my opinion on CSX and questions

I don't see your point. Are they a successful business? Do they provide a good return on an investment? Do they satisfy their customers?

Wow. 

http://trn.trains.com/railroad...s/csx-transportation

CSX roster lots of EMD's

paigetrain posted:

here is what i think of CSX 

i hear alot from people that CSX hates steam trains 

they hate EMD 

Paigetrain, they don't hate anything or anyone.  "They" -- that is, the executive-level management of CSX -- have concluded that they do not desire to bear the risk and the disruption of having steam excursions on their track.  It costs a railroad a lot -- more than it can recover in charges to the excursion group -- to allow steam engines to run on its tracks.  Some executive-level managements are willing to allow it for the goodwill it may produce, and others are not.  The public image of a railroad that allows steam is good community relations, but it costs money.  This is the age-old difference between different groups of people and their thinking.  When I was young, Southern Pacific and Missouri Pacific were not friendly to railfans, but Union Pacific and Santa Fe were very friendly.  It is just the way things are and have always been.  Now, I will agree that the personal bias of each member of management does affect the corporate policy, but it's all business, not love or hatred.

It;s the same when they buy locomotives.  Both GE and EMD have good products.  If you go out to buy a pickup truck, you will have to decide between, say, Ford and Chevrolet.  Each is a little better than the others in certain categories, and you will weigh the differences.  Then, you will decide what features are most important to you, go to a couple of competing dealers and try to make a deal.  There will be a difference in the price you pay, and the incentives they will give you and you will give your business to the dealer who gives you the most in return.  It's like that when a railroad buys locomotives.  GE learned from EMD that reliability is the number one consideration, and customer service is a close second.  They listened harder to what the railroads liked and did not like about GE locomotives, and became as good as EMD.  So, then it comes down to making the deal about how much the engine costs to buy, its fuel economy (Fuel is a very big cost to a railroad), and what they will do for the railroad after the locomotive is delivered.  GE can often sell its locomotives at a lower price than EMD, and sometimes that's the most important thing to a railroad.  Also, they have a "field service" group of mechanical and electrical engineers who do a good job of listening to the railroad about what it likes and does not like, and help the railroad find the best ways to take care of its locomotives.  EMD used to have the best field service, but GE copied them and also became excellent in that area.  The railroad wants the most reliable, most fuel-efficient locomotives for the cheapest price, and both EMD and GE compete to give them that.  Apparently, GE has offered better deals overall to CSX much of the time, and that accounts for the number of GE's you see there.  Also, locomotive builders like to sell a contract for a hundred or more locomotives to be delivered over several months, instead of ASAP.  CSX can give the locomotive builders time to deliver instead of forcing them to work extra shifts or overtime to get an order completed ASAP.  This is old-fashioned bargaining:  I'll give you this if you'll give me that.  And, remember . . . some people like Chevrolets better than Fords, and others prefer Ford over Chevrolet.  Some people own both a Ford and a Chevrolet.

Don't believe everything you hear from other train enthusiasts, unless they themselves are railroad executives.  It's business, not hatred.  Every railroad sees things slightly differently from others, and, really all they are doing is making decisions that they believe will help them make more money than they spend.  Even railroad executives who have unpleasant personalities are only trying to make a profit for their railroad.  They might get cranky, but, after they calm down, they do what they think is in the best interest of their railroad's ability to make profit.

I think CSX is beginning to adjust itself faster to the changing situation in the East than its equine neighbor!

And I think the drop in railroad loadings is a bird in the mine warning.  The whole economy is about to drop like a rock.  But I think industry is trying to make a silk purse out of a big because of the vote for Presidential Electors!

Hot Water posted:

I don't see your point. Are they a successful business? Do they provide a good return on an investment? Do they satisfy their customers?

read Paigetrain's profile they are a young person just trying to understand.

imo it is up to us to educate them and most of your answer did just that.

Hot Water posted: Are they a successful business? Do they provide a good return on an investment? Do they satisfy their customers?

I think HW is on track here, not just for railroads, but businesses in general.  I am concerned businesses are seemingly "hooking" themselves with non-profits and NGO's in their ads.  With the amount of this going on, I wonder if businesses cannot answer even ONE of the above questions with a "yes", and are using these relationships as a stockholder as well as tax cover.   Stockholders maybe need to take a close look at this!  Plus, are non-profits today REALLY non-profits?

