Lionel USRA 2-6-6-2 LEGACY Upgrade (9/03/20)

Bruk, dumb question for you.  I have a locomotive with dual smoke in for repair.  For the life of me, I can't figure out how to keep smoke from bleeding between the chambers.  The result is, smoke gets forced out the intake holes of the inactive side.  The gasket looks good, and I've stuffed a very solid piece of felt to fill the lower gap and still let fluid soak through, but I still have the issue.

Have you ever had this, and what do you do to correct it?

John

I’m having the same issue. it seems as soon as the unit is opened up and you repack it, There’s no way to stop the smoke from leaking into the opposite chamber. I’ve tried everything in my power and I can’t figure this out. I notice the old batting is the thick dense type , I’m wondering if that’s the only fix. 

Alex 

Soft@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bruk, dumb question for you.  I have a locomotive with dual smoke in for repair.  For the life of me, I can't figure out how to keep smoke from bleeding between the chambers.  The result is, smoke gets forced out the intake holes of the inactive side.  The gasket looks good, and I've stuffed a very solid piece of felt to fill the lower gap and still let fluid soak through, but I still have the issue.

Have you ever had this, and what do you do to correct it?

John,  I have had similar issues. Judging from what you said the most common issue I found that was the lower gap to transfer fluid between chambers. I have also had to add a soft liquid goo to seal the upper gasket to that divider and smoke unit body. I have had the impeller air pressures leak into each others intakes. I have also “resurfaced” the smoke unit body like a head on a engine . I found many smoke unit tops warped with low spots. I lay a large file flat on the table and work the smoke unit surface till its flat. I usually do this every time I work with a smoke unit Dual or single chambered. 

There will always be a very small leak because of the gaps between the fibers of wicking. But there shouldn't be a large amount if smoke to leak through. 

Bruk, I was considering my gasket material for the top seal.  The bottom I put some pretty dense felt into it, I figured that should stop most airflow, but obviously I could be wrong.   You can't get the original material, or I'd try that.

I'm going to take a look at the smoke unit top and see if a resurface job might be called for.

This is a truly dumb design, I wonder what genius at Lionel came up with this idea!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

This is a truly dumb design, I wonder what genius at Lionel came up with this idea!

That's a little harsh...

Well it's been there since the run of PRR #6498 2-10-4 Texas class.  I have that locomotive and repacked the smoke unit once.  Took me a long time to get it where the chuffing unit was forcing smoke from the cylinder steam hole.  Trial and error.  That was 2011 when that was released so they've been around for a while.  I think Mike helped me but I can't remember what the solution was.  @Mikado might know some tricks to help yinz guys.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

This is a truly dumb design, I wonder what genius at Lionel came up with this idea!

Truth be told I think the same. I am in the works on the side of a re-design of Lionels DSMK, I hate how the exhaust holes aren’t centered of the unit but on the sides. 

The funnels that Lionel designed for some engines clog with fluid so easily because due to the sharp change in direction. Such as their legacy Scale Berk and Y6b engine

Hence why my funnels that I designed are not constricted and “flow”. 

I’ve posted about this smoke unit many times before.  I feel your pain.

@Bruk posted:

The funnels that Lionel designed for some engines clog with fluid so easily because due to the sharp change in direction. Such as their legacy Scale Berk and Y6b engine

Hence why my funnels that I designed are not constricted and and “flow”. 

I'd love to have a replacement for the JLC Challenger, the funnel on that one is terrible!  They put a flat pancake affair on it and then molded a huge wedge into the diecast shell hoping that would properly direct the smoke.  News flash, it doesn't!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd love to have a replacement for the JLC Challenger, the funnel on that one is terrible!  They put a flat pancake affair on it and then molded a huge wedge into the diecast shell hoping that would properly direct the smoke.  News flash, it doesn't!

Agreed. Any early TMCC loco with dual stacks are pretty much the same all around. Ill come up with a fix just for you....eventually! 

It would probably be a marketable item if it worked, because the stock one really sucks!

More progress, 

It doesn’t look like much but there is a lot going on. Main drive harness has been all worked and soldered in. Front drive harness has been reworked to except 4 wire plug for the new LED headlight and pickup. Tender is up next. Then back to the boiler shell to fit the smoke unit. 

Update:

Tender is complete. Nothing special, just a standard install like my other conversions. 

The tenders are pretty easy Bruk, your magic comes in the locomotive.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The tenders are pretty easy Bruk, your magic comes in the locomotive.

Agreed. Tender goes together relatively fast. I got 2 hours into this tender. Stripping it down, mounting, rewiring/crimping.  

Update!!! Part(s) are Here! 

I needed yet another custom designed and 3D Printed smoke funnel. This is what I came up with. I call it the “Universal DSMU Funnel Assembly” made it so I can trim the height of the exhaust as needed. Able to withstand 350°F according to Shapeways. 

Time to start grinding and drilling to fit in the shell. 

@Bruk posted:

Update!!! Part(s) are Here! 

