N&W CLASS A 1218

I heard the 19th from Mr. Muffin? I’ve got the Excursion version and Pilot version coming. 😎

Lionel Store no longer lists a ship date which means they should be at Lionel.  I suspect they'll be showing up at dealers shortly.

As stated above MR. MUFFINS on the 19th.  I have the MUFFIN SPECIAL PRR coming.  

The manual is up.  Not sure if it has been posted yet.

Lionel VL Class A Manual

Interesting on page 12 it describes how to assign a number from 1-99.  But wait! On page 16 it says refer to the Base 3 manual for 4 digit assignments. 👍🏻

Manual???  Come on mannn...No one reads the manual!

That’s a game changer! To be able to use the engine # directly.

They’re here!

https://youtu.be/o3Utk2y1xZE

Thanks for the youtube link.  That's the first customer video of the engine.  It looks good.  I wonder how he got the engine so early.

Nice video but switch that whistle to the Hooter! 👊🏻

RickO - I do when I’m waiting on the engine to arrive!!! 😎

@N'awlins posted:

They’re here!

https://youtu.be/o3Utk2y1xZE

Good grief!!!!  Where did they come up with that whistle?????

@Hot Water posted:

Good grief!!!!  Where did they come up with that whistle?????

I know. Very nonspecific for the A. I get the idea of changing the bell/whistle, but on some models, I can’t help but think the storage usage could be used for other features.

I didn't see which side the whistle was on because of the safety popoff valves blowing. Where would the whistle be located?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I didn't see which side the whistle was on because of the safety popoff valves blowing. Where would the whistle be located?

I noticed that the whistle "smoke" appears to be coming from something adjacent to the safety valves. Must admit that I don't remember exactly where the whistle is located on prototype Class A locomotives, but I thought it should be closer towards the cab, i.e. NOT adjacent to the safety valves.

@Hot Water posted:

I noticed that the whistle "smoke" appears to be coming from something adjacent to the safety valves. Must admit that I don't remember exactly where the whistle is located on prototype Class A locomotives, but I thought it should be closer towards the cab, i.e. NOT adjacent to the safety valves.

I don't remember where it was on the 3D printed shell from the York photos I took. I'll probably have to gander a look at my photos when I get home. I'm sure BigJim or someone else may be able to get an answer on this. Just curious where it is.

I do know BigJim had messaged Ryan about the turrets(if I got that term right) were not supposed to be covered on most models, and only for a short period of time was it worn on 1218 I think he said if I got all that correct from my memory.

OK, problem solved. I just looked at my Class A book, by Ed King, and the whistle is on the Fireman's side of the steam dome, right behind the safety valves. Thus, the whistle is pretty much, "adjacent to the safety valves", being about a foot behind them. Lionel got it rights far as the location, but the sound is certainly NOT an N&W Hooter!

@Hot Water posted:

OK, problem solved. I just looked at my Class A book, by Ed King, and the whistle is on the Fireman's side of the steam dome, right behind the safety valves. Thus, the whistle is pretty much, "adjacent to the safety valves", being about a foot behind them. Lionel got it rights far as the location, but the sound is certainly NOT an N&W Hooter!

Sorry, jumped the gun!  Didn't catch your reply before I posted mine.

Yeah, when I get mine I am definitely changing to the right whistle. I still can't believe the PRR Texas debacle on them having the incorrect whistle. Right after is when they made every engine have the chance to have all sorts of whistles. I think we had a lengthy discussion on that thing and how they somehow said it was correct(don't know what planet that was).

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Sorry, jumped the gun!  Didn't catch your reply before I posted mine.

Hey!…..the photo you posted is copyrighted material, …..I have the same book, and it’s heavily copyright protected,……delete your photo, and post a link or similar for people to view it!……if the mods catch it, you may get banned for good!!……just trying to save your hind end….

Pat

@Hot Water posted:

Good grief!!!!  Where did they come up with that whistle?????

Umm...NKP 765??? Lol! It's possible the user selected it because they liked it.

One would "hope" the hooter would be the default whistle.

@Hot Water posted:

Good grief!!!!  Where did they come up with that whistle?????

@N'awlins posted:

I know. Very nonspecific for the A. I get the idea of changing the bell/whistle, but on some models, I can’t help but think the storage usage could be used for other features.

Why not just use the correct whistle sound?

@harmonyards posted:

Hey!…..the photo you posted is copyrighted material, …..I have the same book, and it’s heavily copyright protected,……delete your photo, and post a link or similar for people to view it!……if the mods catch it, you may get banned for good!!……just trying to save your hind end….

Pat

Wow, I did.  Thanks for the heads up.  That image was posted to an open source online, so I don't know how that happened.

Demos with Dave Episode 21, around the 21 minute mark shows the whistles (assuming this is the same lineup as the production model).  The first two selections are hooters.

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Wow, I did.  Thanks for the heads up.  That image was posted to an open source online, so I don't know how that happened.

They might not have permission either, but on here, it’s a major no-no,……if it even smells like it might be copyrighted, don’t copy it and post it, ….best thing to do is provide a link as to where others may see it,…….I’m not a forum cop, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night ,……😁

Pat

Nice looking locomotive minus the laser beams class lights.

@TRAINMANTIM posted:

Nice looking locomotive minus the laser beams class lights.

Agree,…..I just took on a 2-8-0 with the same class lights, …….I think you could possibly split atoms with them,…..geeeeezzzz they’re bright!….got to numb them down a couple thousand candle powers…..😳

Pat

Just got my invoice from MR. MUFFINS, it’s on its way.

Please post pictures/video when you get it!  I think the PRR custom run does not have road specific dialog like the N&W versions.

P.S. If you make a video, please use a tripod or try to minimize the movement of the camera.  Shaky and quick panning of the video can cause headache for the viewers.

Highly interested in one of these just not sure which one ? I was at Charles Ro Wednesday and they didn’t have them yet but said they would be arriving any day. Curious how that glossy black on the 1218 looks.

How do you change the whistle on the newer locomotives?  I haven't seen that in the instruction books.