But I think the last question should be first.  No customers, no chance of a profit!

All, in all, good basic Eco 101 answer!

I question any real need for "public relations."

Is it nice when it happens? Sure is.

Is it really necessary? I don't think so, and neither does the executive arm of CSX.

If people could step outside of being a foaming-at-the-mouth railfan for a few minutes and look at it pragmatically, they would see that other than making a few railfans happy, and briefly capturing the attention and imagination of a few passively interested folks, these "public relations" events do nothing for the railroad except cost money.

Are there any potential customers among these railfans and passively interested folks? Not likely. Maybe if we all took up a collection we could rent a boxcar and have it moved from Buffalo to Rochester. If there's a customer out there who could benefit from rail service, they will seek out the railroad company; giving him a ride behind Thomas the Tank Engine isn't going to sell him on the railroad's ability to move goods economically and efficiently.

Is there any money to be made? As has been stated in this thread multiple times already, no. It is a cost center for these railroads. There is no positive cashflow generated, and in today's modern corporate environment, if it ain't makin' money, it's costin' money and has to go.

Since 2004 CSX has only purchased GE locomotives.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think CSX is beginning to adjust itself faster to the changing situation in the East than its equine neighbor!

Their "...equine neighbor..." beat the street in the first quarter by something like 30%. Nothing wrong with that!

PAUL ROMANO posted:

Since 2004 CSX has only purchased GE locomotives.

GE has been eating EMD's lunch for years. No surprise there.

GE is like MTH copying Lionel -GE copies EMD and sells cheaper. They  rebuild EMDs, scrap GEs.

OGR Webmaster posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think CSX is beginning to adjust itself faster to the changing situation in the East than its equine neighbor!

Their "...equine neighbor..." beat the street in the first quarter by something like 30%. Nothing wrong with that!

Now, is that 30% based on rail ops, or from "feelings" about "Hunter's Huntings"?  (I do know he has stopped his quest!)

A lot about the effects on stock prices today make no sense in the light in what I was taught 40 years ago.  "Profit" or "Return on Investment", ok.  "Value to the Stockholder" could mean anything!

I said that NS "...beat the street..." in my post. That means they beat Wall Street estimates and predictions by about 30%. They've done a great job changing their operations to accommodate the business downturn.

Matt Kirsch posted:

other than making a few railfans happy, and briefly capturing the attention and imagination of a few passively interested folks, these "public relations" events do nothing for the railroad except cost money. Are there any potential customers among these railfans and passively interested folks? Not likely.

All true, but not, I think, the whole picture. Railroads rely on the public good will, because the public elects the politicians, and the politicians decide the rules of engagement for the railroads vis-a-vis the other transportation companies.

A trivial example: look how Amtrak gets kicked around when people on Capitol Hill wants to look tough at budget time. If the public loved Amtrak, would that play? No, it wouldn't.

Public perception also has something to do, I am sure, with how wrecks, spills, and other accidents get reported. The media needs to make money, too. If news outlets feel like people love the railroad, they might be sympathetic, or at least not hostile, in their reporting. But if the railroad is just another big, soulless corporation, then why not open fire? Everyone likes an opportunity to bash a big, soulless corporation!

Every so often you hear rumblings that railroads should be required to build bypasses around all urban areas, because of the possibility of spilling hazardous chemicals, or worse, a terrorist attack on a train. (Being big, soulless corporations, the railroads will have plenty of money to pay for all that, of course.) You can bet that the people pushing hard at this idea are not the ones who bring their kids to "Railroad Days."

Even if it costs money, there is something to be said for making an effort to control your narrative.

Matt Kirsch posted:

I question any real need for "public relations."

Railroads can use all the friends they can get, since they have so few of them.  Every time suburbia encroaches on the railroad and its crossing whistles in the night, every time a train stops while blocking a road crossing, every time the evening news reports a hazmat or passenger train derailment, the number of friends gets smaller.

Thus, the steam friendliness of some railroads.  Others, like CSX, won't deal with steam, but they all do some type of public relations or community relations activity to interact with the public in a positive setting and -- hopefully -- show their neighbors how the railroad benefits the community and the nation.

