Lionel is making changes to their Warranty Services. Only Lionel will repair products, dealer warranty repairs have been eliminated at the dealer level.
Here is the link.
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I hope they have the man power for the increase in work.
Fortunately for me I live about 1 hour from Concord. I have previously taken warranty repair items direct to Lionel since I trust myself to take better care of transporting my trains to and from Lionel than the common carriers.
Interesting.
@superwarp1 posted:I hope they have the man power for the increase in work.
Gary said a mouthful. They will not only need more techs but trained techs. Hopefully they have this all planned out. Unfortunately where a former service center could do a menial repair with warranty parts now this fall directly back to customer service.
I’m not sure for the high end Legacy stuff this is much of a change for the majority of us but I’d just hate to see them get swamped with starter sets and smaller items that the service centers used to fix.
Again I’ll wait and see.
My trains always break after the warranty period.
Jon 
Didn't at one point MTH offer extended warranties? What ever became of that?
Sad to say I wasn't very impressed with Lionel's Concord, NC Service up until now.
I had my first and very likely my last Factory Warranty Repair last year.
Berkshire Lion chief Plus 2.0 Locomotive had 4 issues listed to repair.
1.The smoke unit had a wheezing sound and didn't chuff smoke. (Fan unit was replaced.)
2. One of the drivers wobbles. (Wasn't repaired or addressed. Still wobbles.)
3. Front driver axle intermittently makes a fairly loud clunk clunk clunk sound that one can hear and feel while running if you lightly touch the boiler while it runs. (Said they didn't hear it. perhaps they just couldn't get it to do this or they didn't look. I don't know. It did it on its first run when I got it back.)
4. The chuffing sounds are very low volume compared to the rest of the sounds and my lion chief starter set locomotive chuffs. (Wasn't addressed or even mentioned. Yes I have adjusted the volume through the app.)
It took about a month to get it back.
I know that in the grand scheme of new O Gauge items $500.00 may not be much. I know that nothing is perfect, however I expected a little better from Lionel. I thought that Lionel would repair the issues or at the very least address all of them.
This doesn't come as big surprise to me. While I know of a very competent repair tech in a neighboring state, I, unfortunately had a local (PA) Lionel repair tech make some bad gaffes, all the while they're ordering and replacing parts that were, in all likelihood, not even broken. In one particularly aggravating case, after replacement of some electronic board, it turned out to be a defective Molex connector; $140 worth of parts replaced for a twenty-five cent connector...and he kept all the parts too; this type of thing undoubtedly gets expensive for Lionel, and the consumer if the item is out of warranty. I had another local repair tech replace modules in brand new engines that other techs later told me only needed to be reprogrammed. In still other cases, techs replaced smoke units that other techs later said only needed servicing, oiling, etc. None of this stuff is cheap, and while my experiences are anecdotal, perhaps they're common given Lionel's policy.
With Lionel's new policy, I surmise they'll at least be able to track and record what's been done, which if done diligently, may eventually reduce the number of "repairs of repairs" and part orders and repair expenses.
@PSU1980 posted:Lionel is making changes to their Warranty Services. Only Lionel will repair products, dealer warranty repairs have been eliminated at the dealer level.
Here is the link.
Actually, only Lionel will do warranty repairs on products, a big difference from "Only Lionel will repair products". 
I'm actually happy to see this change, I have no issue with not having to do the paperwork involved with warranty repairs.
@Paul Kallus posted:This doesn't come as big surprise to me. While I know of a very competent repair tech in a neighboring state, I, unfortunately had a local (PA) Lionel repair tech make some bad gaffes, all the while they're ordering and replacing parts that were, in all likelihood, not even broken ...
Paul,
Are you telling us that, based on your experience, it's likely that most Lionel Service Centers around the country are incompetent, and that's why this change is being made?
Or, are you asking us if we've all had similar experiences to yours, justifying the same conclusion?
Either way, if the Service Network is that bad, this hobby is in BIG trouble. If the market leader and its network can't do the job many entry level purchases will lead to nothing but frustration for the newbies coming in. Not good for long-term business.
Hopefully there's another reason they're making this change. Like maybe cost reduction?