Mine is on the way as well, excited to get it!

First glimpse of the 1238 was nice, those roller bearing rods look good!

That being said, wrong whistle choice, dude freakin’ blew it.

@Burl posted:

How do you change the whistle on the newer locomotives?  I haven't seen that in the instruction books.

Mine is on the way as well, excited to get it!

BURL,

  To change the whistle you press Aux1 then the whistle lever.  There are five different whistles.  Have fun with it.  Also there are five different bell tones too.

How do you "set" it so that it holds the new whistle choice?  Just release AUX1?

Mine is on its way from legacy station will have it Sunday from fedex

@Burl posted:

How do you "set" it so that it holds the new whistle choice?  Just release AUX1?

Just which ever one you stay at without hitting Aux1 it will hold there until you hit Aux1 again then the whistle.

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Demos with Dave Episode 21, around the 21 minute mark shows the whistles (assuming this is the same lineup as the production model).  The first two selections are hooters.

This is correct - I think RickO's speculation that the user chose it because they liked it is correct. The whistles sounded absolutely incredible in the speakers they have loaded on it in the Demo's video.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

That being said, wrong whistle choice, dude freakin’ blew it.

I see what you did there

Got notice from Mr Muffins that it’s in and ready to ship.  Should receive it Wed or Thurs next week.  👍🏼

We've got video courtesy of a Youtuber of 1218 in gloss!  (Correct whistle choice, too)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjMKYvSZl50&t=66s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQU8qgLE7M8

I really wish Lionel would give you the ability to control the brightness of every lamp to your liking. It would also be nice to have the ability to disable that tired and overused rail groaning/creaking effect. They use the same exact sounds in every engine. Engine looks amazing, can’t wait to get mine! I have a CG on the bench almost ready for service.

That hooter whistle is also an older file from the Lionmaster A. Sure would have been nice to get some updated sound files on a “Vision Line” engine. I’m sorry,  I’m just not seeing the “Vision” in this engine. What Vision features are on this engine that aren’t on engines with an Orange box? Oh, I guess the Black box and badging, plus a 4 digit number capabilities must be the “Vision”.

To be fair, based on Lionel’s history with sound, I’d personally tend to prefer they take an “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” approach to sounds rather than ditching something that works perfectly well for new sounds that may be decent and may be terrible.

I also think I heard they have a second hooter whistle option in the lineup.

The five different whistles are demoed around the 20:56 mark.

I’m good if one of the whistles is a copy of the Lionmaster Class A. That’s one of my favorites and running it with 3 speakers would be awesome.

Think I’ll just listen to one of the ones you guys get 🧐

One thing I’ve noticed is how shiny they are.  Are all the different Versions the same?   Definitely need a weathering job to tone that shine down.  Kind of like this

Gary - that's a beautiful job he did for you there!

The A clsss is my favorite articulated and this one is spectacular

@superwarp1 posted:

One thing I’ve noticed is how shiny they are.  Are all the different Versions the same?   

I believe that's the "excursion version" with the gloss paint. The video link that N'awlins posted on the first page shows a loco with a more satin finish.

@RickO posted:

I believe that's the "excursion version" with the gloss paint. The video link that N'awlins posted on the first page shows a loco with a more satin finish.

Certainly sounds logical, i.e. the 1218 "excursion version". Having seen and photographed the real 1218 over many, MANY years during her excursion career, and can attest to the fact that she was very glossy!

@RickO posted:

I believe that's the "excursion version" with the gloss paint. The video link that N'awlins posted on the first page shows a loco with a more satin finish.

That makes sense

@Hot Water posted:

Certainly sounds logical, i.e. the 1218 "excursion version". Having seen and photographed the real 1218 over many, MANY years during her excursion career, and can attest to the fact that she was very glossy!

I seen her fresh off her “ restoration “ ……she was indeed glossy, and classy,…..I do believe Lionel got it right this time for the excursion service, …….what people fail to realize, even when new, locomotives were painted in gloss, albeit a lacquer at the time, but nonetheless, a very high level of gloss, …..they weren’t flat like most models are painted, ……over time as the lacquer aged & weathered, then they’d go flat,…..gloss finish in scale is hard to achieve, ….this is a J I did for a fella in excursion service, ….no satin flat finish here,….

Pat

Pat,

Actually gloss finish is no longer had to achieve on the prototype steam locomotive restorations over the last 30 or 40 years, when the Dupont Imron paint is used. Plus, the Iron is really easy to clean, and keep clean, no mater what gets on it. We had a fuel oil spill on 4449's tender, and washed off the mess with diesel fuel, then used Dawn dishwashing soap as the final wash. She looked as good as the day she was painted!

@Hot Water posted:

Pat,

Actually gloss finish is no longer had to achieve on the prototype steam locomotive restorations over the last 30 or 40 years, when the Dupont Imron paint is used. Plus, the Iron is really easy to clean, and keep clean, no mater what gets on it. We had a fuel oil spill on 4449's tender, and washed off the mess with diesel fuel, then used Dawn dishwashing soap as the final wash. She looked as good as the day she was painted!

Agreed, ….I’ve sprayed a gazzillion gallons of Imron, …..I knew you fully understand finishes, Jack, ………it’s some of the folks on here **** bent everything is supposed to be painted flat finishes, ……a sight to see in the books are examples of Lima’s newly minted locomotives, sprayed in Glidden’s triple black lacquer, …..so glossy, you can see the reflections of the camera man & his tripod in the still,……😉

Pat

Just looking at the video, there a couple of details that I am liking. I'm waiting on a "as built" version and keeping my fingers crossed. It looks very good so far.

Heres video of 1210. ( not mine)

Nice Video! Love that whistle selection! 😎

I’m wondering what is up with the deck plate? Looks awfully high compared to the tender???

@RickO posted:

Heres video of 1210. ( not mine)

I ordered 1210 to have a WW2-appropriate Class A, looks outstanding in the video! Thank you for sharing Rick!

@N&W 1218 posted:

I’m wondering what is up with the deck plate? Looks awfully high compared to the tender???

