking that I don’t remember seeing any Long Island in this catalog. BigRail
This catalog only a UP ES44AC, but I still wonder what they are removing to cause the price to drop $50 from the run that arrived in December. I suspect ground lights will be gone, but it doesn't seem like that would amount to $50.
MartyE, I just received my hard copy of the dream book, it’s amazing, there’s so many sound cars, Camera cars, and neat diesels. The FM’s look great. It’s a very diversified selection of rolling stock, and the Frisco E8’s look great. It’s going to take time to select an affordable mix, with selling some of the older stock, it’s going to be fine. It’s hard to stay under $3K. This is one of the best catalogs in a long time. Great Question, thanks fir posting. Happy Railroading
For 120 year catalog why is the Southern Pacific featured . They came out with the daylight engines just about 4 to 5 years ago. I've got one so why buy another. I was in hope of something really new. I think I will pass on this offering.
Dominic Mazoch posted:The two Amtrak E units were very early repaints. One could run almost any passenger car behind them. Maybe there will be some early Amtrak passenger cars in the 2020-2 Cat.
Most definitely. Lionel seems very willing to offer us some of the less that status quo passenger cars.
leapinlarry posted:MartyE, I just received my hard copy of the dream book, it’s amazing, there’s so many sound cars, Camera cars, and neat diesels. The FM’s look great. It’s a very diversified selection of rolling stock, and the Frisco E8’s look great. It’s going to take time to select an affordable mix, with selling some of the older stock, it’s going to be fine. It’s hard to stay under $3K. This is one of the best catalogs in a long time. Great Question, thanks fir posting. Happy Railroading
You’re always so positive Larry... it’s very refreshing! Thanks for that!
breezinup posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:MikeH posted:Mike W. posted:Does Beer still move by rail? The beer cars made me think of this.
Those beer cars were for shipping barrels of beer. Prior to prohibition, over 80% of beer in the US was sold on draught at taverns. Even industry giants like Pabst, Schlitz, Ballantine, and Anheuser-Busch had just one big brewery. They had to ship those barrels all over the nation.
After Prohibition, draught beer consumption began to decline as the major brewers improved their bottling and then canning processes. Packaged beer is pasteurized and doesn't require refrigerated railcars.
Also after WWII, I know that our local brewery, Anheuser-Busch, brought the mountain to Mohammed: they opened breweries in Newark, NJ and Los Angeles, CA. So between the local breweries and better packaging, the beer cars became unnecessary.
And they built one in Houston.
Not altogether true. Railroads still haul beer in some areas. Here's one example.
"Unbeknownst to most commuters and residents, a railway has dutifully delivered New York City’s beer supplies for more than 20 years. The hidden freight train is so essential to the city’s beer consumption, in fact, that New York & Atlantic Railway president James Bonner nicknamed it the “pizza-and-beer railroad.”
Headquartered in Glendale, Queens, the New York & Atlantic Railway services Nassau and Suffolk Counties on Long Island, as well as Brooklyn and Queens. It operates via the Long Island Railroad (LIRR), the country’s densest passenger system, connecting to other railways including the BRT, CP, CSXT, NS, NYNJ, and P&W.
High on its list of deliveries are flour and beer. According to The New York Times’s Corey Kilgannon, things get especially busy during peak beer-drinking occasions like the Super Bowl and St. Patrick’s Day. At those times, up to 30 rail cars transport 3,500 cases of beer each, some of it coming “all the way from Mexico” with Corona and Modelo Especial."
I don't know the extent to which US breweries use rail to transport beer (although they have used glass-lined tank cars to transport slurry between breweries), but Mexico's beer travels by train. I posted another article at the Forum Real Trains site about Mexican beer being transported by the UP - pretty interesting information.
Rail probably carries the grain/hops. Intermodal tank containers carry wine and liquor...very common.
raising4daughters posted:Mike W. posted:Why are the Berkshire LionChief options made from that new tooling and not the Classic PW tooling as used on previous LC+ Berks?
