My new (old) scale K-line Mikado

I assume these have the same smoke units as the Command models. If so the chuff switch is in the engine. Its common for them to go out of adjustment.

Pete

Your sound is working fine.  That locomotive has whistle, bell and puffing smoke but no chuff sounds.  The K3680-9630CC version has TMCC and full Railsounds, including chuffing.

NORTON,  The smoke unit provides smoke puffs and is synchronized to a driver.  I do not know if it is the same as a "Command" model.  There is a single switch under the cab which apparently turns off the smoke unit.  There is also a mounting hole for another switch which is not present.  The owners manual approaches useless.

Bob,  Now I am confused.  The model box says it has "Lionel Signal Sounds with Whistle and Bell".  The electronic unit in the tender has a sound board with two IC chips.  It is much more elaborate that the Williams "True Blast II" unit.  My K-line Instruction Sheet states for "Non-Command Engine with Signal Sounds ...Running sounds are also activated while the engine is in operation".    What are the "Running sounds"?

Jeff, the Command model also came with a puffer unit. It gives two puffs and chuffs. If yours has a switch it will be mounted somewhere close to the piston mechanism. Its a micro switch, not a slide switch mounted to the body. It will be a small green switch with a lever on it. The slide switch on the body simply cuts power to the smoke resistor but has no effect on sound.

Bob may be right though as I have never seen a conventional K-Line engine.

Pete

To elaborate on bobs post:

K LINE locos were offered 2 ways:

"Signal Sounds" is whistle and bell only.

OR

With "TMCC and Railsounds" having the full sound with chuffing sounds.

The "W" at the end of the product number designates "whistle".

The "S" at the end is for  TMCC/Railsounds ( no cruise control)

The "CC" at the end of the item number in Bob's post designates "TMCC/Railsounds" with Cruise Control

 Click on the item numbers below:

On a side note. Many Lionel locos are equipped with a Railsounds/Signal Sounds switch on the tender for folks who get tired of the constant chuffing.

It pays to do your research.

I see the "signal sounds" locos for sale all the time by "non train" people marketing them as full TMCC Railsounds locos because they don't know any better.

 The fact that the seller refunded your money solidifies this fact.  I'll hazard a guess they typically sell old china or doll clothes etc.

 I'd consider yourself lucky that you got a refund for an item that was working just as its supposed to.

Thanks for all of your comments.  RICKO your words are ground truth.  DO YOUR RESEARCH!

"CC" does not necesarilly mean cruise control.  I have a NYC Mikado with TMCC &Railsounds, K3670-1838CC, which does not have cruise control.  http://www.legacykline.com/app...oem_sku=K3670-1838CC  An upgrade kit was available from K-Line for cruise.  I don't think they offered cruise until 2004 catalog items.

On EBAY "untested" means - It does not work.

"tested" means - It worked at one time, maybe.

"sealed box" means - I am afraid to look inside.

Make sure the photos are the same item you are buying not a "file" photo.

totrainyard posted:

On EBAY "untested" means - It does not work.

"tested" means - It worked at one time, maybe.

"sealed box" means - I am afraid to look inside.

Make sure the photos are the same item you are buying not a "file" photo.

From what I have read here, the seller didn't know what he was selling and the buyer didn't know what he ws buying. To tell the truth I didn't know Signal Sounds did not include chuff. I assumed it was the same as Train Sounds which does include chuff. 

Consider taking the refund and get an ERR Railsounds board. Then you will have a better whistle, bell,  and chuff plus a better speaker.

Pete

with Lionel signal sounds were upgradable to TMCC ( separate chip); but only had bell and whistle.  You could also add sound and electronic couplers.  I assume Kline was same,  I had a GP7 which I upgraded.

Lionel made an upgrade kit for both diesel and steam.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/72-2963-250.pdf

It is 2 boards that can still be had individually. Very easy plug & play upgrade - remove signal sounds board, install new railsounds and power board on existing board.

"CC" designates "command control" (TMCC), not "cruise control", on these engines. 

The "S" models are all TMCC as well.

I could very well be mistaken. Some where along the way I thought it was mentioned that the highly sought after Hudson was available from the factory with "cruise control". 

These "CC"models are very scarce and most folks end up adding the cruise to the S models.

Jim Harrison,  You tweaked my interests.  Are you saying I can replace the boards in my K-line tender and have a chugging loco?   I will only be operating conventionally. 

We have the same engine at the club, it has the same issue.  The connections for the tether inside the engine cone loose and need resoldered.

RickO posted:

The "S" models are all TMCC as well.

I could very well be mistaken. Some where along the way I thought it was mentioned that the highly sought after Hudson was available from the factory with "cruise control". 

These "CC"models are very scarce and most folks end up adding the cruise to the S models.