It looks like it is not fully rested on the tender deck. This layout has a grade, so I'll speculate that the deck plate may have been nudged up when the engine started climbing the grade, and the hinge is not loose enough to let the deck plate move freely back down. I guess we'll find out when the rest of us get ours delivered.

@N&W 1218 posted:

Nice Video! Love that whistle selection! 😎

I’m wondering what is up with the deck plate? Looks awfully high compared to the tender???

If that’s the version with the Y3 tender, they probably didn’t match the deck height.

Similar to the smaller Atlantic tender they paired with their “stoker equipped” K4s in the Harding funeral set.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

I ordered 1210 to have a WW2-appropriate Class A, looks outstanding in the video! Thank you for sharing Rick!

It looks like it is not fully rested on the tender deck. This layout has a grade, so I'll speculate that the deck plate may have been nudged up when the engine started climbing the grade, and the hinge is not loose enough to let the deck plate move freely back down. I guess we'll find out when the rest of us get ours delivered.

And, maybe the owner just didn't take the time to push it down just like the cut lever on the back of the tender. I wouldn't be getting your panties all filled with hot cinders yet!

I’m curious to see how the fantasy scheme looks in person.

Terrance

The deck plate on my 1210 on RickO posting was newly out of the box yesterday. I had not adjusted and was taking it on its first run of my friend Jay Hines layout. My friend had picked up at the Lionel Store in Charlotte Friday. I can assure you the deck plate will line up properly. If you like the video please subscribe to his video channel. My only foul up running on his layout I neglected to see the Polar Express was on the same line. Luckily I manage to stop in very close the the Scale Observation Car. Please review his channel and enjoy. The Class A smooth run and functions is a home run for Lionel.

Got my 1210 today, looks and runs great!  The deck plate needed a little gentle persuasion, but does rest on the tender floor.  I'm very pleased with it!

@Big Jim posted:

And, maybe the owner just didn't take the time to push it down just like the cut lever on the back of the tender. I wouldn't be getting your panties all filled with hot cinders yet!

Oh I'm not, I'm just happy to have a scale Legacy Class A!

@SouthernFan56 posted:

The Class A smooth run and functions is a home run for Lionel.

Thanks for clarifying things! Do you know the track radius that you were running the A on? I've been working on various layout design ideas for awhile now and I am trying to decide what balance of articulated overhang and curve tightness (thus more track) I want.

We were running on O72 yesterday. I have not tested my 1210 on anything but the O72. My friend Jay Hines was running his 1201 fantasy scheme on his Youtube channel.

I ran on O72, and there is a fair amount of overhang and the drawbar must be put in the longest position for the deck plate to clear the tender sides.  If you have room, I'd suggest larger radius than O72.  O72 is tight for fast running, S-curves, etc.

I see a lot of people have gotten these or atleast notices that they are shipping.  Has anyone gotten theirs from nassau hobby?  I pre-ordered this and the two bay hoppers from them.

Speaking of the excursion, yeah that was the one with the gloss finish. I do remember a few people wanted the option to have 1218 without a gloss finish. At the time Ryan assured people(this was at York), that there would be several versions of the Class A. He did say that the 3D printed shell probably made the gloss finish even more so than what it should have been.

I got to pop a look at some of the videos. I haven't had a chance to look into anything lately other than a few posts. I really can't wait to see what the real model looks like, but mine has not come in as yet anyway. I have to wait until next year.

When the Class A was run as an excursion loco, were the cars the same (similar) to the cars run behind the #611?

@Jerryrails posted:

When the Class A was run as an excursion loco, were the cars the same (similar) to the cars run behind the #611?

Judge for yourself. This is a video that I took back in 1991 on my home district.

I just went through my inbox and saw the custom PRR Class A Mr. Muffins put out. It looks good except the red roof on the cab IMO. I do realize that the Pennsy often had red roof cabs, but to me it just looks a little crazy. Yeah, I do know it is a fantasy paint scheme, and a fantasy engine for the Pennsy, but ack. I think it would have looked better with a black cab roof. I guess the red in the tender would have to be black too as they would match?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I just went through my inbox and saw the custom PRR Class A Mr. Muffins put out. It looks good except the red roof on the cab IMO. I do realize that the Pennsy often had red roof cabs, but to me it just looks a little crazy.

Interesting it wasn't the 2 different reds Lionel has been using on pennsy stuff these days.

It's actually quite similar to the red  mth uses.

It appears that the fantasy scheme red for the “J” inspired Class A is the same awful red that branded the last run of Js. I don’t have the fantasy on order, but it would’ve looked soooo much better using the proper J paint. Oh well. (And I do understand it’s fantasy)

@RickO posted:

Interesting it wasn't the 2 different reds Lionel has been using on pennsy stuff these days.

It's actually quite similar to the red  mth uses.

I thought that it looked similar to the Black Bonnet Santa Fe red, but that could just be the contrast of black to red. Either way, I stuck with one of the regular models that is black.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I thought that it looked similar to the Black Bonnet Santa Fe red, but that could just be the contrast of black to red. Either way, I stuck with one of the regular models that is black.

Yeah, the Red is closer to SF red than any shade of Tuscan, Freight Car, or other shade of red the PRR used.

MTH showed a Premier model (20-3036-1) of Norfolk & Western Class A #1218 with PS1 in its 2000 Volume 1 catalog at MSRP $1399.00. It was delivered in February 2000. I believe this was the first O gauge model of N&W #1218.

MELGAR

N’awlins
I totally agree! They have no clue how to paint a true N&W Tuscan stripe.

@SouthernFan56 posted:

We were running on O72 yesterday. I have not tested my 1210 on anything but the O72. My friend Jay Hines was running his 1201 fantasy scheme on his Youtube channel.

@Burl posted:

I ran on O72, and there is a fair amount of overhang and the drawbar must be put in the longest position for the deck plate to clear the tender sides.  If you have room, I'd suggest larger radius than O72.  O72 is tight for fast running, S-curves, etc.

Thanks for the info. I am aiming for O72 to be the absolute minimum on my layout and am currently looking at O96, but O96 curves leave less straight space for things like large yards. Thanks again for sharing.

