New garden layout

Hey Davy.  I bought some Piko track.  Darn!   "Piko" "Peco" I got a bit confused.  I'm hoping the conductivity of the track won't matter if I am able to figure out the R/C thing.  

I am, however, interested in your used Peco G scale track.  I've ordered in the past from the UK and shipping hasn't been unreasonable.  I haven't really laid out a track plan, so don't know what I might need.  Right now it is likely just a simple loop, but I can see a future possibility of a switch or two.   Should we communicate about that through regular email?  If so, I am cgillette12@comcast.net.  I doubt I would need all that you have, but I trust there would be interest beyond what I might want. 

I'll do some rough measurements tomorrow.

Hi there Colorado, PIKO is a German company, Peco is the  UK company. I tried to email you but it bounced back at me as undeliverable ?? Anyway, try emailing me at David.Cormack3@btinternet.com and I'll see if I can reply that way. But aye I'm quite willing to send you whatever you think you need.  Been up to the wee sma hours so I'm away to bed 6 am !!! , will be back up at 8.00am and be playing bagpipes at a wedding at mid-day ! oh well,. Rick...you still there ?, hope you aren't drinkin another guiness trestle !    ha ha   DAVY 

Aye Lad, was taking a wee bit of a break from the forum.

Things have been off a bit lately. Haven't been feeling that...

As you can see from my previous involvement on this thread, I don't take the train thing too seriously. I like to have a bit of fun... when I come to the forum.

Did have meself half of another trestle module the other day... after moving my lawn.

A dead good reward.

I changed my train orders recently. I had a MTH BN SD24(hi-rail) arrive at my dealers, for me, but it had some running issues and had to be returned. I asked my dealer if they would mind if I changed the order... and get a MTH Premier scale wheels(2-rail) CNW AC4400CW, instead?

No problem. I, also, got them to change my MTH Premier CP H24-66 Train Master to a scale wheels version.

That will be 3 scale wheels units: a CNW AC4400CW, a CP Train Master and a Tarus 3 ES-64-U4. A nice sampling... to go with my lone scale wheels CN ES44DC.

I should be getting a call shortly for the CNW AC4400CW. I'm looking forward to seeing that. Nice livery for a AC4400CW.

Bedtime for me.

Take care,

Rick

Hi Rick, hope you're feelin better. You seem to be into modern diesels,I'm mainly a steam nut but then being born in 1953 and steam on the mainlines in Scotland still being around till 1967, and in coal mine operations till 1981 my love was for steam. I've tried my best to like diesels but I'm afraid they do little for me. Having said that ,I have just bought two old O scale Atlas 2 rail Santa Fe "Warbonnet" F units. Not high quality precision models but I've always loved that iconic American colourscheme and they'll do me fine for now. I don't think the santa fe red/silver warbonnet colourscheme was ever bettered and the old early F and E units still look better to my eyes than any diesel design since. As for steam I generally prefer USRA and USRA derivatives and east coast locomotives.However I always loved the Union Pacific FEF 4-8-4 one of which I've also just managed to get my hands on. I also like the UP Challenger and both these locos are still operational today so I might buy  couple of modern UP diesels and some modern freight cars to set a modern atmosphere to go with these two "modern" steamers.But for now I've just about spent all I can afford to till I get some serious selling of my HO and G stuff done. It gets too easy to get lost in buying eh ?  ha ha !

 Anyway,check this out http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=Polmadie,pictures of Polmadie Locomotive sheds (Engine terminal) past and present.(click on photos for full views) This loco facility was the biggest in Scotland and I used to pass it as a kid ver near every week on the local steam hauled suburban trains which ran from my hometown of Hamilton into Glasgow.Polmadie,pronounced (polma-dee) was steam nuts heaven.