Interesting question and follow-up for clarification. Based on the photos in the 2019 and 2020 catalogs, I think the LC+2 looks like Lionel's O27 Jr. Berk (like the traditional-sized PE). On the plus side, I think it's closer match to the real Berk that the LC+ and classic PW Berk. On the minus side, to me, a Berk should be the biggest steamer on a pike not counting articulateds. For semi-scalers, the Jr. Berk is smaller than even most Pacifics. For that reason, I went to DCS and picked up a Rail King which is 10-15% bigger than the Lionel Jr.
I'd REALLY like to know if the LC+2 is new tooling. Says 20" in the catalog which wouldn't interest me.
I like the PW based berks...all the PW based steamers look better as entry level LionChief verses the new tooled baby hudsons etc....the new entry level and scale berk tooling just looks odd to me...especially that entry level version. Why don't they just re offer the classic PW steamers like the Prairie etc in Lionchief form? I am sure the tooling can be copied as I believe the Prairie was worn out. We have a few modern uses of PW steam that would make perfect LionChief options.
Attachments
Images (8)
Mike W. posted:breezinup posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:MikeH posted:Mike W. posted:Does Beer still move by rail? The beer cars made me think of this.
Those beer cars were for shipping barrels of beer. Prior to prohibition, over 80% of beer in the US was sold on draught at taverns. Even industry giants like Pabst, Schlitz, Ballantine, and Anheuser-Busch had just one big brewery. They had to ship those barrels all over the nation.
After Prohibition, draught beer consumption began to decline as the major brewers improved their bottling and then canning processes. Packaged beer is pasteurized and doesn't require refrigerated railcars.
Also after WWII, I know that our local brewery, Anheuser-Busch, brought the mountain to Mohammed: they opened breweries in Newark, NJ and Los Angeles, CA. So between the local breweries and better packaging, the beer cars became unnecessary.
And they built one in Houston.
Not altogether true. Railroads still haul beer in some areas. Here's one example.
"Unbeknownst to most commuters and residents, a railway has dutifully delivered New York City’s beer supplies for more than 20 years. The hidden freight train is so essential to the city’s beer consumption, in fact, that New York & Atlantic Railway president James Bonner nicknamed it the “pizza-and-beer railroad.”
Headquartered in Glendale, Queens, the New York & Atlantic Railway services Nassau and Suffolk Counties on Long Island, as well as Brooklyn and Queens. It operates via the Long Island Railroad (LIRR), the country’s densest passenger system, connecting to other railways including the BRT, CP, CSXT, NS, NYNJ, and P&W.
High on its list of deliveries are flour and beer. According to The New York Times’s Corey Kilgannon, things get especially busy during peak beer-drinking occasions like the Super Bowl and St. Patrick’s Day. At those times, up to 30 rail cars transport 3,500 cases of beer each, some of it coming “all the way from Mexico” with Corona and Modelo Especial."
I don't know the extent to which US breweries use rail to transport beer (although they have used glass-lined tank cars to transport slurry between breweries), but Mexico's beer travels by train. I posted another article at the Forum Real Trains site about Mexican beer being transported by the UP - pretty interesting information.
Rail probably carries the grain/hops. Intermodal tank containers carry wine and liquor...very common.
Haven't researched US breweries' use of rail transportation, or other railroads, but the UP is doing a booming business transporting beer from Mexico throughout the US. They recently completed a new $40 million railport in Texas to handle the increasing demand. They ship millions of cases annually, and it's growing. They currently ship over 100 50' boxcars of beer per day, and the new railport is designed to handle 240/day, due to expected growth.
Cleaning and repairing beer cars at the UP railport for a Mexican brewery.
Maybe it's time for Lionel to produce a modern beer train!