One does not need a steam engine to tell people that a train of X containers takes X big rig trucks off our roads, on private, tax paying ROW.  

That message would ring with both the tree huggers AND the Tea Party in ONE ad.

Thing is, nobody remembers the ride behind Thomas the Tank Engine when that horn goes off in their backyard in the middle of the night. Nobody remembers NKP 765  when 100 tanker cars of shale crude pile up and burst open in the middle of downtown Anytown USA. Nobody is going to forgive the railroad when a train's parked on a crossing and Soccer Mom Sally has to get little princess to her game so she can collect her participation trophy.

"Oh, it's okay. They gave me a ride on a STEAM TRAIN! CHUGGA CHUGGA! WOO WOO!" No.

To avoid this going political, I will stop there.

Matt Kirsch posted:

Thing is, nobody remembers the ride behind Thomas the Tank Engine when that horn goes off in their backyard in the middle of the night. Nobody remembers NKP 765  when 100 tanker cars of shale crude pile up and burst open in the middle of downtown Anytown USA. Nobody is going to forgive the railroad when a train's parked on a crossing and Soccer Mom Sally has to get little princess to her game so she can collect her participation trophy.

"Oh, it's okay. They gave me a ride on a STEAM TRAIN! CHUGGA CHUGGA! WOO WOO!" No.

To avoid this going political, I will stop there.

The whistle in the middle of the night and the getting to the game are issues which were brought upon themselves.  (Why did buy the home where it is: soccer is not school, work or a Doc's apointment!)

However, the oil train situation is railroad related.  But even here, there are 18 wheelers  doing stuff here in Houston every day........

People complain about the trains-the noise, the inconvenience, the hazards and then they complain about the big trucks on the highways. Give them a horse and wagon and tell them to go in to town once a month and shop. Personally, I am tired to death of the whiners and complainers.

jim pastorius posted:

People complain about the trains-the noise, the inconvenience, the hazards and then they complain about the big trucks on the highways. Give them a horse and wagon and tell them to go in to town once a month and shop. Personally, I am tired to death of the whiners and complainers.

True.  And the reason for the trucks and the trains is to support their lifestyle!

"We have met the enemy, and he is us!"

CSX did allow steam through 1994, with NKP 765 through 1993 on the New River train and Milw 261 in 1994 due to 765 down for overhaul. After that, Amtrak Genesis units powered the New River train 1995 and up. Predecessor Chessie System had two steam programs between 1977-1978 and 1980-1981 with Reading 2101 and C&O 614. Even the UP Challenger ran on CSX in the early 90's lettered for Clinchfield. But today's CSX wants nothing to do with steam. The 614 is sitting cold in Virginia because there's no point in restoring it if CSX won't let it run on their tracks. CSX probably wants no steam excursions because of the risks and cost. Wick Moorman formerly CEO of NS was a big steam fan and pushed for a new steam program in partnership with museums several years ago. But now that he's retired, NS made the decision to end 21st Century Steam last December. 611 ran on NS this year because VMT paid for their own insurance coverage. UP will probably continue to have a steam program once 844 is back and the Big Boy is restored. BNSF allows some steam trips in partnership with Amtrak. All the C railroads want nothing to do with steam right now. CSX, CN, CP. Conrail became hostile toward steam excursions in the 90's. Steam operates on class 1's at the whim of CEO's and other higher ups. It boils down to the CEO's and other decision maker's attitudes toward steam and their views towards the risks or rewards of hosting steam excursions.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

One does not need a steam engine to tell people that a train of X containers takes X big rig trucks off our roads, on private, tax paying ROW.  

That message would ring with both the tree huggers AND the Tea Party in ONE ad.

That is a solid and rational argument, and one that CSX has made, if memory serves. A steam program, on the other hand, is an emotional - dare I say irrational - argument. Likewise, clever advertising, heritage paint schemes, and excursion trains do not present rational reasons for favoring railroads.

But, then, people in general act irrationally much of the time, do they not? Presenting the public with one or more of these irrational reasons in favor of railroads might actually be a pretty rational thing to do.

All I know is my CSX stock is the lowest valued out of all the class one stocks that I own. 

 Plus, are non-profits today REALLY non-profits?

