NEED HELP - PS2 and BCR problems

Frank,

I don't believe that the problem is related to the BCR. It's much more likely that, when you were inside the engine changing out the battery for the BCR, that you did something unfortunate.

This is the reason that I have always been of the opinion that one should never open a modern, electronic engine without a very, very good reason for doing so. in your case the engine was running fine and there was absolutely no reason to swap out the battery. PS2 engines, unlike their PS1 predecessors, do not suffer any damage when the engine's battery goes low.

There are three things that I can recommend to attempt to put things right:

• The first is that you use a transformer with bell and horn buttons to perform a Feature Reset of the engine, as described in the engine's manual.
• If that doesn't remedy the problem, get someone with a full DCS set or DCS Commander (not a DCS Remote Commander) to attempt a Factory Reset of the engine.
• The last thing you can try is to get someone with a full DCS set or DCS Commander to reload the engine's sound file.

If none of the above do the trick, the engine will most likely need to be repaired. All of the symptoms of the problem points to the PS2 board as needing to be repaired or replaced, and a repair is much preferred over a replacement.

A replacement could become complicated since the engine uses a 5 volt PS2 board which is no longer available from MTH.

Barry,

Thanks for your insight.  I have tried to reset with my Z4000 with no success. I will try to find someone with DCS to see if I can do as you suggested.  It is disappointing that something like this can happen when you follow the manufacturers instructions!

Thanks again,

Frank

Frank,

It is disappointing that something like this can happen when you follow the manufacturers instructions!

The instructions are fine, however, opening the engine was unnecessary.

With all due respect, this one's on you.

Frank,

I may be wrong, but I suspect you broke a wire at the battery clip when replacing the battery. The clip can also be too loose and can be tightened using pliers.

As this engine has the 9 volt style battery, you may have a broken wire at the battery clip, loose connection or corrosion. Did the engine sounds continue when track power was cut off  or did the engine sounds stop immediately? If you see corrosion on the clip for the battery, it can be a problem also. The engine sounds should work for at least 6 to 7 seconds after the track power is cut off.

I agree with Barry that an engine, or a TIU or remote, should be opened as rarely as possible due to possibilityu of inadvertant damage.  MTH can't be faulted for not having the instructions say something like "Do not pinch wires."  Most MTH operators are not Californians who have to be told in print of anything they could do wrong.  "This locomotive contains wires which are known to the State of Calofornia to be susceptible to damage."

Joe,

Thanks - I checked the battery clip connectivity and it appears fine.  I also checked all the connections to the circuit boards and they are also fine.

Before I changed the battery the engine sounds stopped immediately, which is why I decided to change the battery.  Once I replaced the battery I lost all sound and direction control.  I am locked in forward and can't seem to unlock the direction if I hit the 1 horn 3 bells code to unlock.  The only thing that works is forward and the smoke unit. 

Thanks again,

Frank

RJR,

I prefer not to open any of the modern engines but sometimes you have no choice.  The design of this engine is that you must open the shell to replace the battery.  As this is an early PS2 engine it does not have the ability to be charged externally.  The only other option would have been to leave it on the track for 6+ hours to recharge, which I am uncomfortable with. 

Barry,

Am I correct in that you must be in neutral to perform a reset to factory default?  The problem I am having is that the engine is now locked in forward and won't unlock if I do the 1 horn 3 bells.

I guess I will have to try the DCS option.  I have purchased the DCS system a few years ago but have not yet installed.  I just purchased the DCS companion guide you authored so I guess this might be the time to try and switch over.

Thanks again,

Frank

Frank,

Am I correct in that you must be in neutral to perform a reset to factory default?

Try the reset from the transformer. Better still, connect the DCS and try to add the engine to the remote. Then do a Factory Reset once it's been added.

This one's on you. Unfortunately sad but true.

Opening the engine was unnecessary. This I totally disagree with.

The Engine has a 5 volt board which also most likely had the original 8.4 volt battery which was at least 7 years old. He runs conventional only. The engine will not come out of neutral when the battery is dead. MTH Prints in every manual how to change the battery. Unfortunately they do not tell you how sensitive the 5 volt board is to static discharge or warn you to wear a ground strap before handling any thing inside these engines. 

Forest,

The engine was running fine - sounds bell, engine sounds were all working with the low battery

Disagree all you like, however, the engine was running fine. Replacing the battery at this time was unnecessary. He would have been much better off, obviously, if he had simply attempted to charge the battery.

