Milw 261 headlight visor help

Get yourself some sheet brass that looks about the right thickness, cut and bend the hood, file it to final shape, paint it black, and attach it with super glue. It will be a fair amount of work, but you'll have the satisfaction of having a detail on your engine that nobody else has. To quote the Nike ad, just do it!

Do you know anywhere to get sheet brass?

I made one for my Lionel Mikado Jr out of the lid of a soup can.  Don't really need to go out and buy brass for it.

 

Just used some metal shears to cut it to the shape I wanted, bent it over something like a screwdriver and superglued it to the headlight.  I also went back and painted the whole headlight and visor black (headlight came painted the same as the rest of the smokebox). In my opinion, it really improved the looks of the engine along with the painted handrail, marker lights and smokebox supports.

 

 

http://s1034.photobucket.com/a...current=13e30f4d.jpg

I get mine at Ace Hardware. They have all kinds of metal stock - sheet brass and aluminum, tubing, rod stock, threaded rod, you name it. 

I get my sheet, rod and tube brass at Ace as well.

Decent hobby shops carry all that stuff as well - my LHS carries a large variety of all kinds and shapes of metal and plastic stock.

That's true, but Ace Hardware are much more prolific than the LHS, at least in central TN.  My "Local" Hobby Shop is 25 miles away, my local Ace is 2.  I've never compared prices, but the prices at Ace are surprisingly reasonable.

I tried the brass and it worked very well. Thank you to call picture will follow shortly

I want to do the visor treatment to my Lionel Illinois Central steamer locos. I have been wondering how to affix the sheet metal visor in place securely. Even well secured with superglue, it will require careful handling and storage to avoid damage to it. Nice job, Zeke. 

If you use cyanoacrylate and have good clean flush mounting surfaces,  you should get a pretty tough bond.

Until I bumped it yesterday, the "aluminum can" visor on my mikado had been in place for a few years with no issues.  Took me 5 minutes to reglue it.  Now I just need to go to my LHS for some more gloss black paint for some touchup work.

I used clear super gorilla glue and it worked like a charm.

#261 finished product

Looks good; I've made several of these, using your technique and a harder one involving

brass tubing and modifying the lens. I'm going back to the simpler way.

 

Brass sheet can also be found at Hobby Lobby; not sure my local (small) Ace handles

it. Must check.

The 261 did not originally have a shielded headlight when the Milwaukee Road ran it.The 261 also did not have the shielded headlight when it began excursion runs in 1993.Not sure when they added the shield,but I do know my dad hates it.

Dan

 

         

For me I prefer the look of the headlight because I grew up with steam locomovites with the shielded (NH&I 40, BRW 60, GW 90) I didn't really like the 261 with out it since it currently has it and I grew up in the era when they used it. It's just normal to me haha.

You might also like to consider taking the red Mars Light off. The real 261 no longer has the red Mars Light on the front, as of two months ago.

I think their going to put the mars light back on when the put the finishing touches on her

Not according to recent "statements" from folks at the Friends of 261".

I just read it on a web site and was surpised. They want to go for an as delivered look. So no mars light

I just read it on a web site and was surpised. They want to go for an as delivered look. So no mars light

Would I lie to you?

Just think of all the trouble Lionel could have saved themselves if they knew this and left if off their model.

Now i'm wondering how hard it is to take the mars light off of my 261. To me this engine means a lot so i would hate to damage the mars light beyond repair. Has anyone attempted removing the mars light?

Lets wait and see what they decide to do.  Honestly though I think the off set bell looks silly without the mars light.  Just my opinion.

Wouldn't that also mean a new(old) smokebox front?  It would be an improvement IMHO.

 

Image: Model Railroader Cyclopedia Vol. 1 Steam Locomotives A. C. Kalmbach Publishing Co. c1960

 

Rusty

I totally agree. Its just like a wide open space on the engineers side with out it. Fingers crossed they'll center the bell haha

The offset bell is a Milwaukee Road hallmark. Most of their big steam was set up this way. Locomotives that were delivered in the 1920's had the bell moved in the 30's when they were refurbished or upgraded. Both the USRA Mikados and the F6 Baltics were delivered with center mounted bells, which were later moved. In fact, I bugged Weaver to move the bell to the side on the F6a, because they were using cab numbers from after the rebuild. I don't see it as odd-looking at all, it just is what it is. 