I needed yet another custom designed and 3D Printed smoke funnel. This is what I came up with. I call it the “Universal DSMU Funnel Assembly” made it so I can trim the height of the exhaust as needed. Able to withstand 350°F according to Shapeways. 

Time to start grinding and drilling to fit in the shell. 

Do you know what material they printed those out of? 

That's really cool Bruk, love seeing 3D printers used to their potential.

@BillYo414 posted:

Do you know what material they printed those out of? 

I had them printed in a infused

Flexible, Nylon 12 Plastic, PA12, Polyamide, PA 2200

Thanks!! I wasn't sure if plain old PLA would hold up

Update:

So, after some grinding and some hole drilling, I got the smoke unit installed. Whistle steam elbow made. The shell is all wired up. The lights work as they should. The smoke output is amazing.

I need help!

I ran into a problem of course. During my testing, I was running the loco. Then it stopped. I lost all command. I thought maybe my legacy base got disconnected. Nope. I hit the reset button for the engine, nothing, it just sat there. The headlight wasn’t flickering.

I cycled the power, got the loco to move again, ran about 2 inches then stopped. No control again. I swapped the RCMC out with another and I still have the same issue. I thought maybe my handrails were grounding out so I used my meter, nothing. It was running fine with the shell off. Makes me think its a radio signal issue due to a grounding problem. I dunno. 

Usually I’m the one with the fix 😂

@Bruk posted:

Update:

So, after some grinding and some hole drilling, I got the smoke unit installed. Whistle steam elbow made. The shell is all wired up. The lights work as they should. The smoke output is amazing.

 

 

Now you're just showing off!  LOL! 

That smoke is extremely impressive! Hopefully I can get my engines to do that when I get to that project. 

Can't be dirty track Bruk, or something like that? Dirty rollers, or something like that as well? If it were electronic, I'm sure you'd know from minute one. I've no earthly idea what could be killing it out like that other than dirty something being the culprit.

Is there any other suggestions to my problems  I’m having that I said above, its been so long since I ran into something like this. I almost forget. 

If it runs fine with the shell off there is more than likely a grounding problem somewhere between the antenna and frame/shell. Are you sure that the antenna (handrails) isn't hitting some part of the shell/chassis when it's lowered into place? 

Issue Solved????

So after about 3 hours...I cleaned my track (again) checked/my serial data wire from my command base. Solder the radio board to the actual board (Lionel does that now). Replaced the Prog/Run switch. This improved but didn’t solve the issue. 

I’d want to believe even a “faint short” is gonna show up with a meter......believe me, I’m glad you found the issue....just curious how you did the initial test of the handrails and found them to be ok the first go-around?....I’m on a quest to learn...

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I’d want to believe even a “faint short” is gonna show up with a meter......believe me, I’m glad you found the issue....just curious how you did the initial test of the handrails and found them to be ok the first go-around?....I’m on a quest to learn...

Pat

The meter I have is a Fluke 87.

I originally was measuring with the “beeping” circuit feature which quickly finds “shorts”. When I turned that feature off this time around, I can measure down to Milli-ohms. I was getting readings which I should not have. This pointed me to finding the corrosion issue.

I also tested every pin in all my connectors to all the frames of the loco, thats where I found a weird reading with the program/run switch and swapped it out. 

Priceless info!!!!

Interesting Bruk, always one new wrinkle to sort out.

Here is the handrail patch

Bruk, now that can only be described as a glorified PITA. I didn't really believe it could be a track being dirty issue, but given some of the responses I've seen from the regular folk like myself, that is usually where they're directed to start.

I do remember some years back before I joined up here on the forum that I was told about insulation on the handrails being essential for operation. Who would have ever thought corrosion would be the factor here? Certainly not me.

Reminds me of a story my uncle told me once, about how they had a racecar on the track, and it would sputter something bad on the straightaways, but no issues on the turns(1950's). All the big heads couldn't figure it out for naught. My uncle said they called over one of the local kids who worked at the track to take a look. Didn't take him long. He replaced the fuel line with a wider size line and the car ran without issue. The big heads never even considered the gas line was to narrow to allow the fuel to flow smoothly.

I think of all of you guys working on these engines in that regard. You get in there and slowly work it down to what the real issue is giving you grief. Lord knows I would bring it into the LTS and tell them all I could and they'd probably figure it out. Me, I'd put my finger in the outlet, lol.

So, one last question - are the stanchions that hold the hand rails to the hull insulated from the hull or are they plastic or made of something else?

They're plastic.

Final Product Video! 

Everything is working as it should. Another one crossed off my list of conversions.

That's a beautiful conversion. I hope I can learn all this stuff and be able to do work like this.

@BillYo414 posted:

That's a beautiful conversion. I hope I can learn all this stuff and be able to do work like this.

You and me both! 

Mark in Oregon 

That's great Bruk, time for a new project.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's great Bruk, time for a new project.

Id say so John, lots to do. 🙄