@MELGAR posted:

MTH showed a Premier model (20-3036-1) of Norfolk & Western Class A #1218 with PS1 in its 2000 Volume 1 catalog at MSRP $1399.00. It was delivered in February 2000. I believe this was the first O gauge model of N&W #1218.

MELGAR

And, despite my pleas, they put the wrong trailing truck under the firebox!

@Big Jim posted:

And, despite my pleas, they put the wrong trailing truck under the firebox!

That was remedied in later offerings.

Big Jim,

Many thanks for your info on the excursion cars. I am looking for an N&W smooth side baggage for the train.

Pretty neat engine. I can’t speak to how prototypical the overall design is but there are lots of cool details. It sounds awesome! Much better than the 2–10–4 Texan I just got. Smokes like a forest fire. It runs so smoothly…it just oozes down the track.  Being a Visionline engine I thought it would have the swinging bell but it does not.  I haven’t hooked up any cars to it yet so I can’t comment on the force coupler operation. Overall, very happy with it. Worth $2 grand? All I can say is ****, what isn’t expensive nowadays? I’m ok with it but my budget is depleted for 2023 already   😝

i’ve never owned a huge, articulated engine like this before. I’ve seen many pictures and videos, especially of the Big Boys. I’ve never noticed these articulated arms that seem to help stabilize the front end as it swings out. Is this unique to this model or do other large articulated engines have it?

Yes, very nice engine.  It also has road specific crew talk (specifically announced "Pennsy 3701").  I was afraid that for a custom run Lionel would just use generic crew talk dialog, but I am very happy that they put in the effort to customize the crew talk also.

One thing to note is that for a good size steam engine, it is relatively not very heavy.  The engine weighs in at 9 lb 7 oz (the tender is 4 lbs 1 oz).  For comparison, my Legacy EM-1 engine weighs 14 lbs.  As such I don't expect it will have top end pulling power (the pulling power comes mostly from the weight of the engine and the tire traction - no so much the motor).  Lionel probably reduced the weight to save cost somewhere?  They just don't make them like they used to!

@VJandP posted:

Being a Visionline engine I thought it would have the swinging bell but it does not.  

N&W Class A locomotives had pneumatic bell ringers that sounded the bells.  They did not swing.  The model portrays this accurately.

I’ve never noticed these articulated arms that seem to help stabilize the front end as it swings out. Is this unique to this model or do other large articulated engines have it?

The extremely tight curves O gauge locomotives tend to be operated on (even what would be considered a large diameter curve in O gauge is generally much smaller than exists in real life) exaggerates the look, but those are the steam pipes that would carry steam in or out of the cylinders.  In real life they'd flex somewhat to allow the locomotive to articulate.  The models allow much more flex than the real ones likely would in order to navigate the above-mentioned O gauge curves.

@VJandP posted:

Pretty neat engine. I can’t speak to how prototypical the overall design is but there are lots of cool details. It sounds awesome! Much better than the 2–10–4 Texan I just got. Smokes like a forest fire. It runs so smoothly…it just oozes down the track.  Being a Visionline engine I thought it would have the swinging bell but it does not.  I haven’t hooked up any cars to it yet so I can’t comment on the force coupler operation. Overall, very happy with it. Worth $2 grand? All I can say is ****, what isn’t expensive nowadays? I’m ok with it but my budget is depleted for 2023 already   😝

You left the foam under the tender between the trucks and the body.  Might want to remove that so it doesn't create any unnecessary drag.

@ntn-pa posted:

One thing to note is that for a good size steam engine, it is relatively not very heavy.  The engine weighs in at 9 lb 7 oz (the tender is 4 lbs 1 oz).  For comparison, my Legacy EM-1 engine weighs 14 lbs.  As such I don't expect it will have top end pulling power (the pulling power comes mostly from the weight of the engine and the tire traction - no so much the motor).  Lionel probably reduced the weight to save cost somewhere?  They just don't make them like they used to!

I noticed this! The 2-10–4 Texan feels like it weighs at least a pound or two more.

@MartyE thanks for mentioning this. When I went back and watched the videos, I noticed it and removed them already.  👍🏼

I got a call yesterday that my Class A arrived along with the Black River and Western set. Next year is when those will come home. I'm surprised that both of these got finished quick, though I did say to my brother that the SW1's had been run, so that may have made production faster for the BR&W set.

Good to see that Pennsy Class A @VJandP, and the red actually looks different from what I saw from Mr. Muffins pictures. Maybe it's just the contrast from where he took his picture and you to yours, what do I know though.

@ntn-pa posted:

Yes, very nice engine.  It also has road specific crew talk (specifically announced "Pennsy 3701").  I was afraid that for a custom run Lionel would just use generic crew talk dialog, but I am very happy that they put in the effort to customize the crew talk also.

One thing to note is that for a good size steam engine, it is relatively not very heavy.  The engine weighs in at 9 lb 7 oz (the tender is 4 lbs 1 oz).  For comparison, my Legacy EM-1 engine weighs 14 lbs.  As such I don't expect it will have top end pulling power (the pulling power comes mostly from the weight of the engine and the tire traction - no so much the motor).  Lionel probably reduced the weight to save cost somewhere?  They just don't make them like they used to!

The pulling power for any locomotive real or scale is based on the weight on the driving wheels. The motor only plays a part if it's undersized.

@VJandP posted:

i’ve never owned a huge, articulated engine like this before. I’ve seen many pictures and videos, especially of the Big Boys. I’ve never noticed these articulated arms that seem to help stabilize the front end as it swings out. Is this unique to this model or do other large articulated engines have it?

Like others have pointed out they are meant to represent some of the steam delivery pipes, but I've not seen ones like that on any of my articulated locomotives. That said I don't own a Class A. The way Lionel has used them as "stabilizers" is novel to me, and I think a good idea.