Some CC models had cruise, many didn't. I know the Berks and Shays had factory cruise. I upgraded my TMCC Mikado with CC suffix to K-Line Cruise.

Jeff, before ordering the Lionel RS upgrade make sure the existing boards are Lionel and not K-line. Compare prices between the Lionel Kit to ERR. The Lionel kit is larger and has RS4. ERR is much more compact and has better sound, at least RS5 or better.

Pete

Not sure.  I don't know if conventional  K-Line's have the Railsounds motherboard in the tender to receive the power and Railsounds boards, or if there is a chuff switch to trigger the chuffing...

Some  of the Lionel products of that vintage were advertised as upgradable.

You would need to open it up and have a look.

-Jim

Some folks say the K-Line cruise control is smooth, but all of mine were rough as a cob when running. The proper Cruise board from Electric railroad makes them run beautifully.

OK, so I would like to upgrade the whistle and bell to whistle, bell and chug.  I have opened the tender up and there is a single removable board with LY1000 ink stamped on the end with two chips marked Lionel SS45-1 and Lionel SSS01.  The motherboard it is installed on seems to provide power.  There is no battery or connection for one present.  Is there a board available which I could plug-in that would provide a PS-1 type sound (not driver synchronized).  I suppose I could remove the tender shell again and take photos if needed. 

Sounds like a Lionel signal sounds board. 

Post pictures please.

That is exactly what it is.  I will take photos tomorrow. 

Here is a photo of the electronics in the Mikado tender.  The box says this has "Lionel Station Sounds with whistle and bell".  Are there any aftermarket plug-in boards which will give the whistle, bell and chug?

It appears to have a standard motherboard for audio and audio power boards. Audio boards are 45 bucks and audio power boards are 40 bucks plus shipping.

For about same amount you can get an ERR Railsounds board with a better speaker and chuff switch. The ERR board is a much smaller footprint.

Pete

Adding the Lionel Railsounds and power boards are a plug and play option - assuming there is a chuff switch in the locomotive...

The ERR Railsounds would involve some wiring, though not complicated.  (would also require  a chuff switch.)

I have no idea whether or not this loco has a chuff switch.  I assume the loco would have to be disassembled to ascertain the presence of a chuff switch?

Not my photo -grabbed it from another post.

The chuff switch might  be visible without taking it apart if you look between the boiler and frame.

Here it is a little brighter, you can clearly see the chuff switch right under the motor flywheel, it's the white switch.

Are any of the chuff switch pics from a Conventional engine? I pointed in the second post above that the conventional engines may or may not have that switch. 

If the switch exists then the next question is does it work? Even if it does work it will only give two chuffs per rev. Early on it was asked whether Stations Sounds have chuff sounds. Many said no. Not having a conventional version of this engine I deferred to those who claim they did.

I would suggest before investing in new sound boards that you verify if the switch works using an ohmmeter across the switch wires and rotating the flywheel and see if the resistance changes once or twice per wheel revolution.

Pete

Sadly the side frames prevent the verification of a chuff switch?  I suppose the boiler needs to be removed.  Are there any wiring diagrams for these locomotives?

You can have the body off in about that same time as it took to make that post. Two screws under the cab, look for the ones with the largest phillips heads. Then either, one above the engine truck, or two inside each cylinder with the same size heads as the under cab screws.

Well I suppose this case is closing.  I removed the loco superstructure today and found that there is NO chuff switch.  Soooo, if no one makes a plug-in  board that provides rail sounds without a chuff switch (similar to an MTH PS1) I am going to content myself with only whistle and bell.   I will need to look for a K-line K3680-9826S as I really like this locomotive.

Jeff, the only systems that don't need a chuff switch of some sort are Command Control. The electric RR Railsounds kit includes a chuff switch as well as a new speaker and baffle. The chuff switch gets mounted on the tender truck. Its not a big deal. You can set it for two or four chuffs per rev by using one or two magnets.

If at a later date you want to upgrade to Command you can still use this board and get even more sounds.

Pete

Don't give up just yet...

Can you share a picture of the board in the engine that the motor is connected to?

It may be a Lionel board, to which you can plug in one of Lionel's cherry switches.

If not, as Pete stated, the EER Railsounds Commander is an option which is a relatively easy install.

http://www.electricrr.com/Manu...lSoundsCmdr-Inst.pdf

To Jim Harrington,  I could be wrong but I don't remember seeing a circuit board in the locomotive?  The circuit board would be behind the electric motor?  There was not much room inside the boiler shell.   Jeff

There is likely one behind the motor...

In the image above you can make out part of it to the left of the motor.  At a minimum, there are connectors/plugs for the lighting in the engine, likely on a circuit board.

Well I am back.  Does anyone have an idea how difficult and who could install PS-2 into this loco?  General cost level?   I am constrained to O31 so if I want any scale locos larger than the K-4S it is either this or a Weaver L-1.