There are plenty of non-profits that pay their employees good salaries, and their upper level management outrageous salaries.

Here is an excerpt from a statement made by the Red Cross in 2012:

The president and CEO of the American Red Cross is Gail McGovern, and her base salary has remained $500,000—without any pay increase—since she joined the American Red Cross in 2008. This is considered well within the range for executives of large non-profits like the Red Cross, a $3.3 billion organization.

I think we tend to believe that those working for non-profits don't get paid, or are paid very little. It isn't so.

On a more local level, while in college, one of the jobs my younger brother had was fund raising for some non-profit group, I won't guess at the name. He was paid to go door to door to solicit funds.

jim pastorius posted:

GE is like MTH copying Lionel -GE copies EMD and sells cheaper. They  rebuild EMDs, scrap GEs.

Not to get into a contest here but I think it is the other way around. EMD is building a four cycle engine to comply with tier 4 emissions. Who is copying who? Dash 8 locomotives are still very much alive after 25+ years of reliable service. NS and BNSF have rebuild programs to extend service life, not to mention DC to AC conversions.  

That railroad lost me when they took the cat out of the paint scheme, plus CSX sounds like a nerve gas agent, not a railroad (and obviously, this was said tongue in cheek, well, everything but taking the cat off the paint scheme.

Chessie Seaboard Multiplied(X).  That is what I have been told what CSX really means.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Chessie Seaboard Multiplied(X).  That is what I have been told what CSX really means.

No. It really means Chicken **** Express!

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Chessie Seaboard Multiplied(X).  That is what I have been told what CSX really means.

No. It really means Chicken **** Express!

LOL 

I have to remember that.

As e-mailed to me today to acknowledge CSX's derailment in the Howard St. Tunnel. At least it didn't burn this time...

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Chessie Seaboard Multiplied(X).  That is what I have been told what CSX really means.

from a former sterling,ohio tower op, and some m.o.w. people, it was suppose to represent Chessie Systems eXpress.....

CSX might not be steam friendly, but it's the only RR in my area. It's not all that bad, a number of the employees are friendly, and some of them even are model railroaders. They have no clue what CSX means either though, so I cannot offer any suggestions other than mebbe Cymbol Scare eXpress (why else would we hear them at 3 in the morning than to scare us awake with that loud %€,|}>£?^?) 

So what is their official policy right now? They won't accept a steam locomotive for any reason unless it's being transported on a flat car like the C&O Mallet that was transported to WMSR? How did 614 get moved over CSX to its display site in Clifton Forge, VA? I heard NS moved it from Roanoke to Staunton, then a Buckingham Branch crew moved it to Clifton Forge, telling CSX "we have a special movement" but wouldn't tell CSX what it was. How did they get away with it? Thought all special moves have to be approved by Jacksonville and equipment being transported has to be inspected by a CSX crew? BB leases track from CSX in Virginia. Of course, the 614 was moved by diesels dead in tow. What about their special excursion policy? They allow the New River train, which has been pulled by Amtrak Genesis units since 1995. As well as other excursions with the Collis P. Huntington society. New River was pulled by 765 through 1993, and Milw 261 in 1994. Does CSX allow Amtrak charters or special Amtrak trips that are not a regularly scheduled Amtrak train? How about AAPRCO trips? Are those allowed over CSX? I always wanted to ride the former B&O from Philly to Baltimore and Washington, will I ever get that chance? It is a CSX freight line with no Amtrak or other service whatsoever. Nobody can ride it except CSX employees. There's a lot of companies that use three letters as their name. IBM, RCN, FBI, IRS, etc. RCN is a cable TV provider and it stands for Residential Communications Network. BNSF is four letters and they no longer spell out their full name, it's just BNSF now. I think since Berkshire Hathaway bought it. The lettering of BNSF also changed to an italic bold non serif lettering previously a bold serif lettering. BTW, BNSF is steam friendly and allows occasional public trips with certified locomotives operating under the Amtrak umbrella.

What?

mlavender480 posted:

What?

More diarrhea of the keyboard from "ROBERT K".   Please remember that very famous, old saying: "It is better to be thought an idiot, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.".

Who cares ??

We're reaching levels of sheer baffling nonsense that it's close to politics. 

Do they teach the use of paragraphs in Elementary English any more?