@VJandP posted:

Pretty neat engine. I can’t speak to how prototypical the overall design is but there are lots of cool details. It sounds awesome! Much better than the 2–10–4 Texan I just got. Smokes like a forest fire. It runs so smoothly…it just oozes down the track.  Being a Visionline engine I thought it would have the swinging bell but it does not.  I haven’t hooked up any cars to it yet so I can’t comment on the force coupler operation. Overall, very happy with it. Worth $2 grand? All I can say is ****, what isn’t expensive nowadays? I’m ok with it but my budget is depleted for 2023 already   😝

i’ve never owned a huge, articulated engine like this before. I’ve seen many pictures and videos, especially of the Big Boys. I’ve never noticed these articulated arms that seem to help stabilize the front end as it swings out. Is this unique to this model or do other large articulated engines have it?

Nice pick on the Class A. My vision big boy has those and I think so does my 2-10-10-2.

Here’s a pic of the 1218 I took back in March:

Looks like Lionel did a good job on the steam delivery pipes.

Lionel's JLC C&O H-8 Allegheny has those articulated pipes.  I imagine the Legacy version does as well being based off the same tooling.

Received our first black box yesterday.  It’s the WWII version #1210.  Trying to hold out till Christmas for opening, but I am weakening.

@jstraw124 posted:

Received our first black box yesterday.  It’s the WWII version #1210.  Trying to hold out till Christmas for opening, but I am weakening.

Test it, check it all out, make sure it isn't damaged.  Then put it back.  The disappointment on Christmas if something is amiss isn't worth it.

@MartyE posted:

Test it, check it all out, make sure it isn't damaged.  Then put it back.  The disappointment on Christmas if something is amiss isn't worth it.

Like the logic, but add that putting it back in the box may cause unforeseen damage.  May just need to leave it on the layout to be safe.😐

Oh the temptation....careful I took mine out and ordered a second Class A. They are smooth running locomotive.

One thing that I find different on the PRR version, and it may be on others, is that the low water alarm is uncovered. The early N&W version has the cover.

Once again, those are steam pipes, not stabilizers!

@Big Jim posted:

Once again, those are steam pipes, not stabilizers!

Understood. @VJandP said they were acting like "stabilizers"... I'm wondering if Lionel spring loaded them to help keep the front engine centered or whatever. If not, oh well. I was just taking the OP noticing them performing an additional function.

It would be kind of cool if they attempted to do that because one thing I've noticed is that with O-scale articulated locomotives they can look a little odd coming down the tracks if there is too much play side to side.

Here are some pictures of my WM M-2 Challenger. It has no such pipes there. It has steam delivery pipes between the wheels that go to the cylinders and then the exhaust turns inward and then up through the smoke box.

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Lionel's JLC C&O H-8 Allegheny has those articulated pipes.  I imagine the Legacy version does as well being based off the same tooling.

I have an H-8 but it's the MTH version. It doesn't have pipes like the "A". It looks much more like the WM M-2. I'd be interested to see pictures of yours.

@rplst8 posted:

Understood. @VJandP said they were acting like "stabilizers"... I'm wondering if Lionel spring loaded them to help keep the front engine centered or whatever. If not, oh well. I was just taking the OP noticing them performing an additional function?

That’s correct.   As far as the prototype goes, these are steam pipes.  But on Lionel’s other big articulated engines that I’ve seen, I’ve never seen “arms” anchoring the front end.   If they are acting like “stabilizers”, Lionel did a great job multi-purposing this piece as a prototypical steam pipe that doubles as a functioning stabilizer on the scale model.  

The original Scale Lionel Class A had the steam pipes in the front also. It’s just a part of the prototype.

Did anyone order the Pilot version? I contacted my dealer today and they said after the first of the year for delivery.

My lovely wife surprised me a day early for Christmas.

Never owned a vision line product or articulated steam engine, spectacular model in every way.

I need to redesign the tunnels on the curves to accommodate the boiler overhang

Only minor gripe is the drop plate between Locomotive and tender does not go all the way down. Did anyone have luck fixing this and how?

My friend 1218 bought his Big Boy over to run on my 072 max layout a few years ago. It took out a tunnel, some cars on a nearby shelf, and a metal thing over the track that I never knew what it did. But it used to look cool.

Here is a couple pictures of N&W 1211

Interesting that a few As trickled out and then the mother load shipments came later. My dealer says after the first of the year. Glad some got there’s before Christmas! I’m actually glad mine are coming later. It will help out my wallet. 😎

Paid for mine but it hasn't shipped yet - all these wonderful photos are making me want to buy a second!

So the only real issue seems to be the number board on the headlight area over here?

VL Class A 1238 Number board

I don't remember if that is the exact topic name, so I guessed from my phone. That is the link to that topic though about the number board being something different than 1238.

@RickO posted:

Heres video of 1210. ( not mine)

The video ended too early... did it hit the back of the Polar Express I wonder?

The back of the Polar Express Observation Car/Train was not hit. I was the faulty engineer enjoying a first run. I forgot my friend had both trains on the same track.

Collisions were always the fun when several friends ran trains. If you are worried about it, don’t run that engine.

1218 was always the switch guy, kept us on our toes…

Picked up my 1218 this afternoon.  I'm quite impressed with it so far.  The sounds, detailing, smoke effects, etc are all impressive as I would expect out of such a model.  My checkbook is hurting but running and studying the locomotive has definitely helped ease that pain a bit.  It's got the feline stamp of approval as well...

The O-72 minimum curve is definitely a necessity as certain detail parts nearly bottom out even on that diameter curvature.  I've noted that mine does not like making left hand turns on O-72 curves as the fireman's side forward running board step comes into contact with the back side of the headlight and pilot handrail.  I assume they're all this way simply based on the attention to detail without cutting corners to make it work.  The right hand running board isn't as long so it isn't an issue when going around a right hand turn.  Obviously larger than O-72 curves would be best for this, I simply don't have room for them in my current living arrangement.

A bit of a "walk around" tour in photos.  Excuse the makeshift apartment dining table photo studio and so-so iPhone photo quality

WoW! Thanks for sharing. The walk around is very impressive. I especially love the shot with the Giant Kitty! 😎 The 611 shot is also pretty special. 😍 I’m guessing that’s the J that came with the set??? The Tuscan color looks correct. 👍🏻

I didn't think I would care for the shiny paint, but from the pictures, I think it's really strikingly beautiful!