Mike
Lionel hasn't had any service classes since Mike R. left Lionel. Since then us service guys have been 'flying by the seat of our pants' when new items and systems have come out. I would think Lionel is getting tired of sending out 'free parts' under warranty and paying the tech or shop for labor also, when the part order doesn't fix the problem. This way all parts must be paid for by the shop or person. Service notes and bulletins would be of help.
@Chuck Sartor posted:Lionel hasn't had any service classes since Mike R. left Lionel. Since then us service guys have been 'flying by the seat of our pants' when new items and systems have come out. I would think Lionel is getting tired of sending out 'free parts' under warranty and paying the tech or shop for labor also, when the part order doesn't fix the problem. This way all parts must be paid for by the shop or person. Service notes and bulletins would be of help.
What Lionel pays a service station is pathetic. I know many places that dropped repairs for just that issue.
@ThatGuy posted:What Lionel pays a service station is pathetic. I know many places that dropped repairs for just that issue.
I have always avoided warranty repairs if possible.
I know I get quite often - "Will you just take a look at it. (for free!)" This is what happened in the past with MTH purchases from elsewhere, and I suspect now with Lionel as well. It will be painful to tell the person that yes I could fix that in 10-20 min but I can't do it due to Lionel's policy. Instead they will have to send it in and wait 1-3 months.
Jim
@Jim Sandman posted:I know I get quite often - "Will you just take a look at it. (for free!)" This is what happened in the past with MTH purchases from elsewhere, and I suspect now with Lionel as well. It will be painful to tell the person that yes I could fix that in 10-20 min but I can't do it due to Lionel's policy. Instead they will have to send it in and wait 1-3 months.
Jim
And pay high shipping rates to get it back to Lionel.
Well, when one talks of service, has anyone else noticed that quite some time ago, (like many years) Lionel quit posting downloadable service manuals and bulletins for newer trains? Check it out for yourself. I truly believe Lionel stopped writing and publishing these service manuals etc. even for internal use way back then!
On the plus side, you still can download the instruction manuals that came with a train purchase, not that they even broach the subject of how to service, or illustrated parts diagrams, or even part numbers for anything new. If you check for parts, not all repair parts are even available to the consumer!
Just stating the real state of Lionel third party service - no resources from Lionel to help you out.
So the dealer lets his repair man go(if they have one) and no online manuals what do you do with out of warranty items? I know get a bigger trash can.
Gunny
@gunny posted:So the dealer lets his repair man go(if they have one) and no online manuals what do you do with out of warranty items? I know get a bigger trash can.
Gunny
Well, after all, it is disposable income. I cringe when something goes wrong with out of warranty trains. You are on your own. Turn those high end locos into dummies and take the hit on Ebay or trash them and buy the newest wiz bang featured loco.
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Paul,
Are you telling us that, based on your experience, it's likely that most Lionel Service Centers around the country are incompetent, and that's why this change is being made?
Or, are you asking us if we've all had similar experiences to yours, justifying the same conclusion?
Either way, if the Service Network is that bad, this hobby is in BIG trouble. If the market leader and its network can't do the job many entry level purchases will lead to nothing but frustration for the newbies coming in. Not good for long-term business.
Hopefully there's another reason they're making this change. Like maybe cost reduction?
Mike
Mike, I did state that my experiences are anecdotal. About a year ago, I had asked a Lionel customer rep if they could recommend a repair person, and she gave me only one contact - and it was the same person I already knew of, and not surprisingly that person is very busy. It seems logical that there are many other competent techs around the country. Finding them and getting on their schedule seems to be the trick.
@Paul Kallus posted:Mike, I did state that my experiences are anecdotal. About a year ago, I had asked a Lionel customer rep if they could recommend a repair person, and she gave me only one contact - and it was the same person I already knew of, and not surprisingly that person is very busy. It seems logical that there are many other competent techs around the country. Finding them and getting on their schedule seems to be the trick.
To be Frank, until we start pushing back against terrible warranty service it will not change.
@jini5 posted:Well, after all, it is disposable income. I cringe when something goes wrong with out of warranty trains. You are on your own. Turn those high end locos into dummies and take the hit on Ebay or trash them and buy the newest wiz bang featured loco.