 I remember well when my mother told me that there were "new" trains to take us into Glasgow. It turned out that the "new" trains were God-awfull diesel multiple units. I can remember sayin to my mam when I saw this green bus like creature,"wheres the engine?" ,well that was the start of my loathing of diesels.  The only good thing about these early diesel multiple units was that you could sit at the front looking up the track just to the side of the driver. So for a number of years steam was still around on freight and mainline passenger work ,so every time I went on the train to Glasgow after that I always tried to grab a  seat beside the driver so I got a grandstand view of all the rail activity ahead.Glasgow back then was a hive of heavy industry served by steam but you wouldn't know it today. All the big steel works and industrial complexes with their miles of rail sidings are gone.However ,I have the memories of the steam era.Today the line from Hamilton to Glasgow is ultra modern with electric overhead powered smooth as silk trains that whisk you into Glasgow in silence and where there once was industry its now all new housing estates and new roads and green fields, not a trace of the filthy old steamy soot encrusted industrial infrastructure to be seen.SO SAD. Ah well, didn't get a lot done over the weekend down to work commitments but I'm just about to go and get weaving on the railroad again !  catch you later Rick and guys DAVY

Oh well guys,heres today's progress.Shows newly rebuilt stone wall, rubble base,compost/soil with grit mixed thru on top, next,alpine plants and about a two inch covering of pea gravel. The right of way still to be completed ,but thats the centre formation rebuilt and where the station platform will be going and the by passing  siding. A wee station building, a platform and a couple of US style water columns either end will set the scene in the not too distant future I hope!.

Hi Guys , as I said in a previous post,steam lasted in Scotland in Coal mines up untill 1981 when these pics were taken. This the last place to use steam was Bedlay colliery just a few miles from where I live. This mine was worked by steam from 1905 till 1981 and diesels were never on the property in all those years. There were some 0-4-0 tanks "pugs"worked the mine as we called them in Scotland along with this old Hunslet 0-6-0T. I foot plated this loco in its last year of operation. It now resides forlorn and cold in the Summerlee heritage park in the nearby town of Coatbridge.You can just make out one of the "pugs" in the bottom right hand corner of the 2nd picture.NCB stands for National Coal Board. The 4 wheel mineral wagons you see too,once so proliferous  all over the uk are now a thing of the past too.   

Now just while I'm posting, some of you guys stateside probably have an impression of Scotland as a permanently misty wet place and it has to be said that yes we do get more than our fair share of the wet stuff ,but what few folk know is that we have beaches as white as any Carribean island and scenery to go with them and well,when the sun shines theres not a place on earth I'd rather be .We are a tiny country but we have some variety of scenery. Enjoy.... North West Scotland.

Good morning meson(it's morning here on the west coast... 8:45, as I write this),

Just got back from dropping off my critter at the vet, for surgery. He, my critter, hates going to the vet.

Correction: the CNW I previously mentioned is actually MTH's new Dash 9 model... not an AC4400CW. They look fairly similar, though.

Some interesting equipment on that site you provided. Lots to see.

I wouldn't mind having some steam, but the models I like are usually fairly big; and I'm crowded inside(the room my trains are in) as it is.

Just about bought myself a nice Premier 4-8-4, a few years back. Had a MTH Duchess ordered a few years ago too, but it arrived at my dealers DOA. So back it went and I cancelled that order.

BTW, my dealer's location is thousands of miles away from me, so I get my dealer to test all my new equipment, prior to having it shipped to me. A real buzz killer... anticipating a new arrival and it arrives defective. Best to find that out before it gets shipped out.

Your layout is coming along nicely. I can picture trains running there.

At first, when I saw that beach scene, I thought I had clicked onto the wrong thread. Nice looking beach...

Cheers,

Rick

Forgot to mention EMD E and F units in my last post. Some of the most aesthetic looking locomotives ever built.

I also like Alcos FA's, and their PA's have grown on me, too.

You are correct Davy... I do like modern diesel-electric locomotives, but I've have equipment  from all three generations of diesel-electric production.

Re: Glasgow's former heavy industry appearance... I imagine that industrial allure hook catches many appreciative eyes. That whole industrial revolution thing... definitely has a unique charm. Tactile when viewing... you can feel what you are seeing.

Rick

Davy,

I saw a show on African tigerfish, yesterday, and it got me thinking...

Perhaps a strategically placed moat, well stocked with tigerfish, might help to keep intruders in check/at bay...

A few Hydrocynus Goliaths roaming Loch Rick might make a nice wholesome feature, for you and your back garden/layout guests to enjoy.

Sort-of like Pit Bulls with fins...