It’s all quite subjective of course depending on what you like. Not a fan of shiny black on an engine myself, looks too early-Williams somehow. But its a great looking model in many respects and the cab details are really well done! Enjoy. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

It’s all quite subjective of course depending on what you like. Not a fan of shiny black on an engine myself, looks too early-Williams somehow.

Rod

But it did happen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/8338953178

On a side note. While too much for my budget,and layout. These look great.

It's nice to see a non U.P. articulated from Lionel.  IMO the A is much more asthetically appealing.

@RickO posted:

But it did happen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/8338953178

Yah I knew that Rick. So it’s all good!

Rod

@N&W 1218 posted:

WoW! Thanks for sharing. The walk around is very impressive. I especially love the shot with the Giant Kitty! 😎 The 611 shot is also pretty special. 😍 I’m guessing that’s the J that came with the set??? The Tuscan color looks correct. 👍🏻

Happy to share!  I noticed that there were several videos out there since they've been getting delivered, but no real detailed still photos.

611 is the old TMCC model with some electronic upgrades.  A very nice model itself.

Any more comments on the deck plate between the engine and tender. The original JLC Y6b had a deck plate that rested on the tender. Looked and functioned great. I’m not seeing that on the videos and still photos. Looks like the deck plate is fixed in 10 degree angle upward.

1. Why would it be fixed?

2. Why in an upward angle?

Still waiting on mine so any help would be appreciated!

You folks that got the glossy finish restoration A, ….are y’all happy with it?..

Pat

The deck plate seems to have limiting nubs cast into the hinge loops that rest against the cab.  I wouldn't recommend bending a casting but a small amount of pressure in the case of mine was enough to get it to sit on the tender deck on level track.  Obviously it still rises up a bit when under way on uneven track, but as close as the cab is to the tender on this one with the kinematic drawbar, I can't say I've noticed it when on the track running.

I like the gloss paint on mine.  It definitely shows fingerprints as one would expect but they wipe off easily with a microfiber cloth.  I'll probably consider putting a pair of nitrile gloves or something along the lines of that into the box for handling it in the future.  My photos seem to exaggerate the texture of the paint with sort of an "orange peel" appearance, however in person I feel like it doesn't look quite so textured.  I took it to the train club this evening and most people seemed to like it for being something different than we're used to.  They weren't painted flat black in real life after all so they were shiny at least once before they got covered in soot and road grime.  Obviously the excursion look of 1218 that Lionel wanted to portray would have generally been clean and shiny as well.

@SantaFe158 posted:

The deck plate seems to have limiting nubs cast into the hinge loops that rest against the cab.  I wouldn't recommend bending a casting but a small amount of pressure in the case of mine was enough to get it to sit on the tender deck on level track.  Obviously it still rises up a bit when under way on uneven track, but as close as the cab is to the tender on this one with the kinematic drawbar, I can't say I've noticed it when on the track running.

I like the gloss paint on mine.  It definitely shows fingerprints as one would expect but they wipe off easily with a microfiber cloth.  I'll probably consider putting a pair of nitrile gloves or something along the lines of that into the box for handling it in the future.  My photos seem to exaggerate the texture of the paint with sort of an "orange peel" appearance, however in person I feel like it doesn't look quite so textured.  I took it to the train club this evening and most people seemed to like it for being something different than we're used to.  They weren't painted flat black in real life after all so they were shiny at least once before they got covered in soot and road grime.  Obviously the excursion look of 1218 that Lionel wanted to portray would have generally been clean and shiny as well.

Hmmm, ….very interesting,….as if you read my mind!…..I’ve been painting for over 35 years, and to this date, I never knew a picture could exaggerate orange peel,…..to death,……orange peel is orange peel, it’s either there, or it ain’t!….I’m very glad you’re happy with your new purchase, cause I’d be livid,……I am well aware of what a newly delivered, or restored locomotive is supposed to look like,…I’m just kinda surprised a multi million dollar manufacturer accepted that kind of finish on such a highly touted, & highly priced model,…..if you’re gonna lay down a gloss finish on a model, it’d better be slick as glass,…..gloss in scale is tough to do!…the slightest orange peel, and the message ain’t conveyed……they got to be slick like an eel,…..this is how it should be done…..the first represents as-delivered Mohawk in triple black lacquer, and the second is excursion J 611 done in gloss urethane to match high gloss Dupont Imron used on the J’s subsequent repaints in modern day …….again, I’m glad you’re glad, and thank you for posting the pictures, ……not knocking your model, it just doesn’t sit well with me, …..I’d be doing a re-shoot,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Hmmm, ….very interesting,….as if you read my mind!…..I’ve been painting for over 35 years, and to this date, I never knew a picture could exaggerate orange peel,…..to death,……orange peel is orange peel, it’s either there, or it ain’t!….I’m very glad you’re happy with your new purchase, cause I’d be livid,……I am well aware of what a newly delivered, or restored locomotive is supposed to look like,…I’m just kinda surprised a multi million dollar manufacturer accepted that kind of finish on such a highly touted, & highly priced model,…..if you’re gonna lay down a gloss finish on a model, it’d better be slick as glass,…..gloss in scale is tough to do!…the slightest orange peel, and the message ain’t conveyed……they got to be slick like an eel,…..this is how it should be done…..the first represents as-delivered Mohawk in triple black lacquer, and the second is excursion J 611 done in gloss urethane to match high gloss Dupont Imron used on the J’s subsequent repaints in modern day …….again, I’m glad you’re glad, and thank you for posting the pictures, ……not knocking your model, it just doesn’t sit well with me, …..I’d be doing a re-shoot,….

Pat

Yes I definitely see where you're coming from with those thoughts.  I also didn't pay attention to who I was replying to so my explanation probably came across as a bit more "educating" than I would have if I had been paying attention.  You've definitely posted some beautiful modeling projects over the years!

