Minton Cronkhite engine in motion

The correct spelling is "Cronkhite". The engines were origonally "Q" gauge. Everything was sold on e-bay in 2002. Enclosed is a trackplan of the "Q" gauge layout on which they ran.

Hello Tommy thank you for the correction on the spelling 

yes the MSI was Q Gauge from 1941-53 when it was changed to O gauge . 

Pre 1937 Minton Cronkhite built in O gauge 

cheers Carey 

What a gem! 

Great find Cary - thanks for  sharing

Growing up North of Chicago in the 1960s I always loved going to the Museum of Science and Industry and seeing the Large Layout in the Great Hall.  I was fascinated with the working signal system.  I never saw the Steam Locomotives.  I believe that the Layout was sponsored by the Santa Fe Railroad and they wanted the display to show modern railroad motive power.  I was sad when I heard that they were going to dismantle the layout.  ( It was getting a bit out dated )  The new HO scale layout is very well done.  I was disappointed to hear that the equipment was sold on e-bay  ( great for the people who were able to get one of these superb pieces into their collection )   I wish the Museum had kept them on display as part of the Museum's history.     

  http://midnightrailroader.blog.../p/blog-page_27.html

Steve

Me too.  But the history of O Scale is very low on the priorities of museum curators.  The Sacramento museum is my favorite, and they have some truly significant early O Scale, and no desire to annotate it.

They could have my Cab Forwards if they promised to annotate and display.  But I suspect they would be sold.  So I shall have my relatives sell, instead.

Carey,         I like your switch tower in the video.   Looks similar to mine .

Steve

Hello all 

Thank you for your kind words ...

MSI layout was pure Minton 1941-1952   Q gauge ......1953 Bob Smith of Central Locomotive Works helped regauge and remodel the layout to O gauge  and add the hump yard  ...6 switch towers ...remove the roundhouse ...add the diesel yards etc ....   1965 the added the piggy back  unloader  and freight transfer house , 1989 they did another remodel  adding the highway section and additional houses ....  each time new rolling stock replaced the old ...keeping up with the Santa Fe prototypes .

I'm very fortunate to have two buildings from the MSI layout ...the freight transfer house ( 1965)  and one of the switch towers (1953) ....you can see them in the photo .....good chance those are Minton Santa Fe reefers alongside the transfer house 

Bob   sorry the museum does not take a more serious interest in the historic pieces they have   ....looks like they have a huge building and a large audience ...based on the online videos .....

Sacramento ...I did not know they had a good collection of early O scale ....alas in storage ?...did they ever unpack and make available the  NMRA library ? 

The little switch tower in the video ....is a Model Structures  of Santa Cruz, Ca 1938 -1950 + -  building ...they made

some very fine models .... ( some of the best for the era ) .....  I collect period pieces for the layout 

Here are two bridges made by  Model Structures 

Cheers Carey 

f 

Carey Williams posted:

...

The San Diego Model Railroad Museum has a similar  Mikado in their collections .

wondering where you got this information.  when i was involved with the SDMRM, i was not aware of any steam locomotives in the collection.  the only MC pieces there were his SantaFe passenger diesels and lightweight cars.

 sorry the museum does not take a more serious interest in the historic pieces they have

i dont think the MSI sold all of the pieces the had. many of the pieces were not put into the auction. like the working steel mill.

there were no steam engines in the auction that i recall either.

bob2 posted:

Me too.  But the history of O Scale is very low on the priorities of museum curators.  The Sacramento museum is my favorite, and they have some truly significant early O Scale, and no desire to annotate it.

They could have my Cab Forwards if they promised to annotate and display.  But I suspect they would be sold.  So I shall have my relatives sell, instead.

Carey Williams posted:

Hello all 

Thank you for your kind words ...

Bob   sorry the museum does not take a more serious interest in the historic pieces they have   ....looks like they have a huge building and a large audience ...based on the online videos .....

Cheers Carey 

AlanRail posted:

 sorry the museum does not take a more serious interest in the historic pieces they have

i dont think the MSI sold all of the pieces the had. many of the pieces were not put into the auction. like the working steel mill.

there were no steam engines in the auction that i recall either.

I'm thinking he is referring to the Sacramento Museum, I doubt the MSI kept anything and hopefully it was all put up for sale to the highest bidder, a museum which holds a "tent sale" for some members would seem to be a little sketchy. Their curator even sold some of the real steam items. Truly unfortunate they didn't keep the big Santa Fe Northern and refurbish it for display rather than keep the NYC 999.

The Sacramento Museum has a very rare Lobaugh Cab Forward on display with no descriptive material at all.  It has a Lionel 700E likewise on display.  It would take fifteen minutes to type up a 3x5 card for each.  The rest of their model trains are somewhat commonplace, except for the large live steamers.

The San Diego Museum has, as I understand it, $35,000 worth of early O Scale imported brass, donated.  It is kept under lock and key, where it cannot be seen.  That may have changed in recent years; traffic and parking issues have made me not wild about visiting.  

Sacramento Museum O Scale

Hey Dan... Whose Amtrak FP45 is that? CLW perhapse?

bob2 posted:

Me too.  But the history of O Scale is very low on the priorities of museum curators.  The Sacramento museum is my favorite, and they have some truly significant early O Scale, and no desire to annotate it.

They could have my Cab Forwards if they promised to annotate and display.  But I suspect they would be sold.  So I shall have my relatives sell, instead.

Was going to donate some items to a museum and the curator made it pretty clear they would immediately sell them for cash. That made me worried they might be sold off low to someone with connections so we didn't donate either. 

Hello all ....

