I'd like to buy a loco for use as a switcher. Remotely controlled couplers are a must. Which of the two brands MTH Railing or Lionchief plus should I go with ?
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Do you have the DCS system? If you did I would suggest the railking, more features. If not, I've heard good things about lionchief, although I have yet to try one out.
No I don't have that system. I plan to run conventional but wanted one loco with remotely controlled couplers.
Cool, then it comes down to who has what model you're looking for, steam or diesel, road name, etc.
MTH Steam engines usually have a front coupler while LIONEL doesn't unless it is the 0-4-0 that was put out in the last catalog. There diesels are nice but what do you want a nice sound system?
I'd like to have an RS-3 or an NW-2. I saw the videos that Trainworld has on each of these locos. The NW-2 has frosted windows. While not particularly a deal breaker, I would rather have clear windows as on the RS-3 with the engineer figure inside. However, the RS-3 they used for the demonstration video appears to have a mis-fitted body. There's quite a bit of gap between the chassis and body. This is not a critisism of Trainworld. It may be that the quality control at Lionel is lacking.
I just finished a fun hour of one track with a legacy rs-11, one with a railking steam switcher, and one track with Lionchief plus (all run conventional so to speak). All are good. For my bang for the buck, I would go with Lionchief plus. Only exception is if you love a particular loco, road name or get a good deal.
I run RailKing and LionChief Plus on my layout. Since you do not have MTH / DCS, below are the four Road Names, for LionChief Plus SW. This is a link to Train World. OGR Sponsor.
http://www.trainworld.com/manu...-chief-plus-engines/
Click on screenshot to enlarge.
Below is a video of the LionChief Plus RS-3 running on my layout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw2_EjBif4U
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Thanks guys. It's just a matter of who has the better deal and if I can get a Pennsy, B&O or maybe CSX.
Dan,
Trainroomgary has some good suggestions. I also like these sponsors who have good deals: Mario's, trainz with a 30% off deal going on plus Stockyard express. All sponsors are worth checking.
I searched Mario's trains and don't see a discount. Also do you have a link to Stockyard express ?
Dan, just sent an email on Mario, sidetrack on the sponsor list is also good. Google stockyard express trains and they will show up. I thought they were sponsors, maybe not?
After searching for 20 minutes I finally found my reply in another thread a few months back on a similar subject: https://ogrforum.com/t...71#49297155972617671
The thread goes on into probably more information than you need, but the reply there has pretty much what I have to say on the subject.
For the money, for a single engine, I think the LC+ is the way to go over RailKing, however, ultimately it will come down to which model you like better.
For what it's worth here is my LC+ NW2, which I think is a fantastic engine:
JGL
Any MTH PS-2 or 3 engine can fire couplers in conventional with bell and whistle buttons. You also can activate PSA sounds, turn off and on speed control, and lock it in a direction if you chose. This allows it to be integrated with your other trains operating in conventional.
What you need to determine is what other trains your operating at the same time. LC+ is meant to run on steady 18V on the track. It can run on lower voltage, but that limits speed and performance of smoke output. So you need to see how well it work at the voltage you will run your conventional trains at. G
Lion Chief Plus - YES, otherwise no. MTH Railking minimum Proto 2.
I see there is a Lionchief Plus universal remote. It has three buttons soon the front below the speed control. Obviously this remote is not the one that comes with any Lionchief locomotive. With it, up to three locomotives can be operated.
Correct, if you have more than one LC or LC+ locomotive, the multi-button remote is handy, and it's pretty cheap.
Even without having the DCS system, and being a big fan of TMCC/Legacy, I'd tell you to go with MTH RailKing. Why, because like GGG points out, they can be controlled from the transformer in conventional. LC+ will only work with the remote, and best at full voltage. They do not work well in a conventional environment, IMHO from personal experience. The only LC locomotives I have are the Thomas and Friends ones, and that's because that was all there was when I bought them. I'd of rather gotten conventional ones and added TMCC. I'm planning on avoiding all other LC/LC+ locomotives for my home layout.
