LTI Northern repair advice - 4/5/20 update

I believe that both of the relevant hobby mags (OGR and CTT) have done articles addressing the various problems.  If you have the digital OGR subscription you can access theirs.  IIRC, the CTT article was VERY early, like 1988 or so.  If you need me to, I can look in the next day or so to find a date.

I've seen the past posts on this forum regarding the bearing replacement, my question is how do I know if I really have the bearing problem, and separate question how hard is it to replace the smoke cam without having and wheel tools.

Don

For what it is worth, Lionel has the service documents here:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...191-8001Complete.pdf

bmoran4 posted:

For what it is worth, Lionel has the service documents here:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...191-8001Complete.pdf

Thanks!  I was wondering why I couldn't find it searching "18001".  Interestingly it does not show the smoke cam.

Here is a thread that I started when I repaired mine.  It was noisy and very stiff to move.  After the "fix" it runs like butta.

Lackawanna and Delaware Repair

Hi all,

So I got the necessary parts and completed the motor repair.  However something is wrong.
I replaced the front and rear bearings, reassembled, and the shaft no longer has slop and spins freely.  Wheels also spin freely with no binding.  But when power is applied it runs for a few revolutions then hesitates with a squealing sound.  Motor makes similar sound when not mounted to the chassis.  Here is a video of it.  Anyone have any suggestions as to what might be wrong?  It was a fun learning experience but at this point I'm ready to just buy a new or used motor.

Thanks, Don

It honestly sounds like you have a dry or worn bearing, shaft, or gear somewhere... oil and grease.

If you have gone over everything and lubed it well, and have reviewed @MartyE's linked post, I may leave this out here (not specifically recommending this, but at least you will be in the know):

Since you did mess with the internal bearings and such, you may want to carefully and ever so slight tweak the set screw on the underside of the frame (600-8002-531). Lionel says this is set from the factory and to never touch it, but again, as you have potentially modified the geometry, a very minor tweak may be necessary. Carefully, with even more precision than adjusting a carburetor adjustment, see if you can find a slight adjustment that lines things up. Don't loose count of any partial turns you have taken so you can always reset it back to its initial position. I will reiterate, consider this adjustment as a later resort as I find your noise to be more indicative of a dry or worn bearing, shaft, or gear.

EDIT: P.S. On another note, this similar locomotive exploded diagram shows the smoke cam:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...26-18016Complete.pdf

Make sure the bearings are oiled.

I've had AC motors make that noise and jerking motion when the brushes aren't tight enough. They pop up off the commutator and the motor stalls, then they fall back down and it restarts. Try putting a bit more tension on the brush springs and make sure the brushes move freely in the brush wells.

Sounds to me like the armature just needs oiling. My Aurora race cars used to make the same noise and act the same way when they needed oiling.

Thanks all for the replies.

I did oil the armature shaft, but I'll take it apart tonight and check again.  Do you recommend oil or grease for the shaft/bearings?  I'll also check the brushes.

Don

OK, I tore it down again.  Added a drop oil to the inside of each bearing, plus on the armature shaft.  
Cleaned brushes again.    Re-assembled, plenty of RednTacky on the gear. Checked gear lash which was good as is (1/2 turn on the adjustment screw made it too tight).  Now it runs without stalling and without the noise.

Next I noticed it it ran better in rev than fwd.  Applied the bread bag clip trick to prevent the drive axle from shifting and now fwd/rev seem about the same.

However, it requires full throttle.  At first I was using 1033.  It does run better with my ZW-C.  I can slowly pull a string of 19 traditional size tank cars but needs 18V to do so.  I've been pulling the same string of cars with a Weaver RS-3 at lower voltage.

Is this normal for the pullmor motors?  I read in a previous post about uneven field winding and do notice this a bit on mine so I may try fixing that.

Next step is smoke unit - smokes OK  but has a burning smell (not the smoke fluid), so could be wick is burnt.

Don

there’s no comparison between your Pullmor equipped locomotive, and your weaver RS3. Your weaver has can motors, that don’t require as much amperage to move......a better test on a loop would be to run it light with no cars and report back what the voltage is, and more importantly, how many amps is it drawing. 19 cars may be excessive for a test.....hard to say how the performance is, especially if one or more tank cars don’t roll really freely..........Pat  

The 18001 by itself pulling only the tender runs at what I would call low-medium speed @12v, 2.5A

For comparison I put my MPC 8404 turbine (also a pullmor motor) on with the same string of tank cars and it pulled them easily at 11V.  I think the 18001 motor is just a dog.  I may try to get a PW motor to swap.

Don

Finally running better!

I purchased a used 736 motor on Ebay.  Took it apart, cleaned, oiled, etc.  Installed on the 18001 and it now runs very smooth - much quieter that the original motor.  My advice to anyone else thinking about rebuilding the motor on one of these - spend a few extra $ and save time by just replacing it with a postwar motor.

I also replaced the smoke wick and sealed the smoke unit.  Smoke output could be better.  I think a lot is lost through the steam chest.  Cool feature but I may try plugging the ports to get more smoke through the stack.   

Next step - replace the SOS with ERR sound.

Don

I have the 18003 Lackawanna.  This beautiful engine is worth fixing.  I had it done years ago and then added ERR sound.  You will not be disappointed.  Smoke is anemic at best but also worth tinkering with.

I had the 18003 lackawanna and the motor on that was noisy too. One thing I found was the rivers that hold the motor stack together were not tight and the whole thing vibrates when running. I pressed them tighter and it helped but still not 736 quiet. Just another thing to look at.

Look at my very first post in this thread. I "fix" the smoke issue.

https://ogrforum.com/...-6-18011-mods?page=1