Take care,

Rick

Hi Guys, spent the day tidying up the small lawn next to he house now that the wall is finished. Also turned it over and got it ready for re-turfing which is half finished tonight . Should finish it tomorrow. In a rush tonight,need to scoot  DAVY

Hi Guys, well heres todays progress.Got soaked to the skin in the rain laying turf in but thats the area next to the house almost completely made over. next move is back up to the paddling pond area to finish that patio,then I might finally get some more track laid and do some actual train stuff for a change. Anyway things moving along OK. As for tiger fish Rick ,maybe some Pirhanna too,then invite the wife to go for a swim eh ?? ha ha !!

That's a fine looking job you did installing the new turf, Davy. Well done!

Best pictures, yet... of your layout. The lawn and rock work compliment each other very nicely.

Very impressive, me son.

Cheers,

Rick

Hi Rick, aye things are startin to come together. Justr took this next picture from the kitchen diner. Sat a couple of locos out at the station area for this picture. I'll be sittin at the dinner table watchin the B&O,L&N,Santa Fe and whatever else takes my fancy. (The swing seat is just dumped there to get a coat of paint before it gets put back up in the top left hand corner of the garden near the paddling pool.2nd picture looking out the dining room to the left and theres the engine serrvicing and the wye area,the  coaling tower and standing  locos will be a pleasure to my eyes  room with a railway view eh ? can't wait to get the trains runnin !   DAVY 

 Looking good Davy!!  I see alot of dead "G" gauge trains laying around, whats up with that?  BTW the lawn looks great, maybe you could fly over to Idaho in the states and finish the lawn in my back yard.  I may be looking at knee surgery again and that will put a halt to any progress on the back yard and the upper loop on my outdoor layout.  Such is life, I need a good tune from your pipes.  Looking forward to see your trains run.

Chuck

Not bad, being able to watch from inside... Those midges of yours will be a little disappointed, though.

BTW, I've seen a few bad turf jobs... where there's been spaces left between the pieces of turf. It looks like you laid yours nice and tight.

See ya,

Rick

Davy, you may be interested to know, Darstaed are doing a Jinty and a Pannier in NCB livery, and a 2 rail version is on the way. There is a Scottish Distributor, Chris Reeve.

 I was thinking of pouring a concrete raised roadbed for the G scale track and then shoving the track in when still wet?

 Then, when closer to dry, hosing it down to expose the aggregate? Ever try this?

Hi Joe, never tried it. To be honest I think it might be quite a messy business and tricky to do. But might work.I'd definately do a trial run with a short piece of track as an experiment 1st though. I could see curves being a real problem too unless you were using set track. Would certainly be interesting to see how you got on. But I certainly would only do an experimental run first because I'd be doubtfull. I have seen something like that done with ponds.  It was the sloping side of a pond.Some kind of chemical was applied to the surface of the concrete while it was setting.Once the concrete was set a hose was applied and it left the gravel exposed,lookedlike a gravel beach kind of effect.But then I thought,well ,why not just scatter gravel onto  the surface of the wet cement ??? Anyway Joe , nothing ventured nothing gained.  Cheers  DAVY 

 That maybe a better idea? I could put smaller gravel on top and not risk harming the surface? That method also may keep the track cleaner?

Hi Joe, to be dead honest with you I still think you should consider my original method.I've taken a few close up shots for you of a bit of the G track I still have in situ. This is Peco G45 mm. The rock chips are 6mm rock crushings. Remember this is G scale and not O we are talkin about. These chips are heavy enough to just lie there and not get caught up in the mechanisms of your locos. To me cementing the chips down is a waste of time and effort when all you need to do is lay the track then brush the chips on dry. Different ball game with O,finer gravel and more delicate loco mechanisms so I don't want enything loose flying around this is why I'll be doing my O track ballasting with a dry cement mix. (see earlier on in my postings) I'd still suggest the timber in cement method.It isn't rocket science and is fairly straight forward. I think tryng to work track with wet cement will prove a nightmare to be honest. Cheers  DAVY 

Joe, and Davy,

Here in the US, there is a product called crusher fines which can be had from a concrete block factory. New crusher fines will setup almost like its cement after it has been wetted.

