Locomotive Headlight Placement

Different railroads had/have different reasons for "high mounted" or "low mounted" headlights on diesel units:

1) I recall the Santa Fe cab crews did NOT like the "high mounted" headlights, because the light would be diffused/deflected by fog and/or dust storms, and reflect back into the cab. Thus, the "low mounted" headlights were specified from the builders.

2) As a result of someone burning themselves on a "hot headlight bulb", mounted in the lore position, i.e. on the front of the low short hood, some railroads then began specifying "high mounted" headlights from the builders

I suspect each railroad has it's own rationale for doing what they do with headlights. Some apparently feel the lower headlight illuminates the tracks right  ahead of the engine better, while some feel a higher headlight shines farther down the track. Not dissimilar to steam engines, where some railroads had the headlight in front of the smokestack, some high on the front of the boiler, some centered on the door in front, and some down near the steps over the pilot.

.......and railroads even differed on the placement of the headlight on the smokebox door:  Southern Pacific, lower/Soo Line higher!

EMD posted:

Hi Everyone,

This is a subject that I haven't seen mentioned, so I will throw it out to the engineers.

When running, does the placement of the locomotive's headlight (high - above the windows or low - on the nose) make a tangible difference.

Thanks.

 

Yes, it does. Just as HW explained above, in fog and snow, the light reflects back into your eyes causing quite a strain on the eyes, especially when you are trying to make out a signal in the thick fog. 

It was also nice to have a loco with a setup where the headlight and ditch lights worked separately instead of together. It was nice to be able to dim the bright headlight, getting rid of the glare, and keep the ditch lights on bright in the fog.

Guys, Many thanks for the replies.

Jim, Any specific reason why NS specs a high headlight?

EMD posted:

Guys, Many thanks for the replies.

Jim, Any specific reason why NS specs a high headlight?

Well, being as safety conscience as NS is, it is probably so no one would get burnt on the low headlight.  I really don't know why they do some of the things they do.

An interesting thread, thanks for the info guys. 

I have actually used those low headlights to warm my hands, with gloves on of course, in cold weather.

Seaboard often changed the location of the headlight during modifications to the same engine, as can be seen by photos.  Engines they bought from other RRs also had their location changed from high to middle of smokebox door.

Never knew why until now, thanks Jack and Jim!

What's the reason for having a headlight?  The train wouldn't be able to stop in time anyway would it?  It was my understanding that English engines did not have them, at least on steam.  Maybe more for people not on the train?

You're kidding I hope.  

Consider for a moment the number of crossings in this country that aren't protected by crossing gates or lights.  Would you really want to be crossing one of them on a dark rainy night having to look for trains operating at speeds of 50, 60 or even 70 mph while operating with no headlights?

And in England, the railroads generally run in a fenced right of way with no unprotected crossings.

Curt

I take it from your answer that the headlight is for people who are not on  the train.  I'm surprised that in England all right of way is fenced and all crossings protected.  Earlier posts seemed to talk only from the train crews perspective.

John Mills posted:

I take it from your answer that the headlight is for people who are not on  the train.  I'm surprised that in England all right of way is fenced and all crossings protected.  Earlier posts seemed to talk only from the train crews perspective.

So,,,,,,you don't think that the locomotive cab crew needs to see as far ahead as possible, in the dark? How about watching for the position of turnouts within yard limits, foreign objects on the track, possible washouts near creeks/rivers, etc, etc, etc?

I'm only asking questions.  How far do locomotive headlights allow you to see?  Can a train going faster than 30mph reasonably stop in time? What did the English do about those problems?  Did they not care?  Also does putting the headlight higher work better for railroads in hilly terrain vs. the water level route? 

no doubt that Mars lights were used to get the attention of pedestrians and vehicle operators...

perhaps merely for convenience?
where else could the NKP have stuck them?

cheers...gary

John Mills posted:

I'm only asking questions.  How far do locomotive headlights allow you to see?  Can a train going faster than 30mph reasonably stop in time?

Well, you would be surprised (especially since they came out with the ditch lights) given that you aren't trying to see around a curve. Which, at least here in the east, you are.