The first LionChief Plus Berks were all made using the Post War tooling and look and run great. Did you miss that?
http://www.lionel.com/products...rkshire-726-6-84255/
Jon 
I like the Lionel Ale tank car
GG1guyy
KOOLjock1 posted:The first LionChief Plus Berks were all made using the Post War tooling and look and run great. Did you miss that?
http://www.lionel.com/products...rkshire-726-6-84255/
Jon
I didn't miss it but perhaps poster above did. Agree with you and him that the PW-based Berk looks great. Plus it brings back the nostalgia of the original 1940s version that was, I believe, their big splash post-war in die cast.
Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I'm not sure why they'd have two different semi-scale steamers of the same wheel configuration unless one was in the Lionmaster line with more details, goodies, etc. Freely admit I don't know their customer base or marketing plans.
When the came out with the PW-inspired Berk with LC+, I thought I had it figured out. The bigger, PW-like version for the mid-tier and the smaller, O27/Junior Berk for conventional and LC with the PE version being 90% of unit sales.
I don't understand putting LC+2.0 in what appears to me to be the O27/Junior Berk but hopeful to hear an explanation.
raising4daughters posted:On the plus side, I think it's closer match to the real Berk that the LC+ and classic PW Berk.
"[C]loser match" to WHICH real Berk? There were quite a few classes of Berks during the late steam era. The PW is a really good match for the B&A version it is supposedly based upon, and it also makes for a good match to the 1121-class MoPac Berks.
The LC+2 may look more like a Van Sweringen Berk, and we have some of those left (unlike the two types noted above), but still the PW Berk is a good match for its prototype.
palallin posted:raising4daughters posted:On the plus side, I think it's closer match to the real Berk that the LC+ and classic PW Berk.
"[C]loser match" to WHICH real Berk? There were quite a few classes of Berks during the late steam era. The PW is a really good match for the B&A version it is supposedly based upon, and it also makes for a good match to the 1121-class MoPac Berks.
The LC+2 may look more like a Van Sweringen Berk, and we have some of those left (unlike the two types noted above), but still the PW Berk is a good match for its prototype.
Ah, thanks for the explanation and clarification. Didn't realize or research that there were more than one out there. Guess I was using the scale Berk as the basis of match for the semi-scale versions offered by Lionel and MTH Rail King. Thanks for breaking it down! Guess it means I can have one of each and yet not have duplicates. My wife will love that rationalization.
palallin posted:raising4daughters posted:On the plus side, I think it's closer match to the real Berk that the LC+ and classic PW Berk.
"[C]loser match" to WHICH real Berk? There were quite a few classes of Berks during the late steam era. The PW is a really good match for the B&A version it is supposedly based upon, and it also makes for a good match to the 1121-class MoPac Berks.
The LC+2 may look more like a Van Sweringen Berk, and we have some of those left (unlike the two types noted above), but still the PW Berk is a good match for its prototype.
I never thought the PW Berk was based off of a specific berk, true or not that's a neat thought.
raising4daughters posted:Guess it means I can have one of each and yet not have duplicates. My wife will love that rationalization.
Hey, we have to take advantage of every break we can get in the realm of acquisitions!
SGP posted:I never thought the PW Berk was based off of a specific berk, true or not that's a neat thought.
Nice article written up on it in CTT years ago.
I'm not sure how well-researched the CTT article was, but IMO a 736 looks NOTHING like a B&A Berk. The 736 succeeded the 726, which in turn put the prewar superstructure of the 226E on a new 8-wheel chassis.
To my eyes, the 226E is patterned (loosely) after an Erie S-3 Berk. Of course in 1938 Lionel didn't have an 8-wheel chassis so it had to be a 2-6-4 instead of a 2-8-4. All the better to get around O31 curves!
Regarding the "new" Berkshire Jr.-- Yes it clearly incorporates styling features from the NKP and PM Berks. But it's small. Really small, like an S-gauge loco on an O gauge chassis. And those googly-eye marker lights, ugh! I like the lines of the Postwar Berk better, probably because I've been seeing them since childhood.