I am beginning to feel like " a fool and his money are soon parted" High price and crappy service
This is unacceptable... you want be to pack up a $1200 engine and ship it across the country to get it fixed. Lionel packaging is not designed to survive the UPS and Fedex. Not to mention the long wait times. i have sent in my 990 Remote set to them 11 months ago with still no update. is this going to be the Norm.
@roberttrains925 posted:This is unacceptable... you want be to pack up a $1200 engine and ship it across the country to get it fixed. Lionel packaging is not designed to survive the UPS and Fedex. Not to mention the long wait times. i have sent in my 990 Remote set to them 11 months ago with still no update. is this going to be the Norm.
just wait in the new catalog 2 grand plus.......then poof its yours, have a nice day
@Jim Sandman posted:I know I get quite often - "Will you just take a look at it. (for free!)" This is what happened in the past with MTH purchases from elsewhere, and I suspect now with Lionel as well. It will be painful to tell the person that yes I could fix that in 10-20 min but I can't do it due to Lionel's policy. Instead they will have to send it in and wait 1-3 months.
Jim
Couldn't you just tell the person "Yes, I can fix it in about 20 minutes for $50 (or whatever), or else you're free to send it back to Lionel for repair, but that could take 1-3 months?"
I know what I'd do!
@breezinup posted:Couldn't you just tell the person yes, I can fix it in about 20 minutes for $50 (or whatever), or else you're free to send it back to Lionel for repair, but that could take 1-3 months? I know what I'd do!
Lots of folks would be swearing at you as well, maybe you enjoy that type of thing!
Jim
I didn’t mind doing warranty repairs to the basic starter sets with electronic e-units and can motors, and TMCC equipment that used the RLC boards, but now it seems every Lionel loco I work on has some unique board in it that I don’t have in stock.
How much does a non-warranty repair cost (excluding any parts)? I sent in one of my engines recently and the maintenance tech did a great job, but had to wait about a month. I also never got a notice that repairs were complete or a tracking number to track the fixed engine through the mail.
If choosing between voiding the warranty and not risking a loss through the mail vs shipping off in the mail and not knowing when it'll show up at my doorstep, I might bite the "voided warranty" bullet for minor issues. But that depends on how much a repair typically costs...
@ThatGuy posted:I am beginning to feel like " a fool and his money are soon parted" High price and crappy service
BINGO
Bachmann takes up to three months, especially after Christmas, but Bachmann often just replaces the loco or gives you a free upgrade.
Of course the difference in cost of Lionel vs Bachmann makes that difficult for Lionel to replicate.
John
These are the very reasons why many do not wish to purchase trains with the heavily integrated electronics' and simply stay with low tech trains. They hear of issues like these or have experienced them themselves and swear off purchasing such equipment.
Until there is a high degree of confidence in warranty repairs by Lionel, improved product quality and parts availability - I can't imagine many changing their minds about buying a high tech engine.
For goodness sake, who wants to be stuck with a $1,200 - $1,400 engine that can't be repaired because the a circuit board is no longer available just 3-5 years after production?
Money is getting tighter by the day and losses of this nature can't be sustained by the average consumer.
I look at the really nice pictures in the catalog and shake my head at the prices - even for a simple box car. And even that may have issues because of the truck design.
@Allegheny posted:These are very the reasons why many do not wish to purchase trains with the heavily integrated electronics' and simply stay with low tech trains. They hear of issues like these or have experienced them themselves and swear off purchasing such equipment.
Until there is a high degree of confidence in warranty repairs by Lionel, improved product quality and parts availability - I can't imagine many changing their minds about buying a high tech engine.
For goodness sake, who wants to be stuck with a $1,200 - $1,400 engine that can't be repaired because the a circuit board is no longer available just 3-5 years after production?
Money is getting tighter by the day and losses of this nature can't be sustained by the average consumer.
I look at the really nice pictures in the catalog and shake my head at the prices - even for a simple box car. And even that may have issues because of the truck design.
