Methods of wiring

I have both systems and highly recommend two things:

1. wire via MTH as it is also easier to diagnose problems

2. MTH still sells Barry's book BUY IT! best investment ever!!!

What book are you referring to? I have a ton of how to books. I may already have it. Or I would like to purchase  it if it gives me more knowledge about wiring schemes.

DCS Companion latest rev. Gold!

Rod

For optimal control when running conventional, my experience is that the best approach is to use is to have many relatively short blocks, each controlled by a toggle switch.  This permits operation of several locos on the same "power district"/handle.  This is how my final layout was butilt in the early 90s, and it worked great.  Then, after the turn of the century, my son gave me a complete DCS system.  No way was I going to rewire that behemoth, and I still had many conventional locos.  So I just dropped in the DCS system, did a few tweaks with light bulbs, and have been running DCS ever since, with no problems.  I have a common buss for all track and accessory and light common (ground), and from each of the 6 TIU channels, power goes to a section of the control panel, feeds through 10-20 toggle switches, and then goes out to each block thru 14-gauge wire.

There are many of us who do not use the so-called star wiring system.  It certainly is not friendly to conventional operation if you want to run many trains at once.

Thanks! That was the most helpful article I read yet. It sounds like you have a really large layout. Do you run any Lionel TMCC or Legacy engines on your railroad? I never had any problems running my few TMCC engines with last layout many years ago. Lionel system seems so **** complicated compared to MTH. I have heard running Lionel stuff on a large layout can be troublesome because of their use of the ground rail for an antenna. I saw that on Eric's Trains You Tube channel.

Wire it for DCS and then connect the Lionel command base wire to the common .

MTH requires star wiring and blocks for the most reliable operation.

Tmcc/Legacy has no "preferred wiring style".

 I was in the same situation as RJR. An already functioning conventional layout with common ground buss wiring trying to incorporate DCS. Once I got into command with TMCC and DCS I wasn’t going to run conventional. I had no need for toggles except in the passenger yard sidings and engine facilities. The rest were removed. The ones that remained. The track power is done with relays. Eliminating long runs back and forth through toggles. All done with common ground. The more recent area does incorporate some star wiring. I use Gargraves track and Ross turnouts. Pretty much every rail has an attached wire. I think relying on track pins or joiners to power up a long block with star wiring may give you problems down the road. Unless the rails are joined by jumper wires.  I believe the biggest key wiring your layout.  Is to use quality wire and secure connections. Not so much how it’s done as far as star wiring or common ground. I use fourteen gauge feeders soldered to twelve gauge buss wiring. I’ve seen both methods yield great results. Keep your switch motors on a separate power source.

 What you do need to keep in mind when running TMCC.  Is the ground plane issue when tracks pass over one another. I had one area in a hidden tunnel that had a loss of signal with some engines. Easily fixed with a wire over the problem area run to a wall outlet. 

RJR posted:

...

There are many of us who do not use the so-called star wiring system.  It certainly is not friendly to conventional operation if you want to run many trains at once.

I guess this addresses an issue about track connections and power dips? Otherwise I can't see why you'd state this? I believe you're pointing out the type of track and it's weakness?

 I believe that many cure power loss by adding extra connections via buss wiring. That is not the only cure. Good track joints would also solve it on many brands of track. I'd agree not all brands or types.

When I test my outside layout, I drop the TIU out of the chain and run a couple of engines to see how they react around the backyard. They'll point out any area where there's a bad track joint real fast. Running 2 or 3 engines at once, helps by having a larger power draw where one engine might not show an issue.

That said, I am running star wiring on all my layouts. May not work for everyone. I just think it's unfair to post against trying it. If you can't have good track joints, or the type of track won't conduct power well, the DCS signal probably won't be well either. Where I've had good power flow, the signal came with it.

Dave C, I do not have long runs back & forth.  Power goes from TIU directly to control panel, and then out to blocks.  I agree completely with your choice of wire gauge.  When I built 8x4 layouts with centralized control panels for young grandkids, I used 16 gauge. For anything larger, 14 gauge with a 12 gauge common buss.

When I built my layout about 1992, relays were expensive.  The cheap Chinese relays hadn't arrived.  But when I rebuilt my postwar Lionel gantry crane to move, I used relays and cheap power supplies for those relays, so I have 22 gauge wire running from panel to crane.

Electrically, I can see no difference between running power to the center of a layout and then running feeds from there to blocks, or running it to a control panel and running feeds from there to blocks.

No, Joe. I'm not addressing track.  I'm addressing control.

Just to condense my (and other's) feelings on the matter: wire it with DCS in mind.

TMCC is more robust and flexible, and can overcome most things - in fact, it seldom has issues per the layout and signal. (The "ground plane" issue does exist, but seldom happens; typically it comes up with stacked metal bridges and the like.)

I agree with those that said to wire it for DCS (star pattern), then run on wire from the TMCC/Legacy Command Base to the common ground.  This has worked on my small Super O layout as well as the large floor layout that we used to set up at meets (25' x 25').  Both systems work very well and compliment each other on any layout.  You MUST have a well grounded outlet in order for TMCC to work (we had a bad one at a train meet once and could not run TMCC until we ran a separate ground from another outlet.  This will not happen in a modern home with proper ground and is a separate issue from the "Ground Plane" issue that D500 described (above).

Alan D

MTH still sells Barry's Books, DCS Companion and DCS Wireless Companion in digital format. Trust me they are what you want to use. Barry was the MOST knowledgeable person when it came to DCS. MTH even paid tribute to him in the beginning of their 2019 Volume 2 catalog.

The DCS Companion book is everything for the remote with some wireless added. The DCS Wireless Companion deals with the Wireless side and the MTH App.

I run remotely via handheld remote, Wireless with MTH app ( top version ), TMMC and Legacy along with some conventional. ALL DONE VIA MTH DCS WIRING and MTH app or remote with NO PROBLEMS!

Curtis

Alan,

MTH sends the signal through the common rail.  I have insulation pins in my center rail for blocks and the DCS works fine.

Side Rod

"MTH sends the signal through the common rail."

DCS uses center rail, if you have red TIU terminal connected to center rail.

D500 posted:

Just to condense my (and other's) feelings on the matter: wire it with DCS in mind.

TMCC is more robust and flexible, and can overcome most things - in fact, it seldom has issues per the layout and signal. (The "ground plane" issue does exist, but seldom happens; typically it comes up with stacked metal bridges and the like.)

Nailed it pretty tightly 🤔

Make even sized isolated blocks out of each power drop around a line; each drop centered on about every 6pc of track per block.

RJR, data signals can sort of perform a looping and cause echoing and mabe the loco sees it twice. No telling what the loco "brain" might be looking for numerically already, exactly when the data comes around turnout #2 for it's second pass in a micro-second later, hitting its own data tail end like a long train on a small reverse loop...except merging, and the data string is now "random numbers" but still read, the chip isn't smart enough to see that merge and stop reading.

 Maybe a new command used fixes it, maybe a reset, et.. but the wiring runs suggested really should help keep that issue at bay.   I've had data jump 3ft airborne into a similar but unrelated machines data lines too.

 MTH DCS is a little more sensitive to this and tmcc gr.plane issues are a case by case; Lay it; test it, move any plane/signal around near the issue as needed until it's gone.