The photo of the Minton Mike along with a few other photos came from the curator  Alyssa Thompson, at the SDMRM .... below a Minton tender and the shovel nose diesel ...also in the museum .... ...total holdings 25 of Minton pieces ....unknown (yet )  what the entire Minton collection consists of ......Bob please  jump in the plane to avoid the traffic and land in the parking lot  to ask Alyssa .... to see ...and please photograph all the Minton pieces ....  or wait a few days and with luck I'll get more photos from the librarian ....

MSI did not own the layout till very late in the game ...  so with ownership of Santa Fe ...the old equipment was returned to the RR .....as I've been told ....MSI has several storage areas ... I've been in a few but no sign of Minton pieces ..  at one time back in the 60's  perhaps 70's there were some O scale pieces  in the room as you exit the coal mine in the basement ....they are long gone ( at least from view) .....

The steel mill that was on the MSI layout was originally used on the NYC 1939  World's Fair layout ...

Dan thank you for the photo of the extensive O scale display for the public to gaze on in Sacramento ...

Minton in the 60's ? let a local club "borrow" his O scale pieces to run at the club layout ......rumor..many of the pieces were never seen  again ...    ...at least  by Minton ....

4103 is a Santa Fe Bershire ...so perhaps a Berk lives in San Diego also ....  or tenders got switched ...note on tender the reverse lever on top ....same holes are found on my tender .... 

Cheers Carey 

 

Carey Williams posted:

The little switch tower in the video ....is a Model Structures  of Santa Cruz, Ca 1938 -1950 + -  building ...they made

I know the issue of donating collections has come up and it seems to boil down to one thing - There are many general interest museums but there doesn't seem to be any actual toy train museums that have two rail O scale, either vintage or modern.  

Would certainly be a nice thing to visit if there was. 

Or to donate collections to.

Hello Minton fans ....

Brian   I'll take some photos tonight and start a new posting for Model Structures tomorrow ...tune in 

A friend suggested reading the Minton article in Model Railroad June 1966...... bingo many of Minton's engines are pictured ...including #3837 .....built in 1934  as one of Minton first engines whilst living on the left coast. 

I'll share one page here as not to raise the lawyers eyes about copy-write material ....current ebay prices for a MR June 1966 will set you back about 1.00

With luck more articles will surface. 

Cheers Carey 

I don't know Alyssa.  It would take a lot for me to drive into Balboa Park.

There is some confusion at the Museum.  The overall deal is the SDMRRMuseum.  Individual clubs control the layouts.  In the past, O Scale donated to the Museum could not be used on the layout.  I suspect that the Museum holds the Cronkhite collection - except for the Pacific shown above, which has seen countless miles on the layout.

Carey Williams posted:

Hello all ....

The photo of the Minton Mike along with a few other photos came from the curator  Alyssa Thompson, at the SDMRM .... below a Minton tender and the shovel nose diesel ...also in the museum .... ...total holdings 25 of Minton pieces ....unknown (yet )  what the entire Minton collection consists of ......Bob please  jump in the plane to avoid the traffic and land in the parking lot  to ask Alyssa .... to see ...and please photograph all the Minton pieces ....  or wait a few days and with luck I'll get more photos from the librarian ....

MSI did not own the layout till very late in the game ...  so with ownership of Santa Fe ...the old equipment was returned to the RR .....as I've been told ....MSI has several storage areas ... I've been in a few but no sign of Minton pieces ..  at one time back in the 60's  perhaps 70's there were some O scale pieces  in the room as you exit the coal mine in the basement ....they are long gone ( at least from view) .....

The steel mill that was on the MSI layout was originally used on the NYC 1939  World's Fair layout ...

Dan thank you for the photo of the extensive O scale display for the public to gaze on in Sacramento ...

Minton in the 60's ? let a local club "borrow" his O scale pieces to run at the club layout ......rumor..many of the pieces were never seen  again ...    ...at least  by Minton ....

 

4103 is a Santa Fe Bershire ...so perhaps a Berk lives in San Diego also ....  or tenders got switched ...note on tender the reverse lever on top ....same holes are found on my tender .... 

 

Cheers Carey 

 

 

 

Carey Williams posted:

Hello Minton fans ....

Brian   I'll take some photos tonight and start a new posting for Model Structures tomorrow ...tune in 

A friend suggested reading the Minton article in Model Railroad June 1966...... bingo many of Minton's engines are pictured ...including #3837 .....built in 1934  as one of Minton first engines whilst living on the left coast. 

I'll share one page here as not to raise the lawyers eyes about copy-write material ....current ebay prices for a MR June 1966 will set you back about 1.00

With luck more articles will surface. 

Cheers Carey 

 

 

 

 

 Having grown up in Chicago near the Museum of Science & Industry I spent many an hour enjoying the big O gauge layout as in a kid in the 1970s. At that time the layout still had passenger trains, which I assume must have been F-Units pulling Santa Fe hi-level trains of that era (for some reason I seem to recall seeing single level/ hi-level transition cars). Another neat thing about the layout was that the walls along the outside were genuine stainless steel fluted passenger car siding. Here are some photos of the Cronkhite 1938 Santa Fe Chief equipment at San Diego Model Railroad Museum (taken in 2008). They're really beautiful models, and I was pleased to see them on display. Somewhere I also have a few photos of some of his steam locomotive models prior to their donation to the model railroad museum, having visited one of his relatives in the Los Angeles area back when they were looking to identify a home for the models.

Nice photos!  I guess I haven't been there in ten years, because I missed that display.

Thank you John for posting the photos of the Chief ....classic vintage ...looking forward to seeing the photos of the steamers one day ..thank you ..

Chief was shown in Lobaugh 1940 , ran at the 1939 Treasure Island Santa Fe display.

Cheers Carey