I guess we all see things a little different.  Diversity of opinion is a great thing.

I'm glad to hear that Milw. 261 will be running again soon.   I hope it has the red Mars light back on it and the visor OFF the headlight.  It never had a visor in Milwaukee service, nor did any other of the Milwaukee's  modern freight or passenger locomotives.  I believe the 261s crew, put a visor on the light when they ran the engine back East, and also painted Delaware Lackawanna & Western on the tender.    A visor on a DL&W, looks fine, and it also looks correct on the C&NW or the Frisco, and many other roads.  But on the Milwaukee 261, I have to agree with Dan 986s dad.  It looks Wrong, and I hate it too !   I hope they take it OFF.

    I have the real headlight from Milw. S3  262 and it looks beautiful with no visor.

 

   Craig Hanson,   Vay, Idaho

uhhh, how did you get your hands on that headlight from the 262??? Pictures please!

Interesting you brought up the round smokebox front.I am pretty sure the Friends of the 261 mentioned they had the opportunity to buy the original style smokebox from the Illinois Railway museum and use it on the engine.The news was in a flyer the Friends sent me about a year or two ago.It showed a picture of the smokebox front sitting at the museum.I think I have this right,I remember that the purchase price seemed very high.I will try to dig up the flyer,or maybe the information can be found on the Friends of the 261 website. 

Dan 

Well I think the visor was put on cause its better for night running then with out the visor. But for some reason no mars light looks better on the original smoke box cover.

Exactly right.  The smokebox cover being used looks unfinished to me without the mars and off set bell alone.  With the as delivered cover it looks just fine to me with the off set bell, just like Milwaukee ran them.

 

Notice the indentations or residual plating where the mars is supposed to be that you can see in this photo.

 

 

I love the look of the as delivered smoke box. The head light with out the visor looks good on it as well. But I grew to love 261's interesting face

Zett asked, where did I get the headlight from the Milw Rd. S3 #262.   Well, I found out that a friend in Washington state had it for sale.  I'd known him about ten years, and didn't even know he had it.  I jumped in the car and drove 130 miles each way, in a dense fog, to get it.  He got it at an auction of stuff from an Andy's Diner in Tukwila, Wa. that went out of business.  They had it mounted on a wall, that was painted like a locomotive front. Before that, I don't know the history, other than in 1949, the 262 with three other sisters, 263, 267 and 269 were changed to oil burners, and sent to the Milwaukee Road's "GAP" between Avery, Idaho, and Othello, WA.  This was the area of no electrification.  These three S3 northerns worked with two S-1 northerns, and two F-6 hudsons from about 1949-1954.  I believe they were all scrapped in Tacoma, Wash. after that.

    None of the S3s sent out West had a red mars light, and all of them did have the bell offset.  They looked exactly like the recent pic. of 261.

   I also was lucky enough to get the headlight from a Milwaukee boxcab electric #E40.  It's huge !  Fifty-two inches across, and a 20inch lens.  Has four 200 watt bulbs in it, and weighs about 100 lbs.   Maybe it would make a good snow melter.

 

   Craig

It seems to me we are getting bogged down in a lot of pointless discussion about aesthetics. If we are going to buy or build authentic scale models (at least to the extent possible) the decisions have already been made for us by whoever built or modified the prototype. Most steam engines were modified in various ways throughout their working lives, so any model should attempt to be a "snapshot" of the prototype at a specific time. The 261 was originally built with one style of smokebox front, an offset bell, and no Mars light. Later the smokebox front was changed and a Mars light was added (both while the engine was in service). I don't know if these changes were made at the same time or not. One reputable drawing shows the S3 with a visor on the headlight; contemporary photos in my collection do not. I prefer to use the best available information to determine things like the bell placement rather than my own (very strong) style preferences. In the case of the Weaver model, it was a question of matching the bell placement to the road numbers in use at the time the bell was in a specific location. Joe Hayter agreed with me and made the change. Taste and preference had nothing to do with it; the only question was to improve the authenticity of a beautiful and expensive model.