I have to provide a small correction here. LC+ works with a transformer or the remote, they are switchable between modes. There is a huge difference between the LC and the LC+ locomotives, I'd avoid making judgments of the LC+ line based on your experience with the LC locomotives.
I have 4 Lion Chief Plus locos and by far my favorite is the LC+ NW-2 switcher. B&O livery. Great runner.
The Lionel LC+ RS3 has incorrect trucks. Looks like they are from an EMD
I picked up the LC+ B&O NW2 on a whim. What a great little engine. Just turn up the transformer to 17-18v, and away she goes. Have remote control with nothing else to buy. Has great smoke, good sounds, directional lighting, remote couplers, and cruise control. It is great for switching. Because of the cruise it will really creep along if you want. I will probably get a couple more LC+ locos. I think they have the features most people care about at a decent price. Did I mention that I really like this engine?
So much to say, so little time...
I started the day catching up on this post, and decided I better do some fact checking before I said anything else. 16 hours later I'm finally back to it. Ended up playing with the trains as much as testing things, but I still got some good information to pass on... and a mess of meter, stopwatch, rolling stock, and various items used to weigh things down for a nice heavy load. I've also got a correction I'll have to work at passing along for the many posts I've made now with what turns out to be wrong information. We'll get to that later.
GGG posted:Any MTH PS-2 or 3 engine can fire couplers in conventional with bell and whistle buttons. You also can activate PSA sounds, turn off and on speed control, and lock it in a direction if you chose. This allows it to be integrated with your other trains operating in conventional.
As GGG mentions, with MTH ProtoSound engines (1, 2, or 3)you can remotely fire the couplers under conventional operation. With LionChief Plus the couplers can only be fired from the LC Remote and only when switched to remote mode. LionChief Plus does let you activate the crew announcements (LC version of PSA) from conventional, but as far as I am aware there is no way to lock the direction. Speed control also appears to be always on with LC+. As far as integrating with other trains, LC+ will run very well along side conventional engines in it's remote mode. More on that below.
GGG posted:What you need to determine is what other trains your operating at the same time. LC+ is meant to run on steady 18V on the track. It can run on lower voltage, but that limits speed and performance of smoke output. So you need to see how well it work at the voltage you will run your conventional trains at. G
Here I have to, not so much disagree, as just provide more information than GGG's assessment. I think you would have just as much, if not more trouble, running a PS1/2/3 engine with other conventional engines. I doubt the couplers will perform very well below about 12VAC, unless they are designed very much differently than Lionel's. I also think that smoke output can be thrown out as a measurement of one engine or another, as I don't think any smoke unit will produce much, if any, smoke at track voltages below 12VAC, and most seem to like 14+. As for limiting speed, in remote mode, speed is unaffected pulling light loads, all the way down to 8VAC track power. With a moderate load it took 9VAC, to sustain top speed, and with a very heavy load (almost enough to spin traction tires and/or cause the drive truck to derail) it took just 11VAC to maintain top speed. It also follows for me, anyway, that if you had other conventional engines running on the same power block, where the track voltage needed would be a consideration, it would be quite annoying to have the other engine(s) tooting their whistles and changing their speeds as you use the switcher in a yard. My conclusion here is that the voltage you run your conventional trains at will have zero impact on if LC+ will work for you.
I tested the LC+ NW2 under a very heavy load, and found it to require 11VAC to give the full speed range in remote mode. Quite honestly your conventional engines can creep along and your LC+ would have full range of speed. When pulling only modest or light loads the NW2 would retain full range of speed control down to 8VAC.
This brings me to the correction of bad information I've been giving out. In posts past I've stated that lowering voltage below 14v on LC+ would remove the highest speed step. this is not true. All speeds will be retained over 8VAC track power, until the load on the motor exceeds what that voltage set can pull. so if you have a very heavy train, it may require 14v to get that last speed step. with only a few cars, however it might only need 9v. Even with this information I'd not be worried about handing the remote to a child or inexperienced person, as it seems that lion chief engines, running full speed, will navigate O36 curves without any problems.