Most comments I've seen about the gloss have been along the lines of "why would anybody paint a model in gloss finish, real trains aren't shiny" so that was my thought process in answering.

@harmonyards posted:

.... and to this date, I never knew a picture could exaggerate orange peel,…..to death,……

Hah! You should know by now that if you want to see any defect in your workmanship, just post a photo of it online and it will stick out like a sore thumb! BTDT!

A few details that I find missing on this high end model that I would think should have been included is :
1.) The whistle cord. Actually it is not a cord at all but a metal rod that ran from the cab through the sandbox to the whistle.
2.) Curtains. Other Lionel offerings have them, why not this?
3.) The "Water Gauge" on the fireman's side of the tender.

Some detail photos of the 1218 that I took years ago for those who want to learn more.

Jim, when I was there in March the 1218 was on the track against the platform:

I brought my 1238 home yesterday:

This is my first Lionel with the Force Coupler. It seems a bit hyperactive especially in reverse. I haven’t looked at it very closely yet but I keep getting the ‘crunch-bang’ sound.

The Kadee setup is pretty nice and easy though!

@SantaFe158 posted:

Yes I definitely see where you're coming from with those thoughts.  I also didn't pay attention to who I was replying to so my explanation probably came across as a bit more "educating" than I would have if I had been paying attention.  You've definitely posted some beautiful modeling projects over the years!

Most comments I've seen about the gloss have been along the lines of "why would anybody paint a model in gloss finish, real trains aren't shiny" so that was my thought process in answering.

Oh I agree with you 100%, it’s about time the mfr.’s did some gloss models, ……if they did it a little wetter, and had their concoction a little thinner, they’d a nailed it,……but as I mentioned, if you guys are happy, then that’s all that matters,….what irks me is if I can get a slick finish in my one car paint booth, with just me & a gun, then to be sure a world class manufacturer should be able to blow my doors off, …..I mean, if they need a consulting service on how to get it right, I am available. I can’t speak of the things Big Jim says are wrong, the N&W really ain’t my cup of tea, only specific models that I’ve been contracted to build, but then I study up on them and get well versed,…..in the case of the J, it just so happens that locomotive frequents the NC Transportation museum, so I literally can go hang out with it for a while……I’m not knocking you, or your model Jake, they just could’ve done a better job,…..

Pat

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I brought my 1238 home yesterday:

This is my first Lionel with the Force Coupler. It seems a bit hyperactive especially in reverse. I haven’t looked at it very closely yet but I keep getting the ‘crunch-bang’

I have the 1210 and notice the same repeating “crunch bang” when in reverse, with or without pushing a line of cars.  While going forward I do not notice any hyperactivity. This is my first force coupler also.

Interesting! I can trigger the crunch sound with the engine at idle and pushing the trailing truck back and forth. I understand it’s some type of sensor, just not sure what kind. I looked them up on the support site. The Niagara breakdown shows it. The trailing truck armature/mount/sensor has about +/-3/32” of travel from center from my quick investigation. I’m wondering if it can be adjusted.

Minor issue aside, I absolutely love the whistle effects with the engine and tender speaker interaction. It’s my first engine with this feature and it’s really neat to play with.

@Norm Charbonneau you may want to go back a post or two and reload your video.  It's been "spinning" for an hour.  I for one would like to see it.

Eh, maybe I will get a quick YouTube up later.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

Interesting! I can trigger the crunch sound with the engine at idle and pushing the trailing truck back and forth. I understand it’s some type of sensor, just not sure what kind. I looked them up on the support site. The Niagara breakdown shows it. The trailing truck armature/mount/sensor has about +/-3/32” of travel from center from my quick investigation. I’m wondering if it can be adjusted.

Minor issue aside, I absolutely love the whistle effects with the engine and tender speaker interaction. It’s my first engine with this feature and it’s really neat to play with.

The issue hasn’t bothered me enough to investigate it at the workbench yet. I will eventually.  Besides, I currently have a long line coal cars hooked to it.  Going backwards is asking for trouble right now.

I am very pleased with the model. Every time I run it, I discover a new detail or feature.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I brought my 1238 home yesterday:

Hey Norm, I’ve watched a bunch of your videos and subscribe to your YouTube channel. Is it just me or is this a rare sighting of an active smoke unit on your awesome layout?  Looks fantastic. You should light ‘em up more often.

I don’t run smoke very often although I have a lot of engines with perfectly good units in them. I’d rather have decent weathering and be able to maintain it without the hassle of cleaning the oil off the flat finish. Another thing that some people seem to forget is that for us married guys, one trick to keeping marital bliss intact is to not upset your wife’s olfactory senses!

The smooth running and awesome sounds emanating from this beast more than makes up for the lack of smoke!

Now I need to find more hoppers and another caboose or two. Can’t believe how scarce proper N&W cabooses are considering how many popular N&W engines have been made.

I agree with the lack of a mass-produced, O scale N&W caboose. Lionel & MTH never had a problem producing fantasy paint schemes on almost anything, they can do the same with a N&W caboose, if they want to guarantee enough sales. Lionel produced the B&O I-12 Wagon top caboose, in various paint schemes.

HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS HAPPEN?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I don’t run smoke very often although I have a lot of engines with perfectly good units in them. I’d rather have decent weathering and be able to maintain it without the hassle of cleaning the oil off the flat finish. Another thing that some people seem to forget is that for us married guys, one trick to keeping marital bliss intact is to not upset your wife’s olfactory senses!

The smooth running and awesome sounds emanating from this beast more than makes up for the lack of smoke!

Now I need to find more hoppers and another caboose or two. Can’t believe how scarce proper N&W cabooses are considering how many popular N&W engines have been made.

I have been asking Scott Mann about offering N&W hoppers in plastic, seeing as how awesome their battleship gondolas came out. Perhaps now is the time to petition? Although I have a lot of brass N&W hoppers, I share your interest in more proper N&W hoppers and cabooses.

Greg P

www.youtube.com/trainbros89

Now is the time.

