Lionel video re ground plane and TMCC signal

This is accurate. Wherever you have multiple tracks close together side by side OR tracks crossing over one another, adding a ground plane wire is necessary. We did this on our club layout where we have lots of these situations and the signal improved immensely.

Not always, the only way to know is by running your trains and seeing if they have signal issues. If you refrain from adding scenery for awhile you may be able to add the wire later in any areas that cuse a problem.

Scroll down to member "Ingeniero no.1"s post on this thread. A fairly sizable layout with elevated and parellel tracks and only one problem  area.

https://ogrforum.com/d.../lastReply#lastReply

The comments given around the 16 minute mark, while they may be accurate, simply is not a "miracle solution".  I belong to a 12 member modular group, the Independent Hirailers Midwest Division.  All of our members modified our three track modules, and all of our yard modules to incorporate a "ground plane" between the tracks, and it didn't make a darn bit of different in performance to our railroad.  We particularly have problems with parallel tracks in yard areas. This issue is particularly prevalent at the Wisconsin State Fair Grounds in Milwaukee, when we set up at Trainfest.  Problem children locomotives display the typical flashing light discussed in this video.  

Oddly enough, the worst of the worst for locomotives are usually locomotives equipped with Mr. Reagan's former companies equipment, TAS EOB.  What finally cured my worst of the worst locomotive (WOW) was sticking a small "Rat tail" out of the top of the coal pile by about 1/8", which was also looped under the coal pile.  I disconnected the tender ground on this locomotive also.  It appears that having the locomotive antenna slightly elevated about the locomotive can make all the difference in the world.  This also squares with what Will Allen was doing with his locomotives on his old DUTRY railroad. 

In order to fully understand the nature of the radio signal, I would also recommend that in addition to this video, you read Dale Manquen's write-up here:

http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=317

In our case at Trainfest, it appears that the problem is related more to there being a lack of good earth ground and wiring ABOVE the railroad, so the signal doesn't have a good place to radiate from. 

I've run experiments over the years, where taking a simple wire, tied to the electrical outlet ground, held above the locomotive, and the problem goes completely away.  What also works, not quite as well, but works, is if you hold your hand over a problem locomotive (the "healing hand of health" LOL), which also gives a ground plane.  I have a hard time understanding why the latter actually works, since we are generally totally insulated from "ground" electrically (shoes), but it does work. 

Once other item that has made a huge difference in performance on our modular railroad is the substitution of a Legacy base for the old TMCC command base.  I'm amazed at the difference that change has made, and I'd love to know what is different about the Legacy base that allows it to function so much better than the TMCC base.  Does it radiate more signal out to the ground plane?  Don't know, but I'd sure like someone that knows a heck of a lot more about this than I to let me know. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

It's interesting that your EOB locomotives had additional issues, given that they use the exact same Lionel R2LC that Lionel locomotives use.

Isn't that the board Mike told me to replace on my problem locos back in this topic?

https://ogrforum.com/d...024#8187868175839024

The older boards have a coil on them that isn't shielded. The part number is in Mike's post near the end of the topic. They cost about $40 to replace. Not sure how hard it would be to create your own shield and tie it to the board's ground.

I guess my point as it relates to the original question is: it's not always the track that causes engines to have problems. If some engines work, and others don't, check that coil before you pull your hair out.

The only places I have had troubles are with parallel tracks  close together

Yes, quite.  I swapped the R2LC board with a known good installation, which is an almost identical locomotive (NP Z-6 vs. NP Z-8).  Didn't make a darn bit of difference. 

A fellow group member has the same locomotive, we ended up having to go with an external antenna on that locomotive too. 

Actually Elliot, that's the RailSounds power supply board, the R2LC is the TMCC receiver board, that's where the antenna connects.

The only thing I can think of is the routing of the antenna in the EOB backplane was problematic and sapped the signal strength.

For what it's worth, on Lionel steam locomotive model the TMCC antenna is connected to the hand railings on the locomotive boiler, i.e. one of the highest points above the rail head. The EOB antenna installation has GENERALLY been the tender shell, which is of course lower than the boiler hand railings.

Has anyone tried the fix of putting a wire in the coal pile in a U shape and connecting it to the antenna lead inside the tender?

Then filling the gouged out "U" with coal on top of the wire?

That's a method that is mentioned for installing the ERR upgrades.  I've never had occasion to install one that way.  FWIW, I've never had a problem with a steamer when I floated the tender shell and used it as the antenna.  It's a pretty big antenna, and the fact that it's not quite as "tall" as the locomotive doesn't seem to have any effect.  It's actually worked better than the isolated handrails in many cases.

Ah, Geez, how terrible!  I took four semesters of "fields" in EE after the freshman year.  This brings all that stuff back: I aced it but ugh, I also hated it . . .

This is why I use only UCS (the Universal Control Ssystem, also known as conventional). No hassle, no ground planes.  No issues with field reflections and all this stuff  . . .

same experience here.  3 layers of track 3-4 mains stacked. One small area had problem -I ran 10 ft of wire from water main next to the track-problem gone.  Run the trains first then add if needed. You ll find that youll have one or 2 engines that just dont pick up the signal as well and  will cause you to have to  put one in ,if at all.

When using an EOB equipped loco with Legacy it is best to set the "CONTROL" setting to Cab-1, in the engine menu. The loco will operate properly with a Legacy system in this setting.

Mike