What you may consider in your outdoor trackwork is to lay the concrete base, then ballast with the fines (which are small), then carefully wet down the ballast. On curves you may have to fasten the track to the concrete if it is not pre-bent.

Davy

Since I refurbished the roadbed for the G by way of your instructions, we have had two absolutely huge torrential rains. You might recall about half of the line is up on a earth embankment. I am pleased to report no washouts or undercutting of the roadbed. I am very pleased to see just how seamlessly your road fits into the overall landscaping of your yard without dominating it. In fact, by way of my eyes, it is an enhancement of interest. Your road is a real inspiration.

Engineer Joe,

Chris had mentioned crusher fines, and by way of trying varying ballast mixes, it is the best. That being said, as Davy said, O scale is another matter. I highly recommend going to a feed store and buying what's called "chicken grit" Same thing in a O scale size that locks up very well together.I wouldn't recommend sticking the track in wet cement, as unless you grade it carefully, you could have pooling of water. On the one grade I have, I cut a ditch at the bottom of the embankment to drain the roadbed in a torrent. Its fun dealing with more prototypical issues. Also..remember that in very hot climates in the U.S, track expands and contracts in the real world as does model track. Leave enough room for expansion at the joints per the real deal. Keep us posted.

Bruce

Boy Davy this thread is already up to 5 pages and you haven't started running trains yet.  BTW you could bring your pipes to Idaho with you, my son wants to learn how to play them.  He wants me to learn with him, but at my age that might take a few years.

The layout is really looking good.  Chuck

Hi Guys,

          Well, nothing new done in the garden to report other than some wall building up at the paddling pool area. I was away down working in England last night down in the Birmingham area. Anyway did the gig and spent the night down there then got up this morning and headed back home to Scotland. On the way up the M6 Motorway  lo and behold I spotted the exhaust of a steam loco on the adjacent railway mainline and sure enough out of the trees came the wonderfull sight of 46233 "Duchess of Sutherland" hammering along at speed,I checked my speedo and it was registering over 70MPH(don't tell the cops!) and she was going as fast as  we were.Beautifull sight so she was and we paced her fairly close up for a couple of miles before Motorway and Railway went their seperate ways.So what a lovely suprpise that was. heres the loco in question. Originally a London Midland and Scottish railway(LMS) loco she was retired by British Railways in 1964. Recently overhauled and repainted in BR early 1950s livery. Heres a clip of her I found on you tube as she is now.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywLtFKmJ4Kg&feature=related     Cheers  DAVY 

 Thanks for the help. I've never ran a single train outside. I'm trying to guess what I'll be up against. My girl liked the look of small P gravel for the landscape. It's round rock that does not bite. I'm guessing that the track will move excessively on it. When I walk on it I can feel it move. I'm trying to figure a way around this. I do not mean to interupt your thread. I don't want to have my trains flipping over! Joe

You're right.  If at all possible, you want to use rocks that will grip--crusher fines or the equivalent is the preferred ballast material for many/most garden railroaders.

Davy

All that work you are doing inspired me over the weekend to replace a bridge by building one myself after looking at the cost of pre-built structures. This one I made from old garden stakes and some leftover exterior plywood for a covered bridge that fits into the backwoods short line theme of the garden pike. I am looking forward to see your next round of photos.

Hi Bruce,

          heavy rain over the last couple of days has held me up big time however was back into it today. However just stonework again though I did lay some timber for the off tracks from the turntable tonight. PS your photo of your bridge isn't showing Bruce ??   Cheers  DAVY

 Davy

I haven't had any luck with inserting photos today.They show up in draft comments but not when posted.

Bruce

Hi Davy,

When you have a chance, could you say a little more about your water feature.  I looked at the pictures you have posted and read what you have described.  I understand it is important not to have any plastic showing.  From what I can see the way you have done that is to overhang stones (and deck).  I can't see whether the stones extend to the depth of the water.

I think you mentioned using a pond liner.  Is that set on any sort of underlayment fabric?  Is the base under the liner sand?  Do you have a pump that takes the water from the pond to the top of the stream?  Is it a submersible or above water pump?  Is the stream also lined or concrete?  I see a lot of vegetation on the bottom and some floating debris.  So there must soil on the bottom? 