Everyone may not agree, but personally, I'm satisfied with the Atlas, Lionel & MTH 2 bay fish belly type hoppers. IT'S A CABOOSE WE NEED. That will satisfy 3 Rail & 2 Rail.

@ironman1 posted:

Everyone may not agree, but personally, I'm satisfied with the Atlas, Lionel & MTH 2 bay fish belly type hoppers. IT'S A CABOOSE WE NEED. That will satisfy 3 Rail & 2 Rail.

Atlas definitely makes some nice hoppers. I agree about the caboose offerings, someone needs to step up.

Mostly a repeat of my photos above, but there is some operating footage at the end of this brief video I put together yesterday.  The caboose running at the end of the train is an MTH product from the early 2000s.  It's the closest steam era appropriate N&W caboose I was able to dig up.  I doubt it's a perfect match for any true prototype other than the paint scheme, but it serves the purpose until someone comes up with something better.

A couple comments about the force coupler, I too noted some of the quirks mentioned above in its operation.  At one point I deactivated the feature as outlined in the manual and you can then control the "laboring" effects manually as with a normal Legacy locomotive.  I haven't quite decided which way I like better yet.

I am interested in getting the N&W 2231510 but have one anal question about the 5 whistle sounds - once a sound is selected, does it persist even after the track is powered off????

Yes it will hold on that selection until you press the AUX 1 button again then the whistle.

Maybe we will get matching aux water tender and cabooses in the next Lionel catalog.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

Now I need to find more hoppers and another caboose or two. Can’t believe how scarce proper N&W cabooses are considering how many popular N&W engines have been made.

The only time I remember finding near-prototypical N&W CF/CG cabooses for sale was earlier this year when two went up for auction on eBay - one in dark blue with the hamburger logo, the other red. I think both went for close to over $200 each. We need more of these made!

@ironman1 posted:

Everyone may not agree, but personally, I'm satisfied with the Atlas, Lionel & MTH 2 bay fish belly type hoppers. IT'S A CABOOSE WE NEED. That will satisfy 3 Rail & 2 Rail.

The non-peaked end fishbelly hoppers are fine, and I think are "prototypical enough" for certain classes of N&W hopper (I can't remember exactly which), but I would really love to see more of the peaked-end hoppers. Atlas is the only one I know of that has made them in 3 rail (and have found on the used market). More of these would be great, especially in plastic. Atlas' die-cast version is very hefty and feels great just to hold in your hand, but trying to pull a long string of them up a grade may not be possible depending on the grade and number of cars.

I repainted this Weaver 2 rail CG that was in the diesel scheme but I am not real happy with the way it came out. I may work on it some more but it’s real close to getting stripped and redone. I used an old Champ set of decals which were very thick and weren’t trying to stay on for me. Weaver did the CG and CF and they are hard to find. I doubt Lionel would tool one but you never know. Their N5 was pretty nice and unexpected.

They were cataloged in 2006, here’s the archived catalog:

https://www.yumpu.com/en/docum...atalog-weaver-models

I have a few of these Atlas hoppers which are good enough for now:

laz1957, thanks a bunch for the info on the whistle selection; glad to hear it stays persistent.

Happy New Year,

RickM46

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

The only time I remember finding near-prototypical N&W CF/CG cabooses for sale was earlier this year when two went up for auction on eBay - one in dark blue with the hamburger logo, the other red. I think both went for close to over $200 each. We need more of these made!

I really doubt a newly tooled cabin car from the big L would be much cheaper.

The orange peel kind of looks prototypical of steam engine paint jobs.

Weaver brass CF/CGs are worth 200-300 bucks imo. They are very nicely made. Sunset made a nice 2 rail CG too, maybe early 80s? A proper scale N&W steam era caboose tooled to modern standards in ABS would be welcome right about now, tooled to the standards of Lionel’s nice I-12 (fetching north of $100 lately) or the nice PRR N5s.

Here’s the CF at Roanoke:

So is the N5 all new tooling? That certainly is listed at a reasonable price, at $89.99.

A few years back it was, yes. The cupola is diecast for some reason!

I think Lionel could make a nice N&W caboose if they really wanted to. They could paint it Sponge Bob later on too I wouldn’t care.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

A few years back it was, yes. The cupola is diecast for some reason!

I think Lionel could make a nice N&W caboose if they really wanted to. They could paint it Sponge Bob later on too I wouldn’t care.

Man those are really nice looking as weathered!

Wasn't this cataloged in 2015? I assumed they were based on the earlier brass version they did years back.

I have the smoking version of the N5b they did and then an N5 that lacks the crash bars. I like them a lot.

Edit: turns out I got my cabin cars mixed up. Lionel did an N8 in brass in the 90s. Williams did the brass N5.

Hey Norm, I like your Sponge Bob suggestion. I’d even buy a Sponge Bob if that’s all they made…for $89.99. I’d just repaint it.😊 I’d definitely have to re-run my N&W caboose decals for sure though.

BTW, the Sunset CG caboose is ok, I have 2, it lacks the detail of the Weaver, mostly missing separately applied roof walks. It appears to be stamped as part of the roof.

Joe

Did Sunset do the CH? Here’s one on brasstrains:

https://brasstrains.com/Classi...tom-1979-Run-Lhee-Do

Here’s a nice page showing some prototype photos:

http://www.springmillsdepot.com/nwprototypephotos.htm

I believe the Sunset caboose is a CH (not a CG as I mentioned in my earlier reply). I'm not sure if Sunset produced a CG. Both versions are very similar and the same design as the wood sided CF, except with steel sides & the CH has end windows.

Quick shot of my 1218 on the test track with an MTH aux tender and an Atlas O N&W baggage/tool car. The gloss finish on mine came out pretty smooth. Looking forward to getting all of the excursion cars behind it (the earlier release cars with the correct paint color that matches that Atlas O car) Not sure what Lionel has been thinking lately with using what is basically red for their recent N&W offerings.

Anyone NOT receive their pre-order Class A yet? I'm still waiting on mine...

@pbuff posted:

Anyone NOT receive their pre-order Class A yet? I'm still waiting on mine...