I'll probably dump my data over on the LC/rc forum soon, if folks are interested in what I tested, but I've come to the conclusion that there is unlikely to be any conflict or problem when running an LC+ engine along side conventional, at any voltage. worst case is that the couplers don't fire under 12v, and smoke output is iffy under 14v... of course these are both true for my conventional engines, and I would assume also for PS1/2/3 engines.
JGL
JohnGaltLine posted:I also think that smoke output can be thrown out as a measurement of one engine or another, as I don't think any smoke unit will produce much, if any, smoke at track voltages below 12VAC, and most seem to like 14+.
John, I'm going to disagree with this assessment. The design of the PS2/PS3 system allows you to get plentiful smoke down to pretty low voltages in conventional mode. At a fairly low speed at 7-8 VAC on the rails, the PS/2 smoke is rolling out in impressive amounts. The key is the way the smoke unit is controlled, the smoke element and the smoke motor are both PWM controlled, and at low voltages they simply crank up the pulse width to maintain the desired performance.
Lionel does the same thing with Legacy and even some of the TMCC offerings with the voltage regulator module for low track voltages. The smoke resistors are in the 6-8 ohm range and they run at lower voltages to maintain the same heat level.
I was deep into the innards of a LC+ smoke unit, and, on my RS-3 at least, the smoke resistor appears to run on a regulated 7 volts, as determined by measurement. I didn't check what happens in motion, but track voltage at idle has virtually no effect until the regulator drops out at 8 volts or so. I think the smoke resistor was 16 ohms, which would be about 3 watts, but don't quote me on that.
I just received a RK PS3 SW9 in CP livery from Mario. Because I'm on his mailing list there was a recent discount offer for purchases over $200. After ordering it was on my doorstep in a few days for about $250 altogether. I'm not familiar with LionChief but I swear by the rugged and versatile RK scale switchers. They are IMO a best value in the hobby and no layout should be without one.
I'll revise my response, in light of the information from GRJ. If the RailKing option produces good quality smoke at minimum voltage, than that may be something to keep in mind, if for some reason the switcher will be running off the same power block as other engines that are at low power. The LC+ NW2 I tested smoked better in conventional mode than in remote mode, and I don't know why that is.
| Smoke Output | Voltage Conventional | Voltage Remote |
| None | < 10 | < 12 |
| Very Low | < 11 | < 13 |
| Low | < 12 | < 14 |
| Good | < 13 | < 16 |
| Full | > 13 | > 16 |
JGL
gunrunnerjohn posted:I have to provide a small correction here. LC+ works with a transformer or the remote, they are switchable between modes. There is a huge difference between the LC and the LC+ locomotives, I'd avoid making judgments of the LC+ line based on your experience with the LC locomotives.
LC+ still isn't compatible with TMCC/Legacy and doesn't have all the features of TMCC/Legacy. That's all they need to pass judgement.
What exactly does "not compatible" mean? It's as compatible with TMCC/Legacy as PS2/3 locomotives are with TMCC/Legacy. It'll run on the same tracks at the same time. While LC+ doesn't have all the Legacy features, it's got all the basics, cruise control, good sound, good smoke, electrocouplers, etc. Your idea of "compatible" may not match what other folks think of as "compatible". If it had all the features of Legacy, it would say "Legacy" on the box!
gunrunnerjohn posted:I have to provide a small correction here. LC+ works with a transformer or the remote, they are switchable between modes. There is a huge difference between the LC and the LC+ locomotives, I'd avoid making judgments of the LC+ line based on your experience with the LC locomotives.
I stand corrected, as I forgot about the conventional switch of the locomotive. But that is not enough for me to change my opinion, I'll still recommend RailKing.
I picked up Railing SW 1500 for $150.00. Bench tested only as per the seller. Seemed like a good price. I like the idea of being able to run conventional, although that's one of the reasons I started this thread, to get opinions. The smoke option on the Lionchief is nice, but from my garden railway experience, it can be a nuisance. I'll leave the smoking to my Dreyfus Hudson.
I just received my B&O switcher from Mario's Trains. First, let me give Mario a thumbs up. I had the chance to test run the locomotive today. I am more than pleasantly surprised with it's performance. Controls are easy to use. Slow speed running is amazing. I think I'll be very happy with this loco once I get my layout built and start to run it.