Sorry for all the questions.  I am planning a similar pond/stream, though likely a bit smaller than yours.  Unlike yours I will not have fish and had thought of a gravel and rock bottom.  I do have animals so I wouldn't put anything in the water that could be harmful to them.  Any pointers you can offer will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Craig

Craig:

I have 2 ponds in my front yard and 1 in my back yard. Front yard are two separate ponds connected by a small stream. The path to my front door crosses the pond via a concrete bridge. It was built using the "shell" of the previous, smaller pond that was there. A thick fabric underlayment followed by a "standard" 45 mil black rubber liner. 

A "PondMaster" pump, located at one end of the pond in the skimmer box pumps water to the other side. Skimmer box hold the pump, a number of PVC pipes set in for bacteria to grow on as well as support 2 or 3 thick foam pads as a strainer. Water also passes through a skimmer net. Once we get to the waterfall, water passes through some more PVC pipes and foam pads that support two large 100+ pound mesh bags of lava rocks which are used for bacteria to grow in various holes and pores in the rock. The waterfall box is a thick plastic box itself. Rock surrounds it as well as plants. Rock hides the plastic box and boulders are placed for optimal flow. Above the lava rocks where the water flows over rocks and boulders into the pool are floating plants to aid in oxygenating and filtering the water. 

Various plants such as Lilies and Iris are planted in the rock in the pond. THe entire pond is filled with rocks ranging from 150lb boulders to pea sized gravel. I have, at last count, 11  Comets and Shubunkins swimming around. I'd strongly recommend fish! 

I also have a small pond in my backyard, that I filled with soil this spring and attempted to plant flowers in it until it flooded in heavy rain. It is concrete and can easily be reactivated if I choose. I don't want to run it this year due to mosquitos and the difficulty in keeping it clean and water flowing. There is no filtration system, just a basic pump to move water. I've moved that pump to the big pond out front and placed it on a flower pot in the water to move water and provide a nice second water feature next to the waterfall. 

Below are some older photos taken immediately after spring cleaning the pond before we started on the cleaning and planting of the yard following the worst winter on record for our area and some heavy duty waterfall reconstruction. Note that many plants had not yet come back...the pond is full with Iris and various water lilies. I'll have to take a current photo and post it tomorrow so you get an idea of what it looks like "in season". 

Note the lanterns in between the planter boxes on the bridge, they give off a nice amber light at night. Underwater lights on timers are in the pond but we generally don't use them as they tend to shine brightly into the master bedroom

Thank you SJC for the detailed information.  Very nice looking pond.

I didn't realize that I would need so much filtration.  Two 100+ pound bags of lava rock must be huge, and the PVC pipe set up sounds a bit complicated.  Do you have to replace the lava and pipes or periodically wash all of them? 

I have a modest sized fountain (in a galvanized basin partially filled with river stones inside a half whiskey barrel) that requires very little.  I skim the top occasionally by overflowing while feeding with a hose at the bottom.  That keeps the water pretty clear.  I figured the same for the pond and stream - just have a pump at the bottom of the pond running water to the top of the stream.  I also planned a spillway to occasionally skim the top water off like I do the fountain. That may be a bit naive, eh?

Maybe I need to rethink this some.

If you don't intend to keep fish and plants and just use it as a "fountain" than you could likely get away with less filtration. I do strongly encourage you to investigate getting fish and plants and the filtration system they need - they provide hours of enjoyment throughout the years. 

The lava rock, pipes, and foam pads get power washed each spring during the big spring cleaning. Other than that, they stay put unless an emergency necessitates taking them out (which I haven't had to do in years). 

By your description, and again if you don't intend on fish/plants, you should be OK but I think that depends on the area of the pond, what kind of things can get in there in terms of fallen vegetation, etc. My backyard pond ran for years on just a single pump recirculating the water. My neighbors across the street also have a small pond in their yard, which has fallen into disrepair over the past few years. I remember when it was quite nice with a small fountain and fish swimming around. From what I was told by them, they built it by purchasing a plastic children's pool (something you could find at any large name toy store, home store, etc.), put it in the ground, put a liner over it, filled it mostly with rock and placed a small pump to recirculate the water in there and 2 or 3 cheapo goldfish. For years it was problem free until other projects caught their attention. 