I agree with a previous poster... Instead of the tiny Berkshire Jr., I wish they would bring back the "Prairie" 2-6-4 a la 2037. Great size and styling for an 'O27' loco. I also thought that tooling was worn beyond repair. And I believe one of the molds was altered to produce the short-lived 4-6-2 of the mid-1990s (IMO not an improvement 
.) Maybe @PaperTRW will jump in and tell us the whole story. But as the pictures show, somehow a decent reproduction was created for the last issue of the Girls' set, complete with a Chinese Pullmor motor!
I would gladly pay up for a LC+ 2.0 version of the Prairie if it had the big motor, flywheel, and worm-gear drive like the LC+ 726.
I was looking through the catalog last night and looked at the black GSs. I was caught by the SP Lines GS-2. I really like the blacked out appearance. Figured they would probably get the color right. Old friend (train store) in Chicago could use the business. Done deal. I hope I am finished😂
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I was looking through the catalog last night and looked at the black GSs. I was caught by the SP Lines GS-2. I really like the blacked out appearance. Figured they would probably get the color right. Old friend (train store) in Chicago could use the business. Done deal. I hope I am finished😂
With the order deadline still weeks away, there is no way you can declare yourself finished ......
Not much. Looking at the Star Trek set would have been nice to have Flats with say an Enterprise model sitting on it or any number of StarShips or smaller vessels on flats.
I am definitely getting the Wings of Angels cars I dig the pin up girl look. Also going on a limb and getting one of each of the GS series 1-6
KOOLjock1 posted:The first LionChief Plus Berks were all made using the Post War tooling and look and run great. Did you miss that?
http://www.lionel.com/products...rkshire-726-6-84255/
Jon
Its just odd to me that Lionel worked to clean this tooling up for the Lion Chief line then switched to the other style.
MartyE posted:I tend to agree with having LC+2.0 in all future Lionel releases but not knowing the cost I guess could make it prohibitive. Keeping the sets affordable is probably important to Lionel so there is that.
I applaud the engineering folks for making LC+2.0 available now in most of the separate sale engines. It does open up a lot more choices, it would be cool if they could go the extra step into sets.
Yea I guess it's to keep the price down on the sets. It would be nice if they put at least Lion Chef+ on the Budweiser Set . It says for 21 and over so it's not a starter set for kids. Why not have at least Lion Chef+. Really wanted to get the Budweiser Clydesdale Set in the last catalog but the engine was just Lion Chief. Took a pass. Now the Budweiser set in the 2020 catalog looks good except for the low line Lion Chief Engine. Makes no sense especially with all the extra cars they are offering.
Ted S posted:I'm not sure how well-researched the CTT article was, but IMO a 736 looks NOTHING like a B&A Berk. The 736 succeeded the 726, which in turn put the prewar superstructure of the 226E on a new 8-wheel chassis.
Which class? The B&A had 3 different types.
The 736 looks closer to the Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo 2-8-4's.
Rusty
Postwar style PRR F-3's - 
I have a few LC plus postwar style NW2 switchers and I love them - been waiting for the F-3's
Also - any updates on the upcoming LC plus GG-1's ???
I really like the two pack Penn RR Santa Fe 21 inch passenger cars Question Does anyone what colors were used in the interior of these cars I could not find a description or an interior color photo Any help would be greatly appreciated Also still waiting for 21 inch Penn R.R. congressional cars Maybe in Vol 2 I can dream can’t I
Re: The Lionchief vs. 2.0:
I can see it if there is a major cost savings for some sets I guess.
Looking at the Polar Express Disconnect set, It's hard to swallow that they didn't include it when they've done so for all the separate sale engines of the identical type.
That would be a far more desirable set to me if the engine was Lionchief 2.0.
-Dave