Regardless of how old the battery is, my experience has always been that it's life is measured form its initial charge, not the date of manufacture. If it wouldn't take a charge, then it would be time to swap it out.

I thought he replaced it because the sounds went dead and he assumed it was the battery?  Did I get that wrong?  If it went dead first perhaps he was correct to replace the battery if it wouldn't charge up?  Just wondering ...

If it was a PS2 system you would need to replace the battery with the BCR2, not the BCR1 ... different voltages.

Not to sound mundane, but did you let the engine sit on the track with power on for a while to let the BCR charge?

Also the BCR1 is for 5 volt PS2 BCR2 is for 3 volt PS2

The battery was dead - it would not recharge.  I had no option but to replace the battery if I wanted full utilization of the PS2 functionality.  I have replaced several MTH batteries in the past as I have many PS1 engines and am familiar with the internal mechanics of an MTH engine.  I have replaced the batteries in all of my PS1 engines with BCR's and have been extremely happy with the results. Given my PS2 Genesis engine was an early PS2 engine and used the same 9V battery as the PS1 I thought it would be a good idea to switch over and never have to worry about a battery again.  Obviously something went wrong and now the engine does not operate properly.

 I believe the early PS2 engines are 9v.  I have attached the link to the J&W site.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

http://www.jandwelectronics.com/

There are 2 different types of PS2 Systems. The early ones were a 5 volt system and used the 8.4 volt (9 volt) type battery. these are identified by the round recharging port on the underside of the engine. ( some did not have any) . The newer PS2 systems use a 2.4 volt ( 3v battery pack) and are identified by the rectangular recharge port on the underside. Not to mention the two battery packs look entirely different. If Frank removed a 8.4 v (9V) battery, then the engine uses a BCR1. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION on that point.

Not sure if this is of any help or if you have tried all this, but I have included a link to the MTH troubleshooting page.

MTH Electric Trains Troubleshooting

Matt

20-2244-1 is the product number. Franks engine is one of the first PS2 engines made and it has no charging port and uses the 9 volt style battery as I posted above. The Genesis is one of the easier engines to remove and replace the shell as it overhangs the frame and the battery is easy to access. Other diesels with catwalks down the side make it very easy to pinch a wire when replacing the shell.

I'm no sure what has happened to this engine, but if this engine had a BCR installed from the beginning, there wouldn't have been any reason to open it up to change out the battery.

Frank, it was not my intent to chastise you for opening the loco--obviously you had no choice--but rather to set out a caveat to other forumites not to open a loco w/o reason.

Cool.  Learn something new every day on The Forum!

On the other side of the block, when I dropped off a couple of Proto locomotives at the MTH Tech for upgrading he said MTH recommends NOT using the BCR in it's engines, but didn't know why they took that position.  I brought mine back with me; he insisted on using the battery that came with the upgrade kit.

Is this a standard "MTH position?"

Just wondering.

Kerrigan,

If memory serves me correctly, originally MTH did not endorse the BCR for use with PS2 engines. However, I believe that they later changed their position.

 While that may be true for the first few years, age does matters.  The NI-CD are beyond there useful life at this point in time.  Especially if they are original to the engine.  Usually when measured they are in the 6-7V region, if not dead.  Enough to continue to operate a PS-2 but a load on the charging circuit and power management Chips.  For what ever reason the older batteries do die quicker and they also can leach out corrosive material. 

Frank,  At this point in time, the PS-2 5V boards do have a tendency to work one minute and die the next, with no apparent cause.

I don't know if you resolved your issue, but worth checking your harnesses and connectors, also the speaker wires.  If there is an MTH tech in your area he can test the board for you. 

I had a similiar repair with a PS-2 that was not operating correctly.  The battery was dead and also had started to leach a corrosive grime.  I removed it and installed a new one.  The engine started fine on the test bench.  I shut it down and reinstalled the board bracket screws.

I went to test it once more before installing the shell and it was dead.  Removed it and placed it on the board tester and it was dead.  This happens.  This was done on an electronic work bench certified for electronic repairs.

I am interested in hearing if you could reset it with DCS, or whether it is permenatly locked in FWD.  G

GGG,

I have checked harnesses, connectors and speaker wires with no success.  I was also hopeful that after a few days the engine would reset but that unfortunately has not happened.  The engine remains on my work bench until I can either install my DCS system or bring it to a MTH tech. 

Thanks for your help,

Frank