Lionel has two major issues as I see it. First price, in the new catalog engines well over 2 grand...really? Lets look at some facts, the electronics in Lionel engines may have changed some but truth be told there is really no new ground breaking going on, just some program changes and upgrades. The separate parts they use are very cheap and widely available. I also cannot forget the story of " we moved to China to keep prices low". There response will always be its the design and research, another ghost story. With auto CAD it has never been easier to go from pre to full production. Lets face it Lionel exploits the orange and blue box. The second issue is very simply, once out of warranty the answer is ....what engine? Can you imagine buying a high cost computer or any other device and after a year and not a full year when you buy it, but when produced. Finding out its yours have a nice day......Oh by the way you can buy a newer version for more money? Lionel is in a death spiral, higher prices locks out more buyers forcing higher prices.
So my decision has been made all of my equipment is going dcc battery operated. I get the same great sounds i can repair it or replace the electronics with off the shelf decoders ESU offers Smoke units that you can program for steam whistle or blow down. Best of all worlds. Also has anyone noticed the newer feature pick you whistle and bell. Can any guess why that became a thing. Hint they got rid of there sound engineer. Why do you think all the sounds are generic and they don't make locomotive specific sounds anymore.
@breezinup posted:Couldn't you just tell the person yes, I can fix it in about 20 minutes for $50 (or whatever), or else you're free to send it back to Lionel for repair, but that could take 1-3 months? I know what I'd do!
Lots of folks would be swearing at you as well, maybe you enjoy that type of thing!
Jim
What, like they wouldn't be swearing at you if you told them, as you said, when the customer asks "Will you just take a look at it (for free), that yes, I could fix that in 10-20 min but I can't do it due to Lionel's policy, and instead they will have to send it in and wait 1-3 months? That sounds like a guaranteed way to provoke a customer!
@breezinup posted:Lots of folks would be swearing at you as well, maybe you enjoy that type of thing!
Jim
What, like they wouldn't be swearing at you if you told them, as you said, when the customer asks "Will you just take a look at it (for free), that yes, I could fix that in 10-20 min but I can't do it due to Lionel's policy, and instead they will have to send it in and wait 1-3 months? That sounds like a guaranteed way to provoke a customer!
Here is the other issue, people do not want to pay to fix a complex toy. The "hey can you take a look, is bogus at best" First try going to any professional and ask for just a look see, good luck with that. For what ever reason people put very little value on a TECH guy.
@ThatGuy posted:Here is the other issue, people do not want to pay to fix a complex toy. The "hey can you take a look, is bogus at best" First try going to any professional and ask for just a look see, good luck with that. For what ever reason people put very little value on a TECH guy.
You're close. They put a high value on a tech, and take the time to find one, then they complain about how much the tech gets paid because of that high value.
Typical logic.
Mike
@jini5 posted:I cringe when something goes wrong with out of warranty trains. You are on your own. Turn those high end locos into dummies and take the hit on Ebay or trash them and buy the newest wiz bang featured loco.
There are plenty of techs on this forum more than capable of fixing your out of warranty trains. Including one member who was the formerly head of Lionels CS.
I would trust them more than the techs at Lionel these days.
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:You're close. They put a high value on a tech, and take the time to find one, then they complain about how much the tech gets paid because of that high value.
Typical logic.
Mike
I run into this all the time, people ask me to take a look or can you convert my engine to TMCC. Well yes I can but a steamer is going to take some time, then you get " how much? I know a guy who can do it for a few bucks" my response is take it to them, but when it comes back and I have to fix it, its going to cost you.
To start with, I find BTO and Big Orange's massive price increases over the last decade......undigestable.
Add to that locomotives that increasingly show up needing work when new, out of the box.....including Vision Line pieces.....that now have to be shipped back to Big Orange....and Big Orange only.
This is NOT money well spent in my book.....even if it is hobby money.
p.s. - if you ship something back to Concord and it sits there...for whatever reason...it eats into your warranty period, increasingly the likelihood that your item will come back to you still needing work....but now out of the warranty period. To me, this is one step away from Fraud.
@ThatGuy posted:I run into this all the time, people ask me to take a look or can you convert my engine to TMCC. Well yes I can but a steamer is going to take some time, then you get " how much? I know a guy who can do it for a few bucks" my response is take it to them, but when it comes back and I have to fix it, its going to cost you.
I can assure you, anyone that comes to me for a full conversion of a conventional steamer to TMCC with full smoke features, etc. isn't going to get a quote of "a few bucks". 