Here are two current photos, taken this afternoon, of my big pond. It is a rainy day causing some displacement of mulch and whatnot...waiting for the weekend before doing some work, cleaning, and pruning again. It is in need. The goal is to keep it balanced with the proper number of fish and plants and of course, the proper filtration system. 

On the right, under that large piece of flagstone in the skimmer box described in my earlier post. You can also see the "bubbler" pump in the center taken from my small pond in the backyard. In the skimmer is a net to catch floating debris, two or three foam strainer pads and the pump. Also included is a (currently inoperable) automatic filling system that tops off the water level automatically. The bridge on the left goes over the stream. 

Moving on to the left side of the pond, you can see the waterfall and other side of the pond. That tall plant is a yellow Iris. Floating are different varieties of water lilies, water lettuce and floating at the top of the waterfall box is water hyacinth and water lettuce which provides protection for the fish, oxygenation, and algae control. The Iris needs to have its spent blossoms trimmed this weekend. On the right of the waterfall is a decorative grass called Mondo Grass which is not to be mowed...I'm thinking about taking it out as I never liked it much and I feel it has a very messy appearance. 

SJC, your pond looks fabulous. You have better luck with water lilies than I have had, but then my pond is partially in shade under some norway spruces.

I also recommend fish if you're building a pond. Though you better devise a way to keep predators out. I lost 5 Comets before I was able to fabricate a net to cover my pond. Turns out there is either an Egret, Heron or Hawk that patrols my backyard, I've seen all three.

Thanks Chris. The lilies and Iris were put in the pond unpotted - which I don't particularly care for - by the landscapers and were firmly rooted in the rocks before I realized that. One spring when it is drained I plan on pulling all of them out and dividing and potting them. 

I did have a nice Dogwood tree over the waterfall until my "expert tree pruning" ended its life...a small Japanese Maple has taken its place and is slowly growing more and more each year.  We plan to plant some small dwarf evergreens or some bushes in front of the hose, utility meters, window, to hide them..it is too bad my neighbors put no pride of care into their houses (only two in the neighborhood on each side of me of course!) and I can't hide them! Always something to do but never enough time or money! 

Hi Guys, been busy the last couple of days ,will post some new pics soon.

 I dug out these two old pictures attachedof my garden at different times years past . As for my pond. I have no filtration system at all.I also don't ever feed my fish at all. Only time I ever fed them was when the pond was new.Just fed them enough to support them till nature took over. I read a book once that said, set up your pond and leave it totally alone ,let it green up or whatever nature will sort it out in time and I have to say that has proved right.My fish are healthy and feed and breed in the pond on whatever creeps and crawls in there naturally.The pond only seems to support what it can. I do lose fish at times to Herons but there are enough hidey holes for the fish to hide in away from predators. You can see from previous pictures how clear it is.  Cheers  DAVY 

Hi Guys,

         Been workin away when possible as we've had some bad weather intermittently.Anyway ,have the turntable tracked and the off roads set. Starting to lay out the engine terminal trackwork.(waiting for an order from peco for a curved turnout to get the run off the mainline at the necessary angle)  Lionel coaling tower and water columns have arrived from the states. So its starting to look the part. Now thats what I'll call a rail-fan's view from the dining table window when its finished. Steam nuts heaven ha ha !Also put a new front on the shed and made a bridge into the shed for the track from the garden.(all with old decking timber that somebody dumped I haste to add !cheaper than buying it.Will be fine with a coat of paint!)Also finished the new steps up to the stone patio at the paddling pool and pushed on a bit with that.Anyway heres the pics.  Cheers  DAVY 

Davy once again, very inspiring! I just want to get my lawn mowed. Are you sure your not a stone mason, impressive stone work in my opinion. I see you have the Lionel Coaling tower out. Looks great..

Davy

Had to comment. One word. Wow. As your project is unfolded, I have to say that this has to be one of the most impressive O layouts I have seen, indoors or out. It just seems to fit seamlessly into the landscape and like Seacoast, the rock work just adds another terrific dimension to it. It seems to bind all the elements together..