New MPC lionel issues

That external plastic gear is a pain in the caboose.  You might have to metal gears in.  Or get a postwar engine which has a shot bosy, and put the MPC seal on it.

Dang. And I have a ton of MPC with little or no running time on it. Something to look forward to, I suppose. 

My understanding is that the black plastic gears fail easily, but the white/translucent ones hold up well.

Some of the various replacement gears are available in metal. Check with your favorite parts dealer. Be certain to give him the model number of your engine.

I was wondering if its possible to redo these gears with metal and not cause excessive wear on the other parts.

Yes and I remember back in the 780's scale tin rail was a co that would even give you reduction gearing to make those MPC's creep!

I wonder if the nylon was used to keep it quiet? Or keep it cheap? Or was it to keep from wearing out the rest of the driveline? If I go to metal on some (or all) of them, then will the entire driveline experiance wear problems? My local Lionel train shop supplies OEM style gears, I'm not sure where I could get metal ones, I'm just wondering if this becomes a chronic problem I'll have to look deeper.

If you get in touch with a good postwar parts dealer, and explain your problem, I am sure there are metal gears that could be used in place of the damaged plastic ones. 

Some online parts dealers have both the original plastic and a brass replacement for the late 70's Trainmaster as well as the F3 worm wheels. Not sure if idler and pinion gears are available in brass.

The plastic gears were made to keep the drive train noise down. The nylon gears do not need lubricating, so maintanance is reduced. Would suggest replacing all gears at once.

Larry

Yeah, that sounds about right, they do run quiet but I don't care. I need them to last. these repairs are a P.I.A. I'd be interested to know the names of those dealers if you don't mind posting them here. 

Get in touch with Chuck Sartor. I think he can help you with this.

Rob

I've got an update. I split the difference. My local Lionel dealer ended having the F-3 gear in nylon & the Trainmaster gear in brass, so I went with that. The guy I recently bought the F-3 from paid me the money I was charged for that repair so I made out ok after all. I'm  betting the other trucks on these locos have similar problems down the road & I'll be back at this again. One I was able to do myself, but the other one needed a wheel pulled so they had to do that one for me. 

I can do gear replacements if you need any in the future.~~~~~thanks Rob!

Brasseur Electric carries brass worm wheels for certain Trainmaster (part 623-22) and F3 (part 2328-82) locomotives. Not knowing which locomotives you have, these may or may not fit your locomotives.

Larry

How do you get the worm wheel gear on & off from inside the truck frame? 

The wheels need to be pulled to replace the gears.

For the Trainmaster truck, the side frames need to be unbolted, and one center wheel needs to be pulled off. The axle is then tapped out using a rod or punch until it is free of the worm wheel. Installation is the reverse. Slide the worm wheel on the axle and tap the axle on the wheel side (NOT the wheel itself) until the axle comes out the other side. You may need to use a shim between the worm wheel and truck body as you are tapping in the axle to insure the gear is centered on the axle, or it will be off center when you tap the axle all the way home.

Larry

Interesting. I could handle that. Also looked into a Lionel wheel press. Was shocked to see the whole kit & caboodle goes for $700-$800. 

I'm working with F-3's from the 1980's MPC days & the 1990's LTI days. 1983, 1990, & 1999 respectively. The Trainmaster is from 1987. 

quote:

Interesting. I could handle that. Also looked into a Lionel wheel press. Was shocked to see the whole kit & caboodle goes for $700-$800

700-800 is a lot of money if you only think about doing one or two jobs. I purchased my first press outfit thirty years ago, and have used it regularly since. I occasionally use it for household jobs too.
I am not certain what 700-800 dollars will buy. The folks selling press outfits today offer a lot more tooling than Lionel did. I expanded my set over the years, buying tools when I needed them, or when they simply looked like they would be useful. Tools often get used (carefully) for something other than their intended purpose.

I found this picture of the Lionel/Hobby Horse outfit's promotional brochure on the web:

There is no need to pay all that money for the complete lionel tool set. You can get a usable press and buy just the wheel cups you need right now, for around 300.00. The average guy would never need or use that whole lionel set. I bought this type press from Harbor freight then had a local machine shop modify it to use the tools and wheel cups. Counting my wheel cups, I have less than 250.00 in all of it. You can buy any tool piece you may need later separately.

http://store03.prostores.com/s...vet-%26-Wheel/Detail

Rob

I'm very interested in that. Is this Hennings one set up to use the Lionel wheel cups or does this have to be modified? 

They all use the same wheel cups that hobby horse actually makes, and sells. Jeff Kane sells them too. Lionel press and tooling was actually made by other companies.

Here is another place to get a press. You can buy just the diesel wheel cups and be ready to go for around 310.00.

http://lioneltransformer.com/h...s_and_tools_for_sale

Rob

What are all those rivet tools for? Not familiar with that. 

Lets see.. Rivets for coupler knuckle pins, rivets that hold trucks to the frame of some freight cars, rivets that hold some track switches together, rivets for carbon rollers in KW and ZW transformers, rivets for armature plates and springs on post war coupler base plates, rivets that hold accessories and sub assemblies together...almost everything uses rivets, and you need the proper tools to reinstall them properly if you want to do a factory-like job of it. Are the tools necessary? Many people improvise and may not care if their job does not look "factory". Others want that factory look, or they are doing repairs commercially. A less expensive alternative is the Brakemans Riveting set. Similar type tools, but you use a hammer instead of an arbor press to clinch the rivets, and you may need a third hand to hold the work when you use them.

Larry

Got my diesel wheel cups from Jeff Kane. I also had a local machine shop make some special wheel and axle bearing tools for me. You can buy more tools as you find need for them.

Rob

Ok, guess I AM familiar with it, just didn't realize it yet. Sounds good guys. I like the Hooby House one. I'll probably get all the tools with it too. Just gotta sell it to the wife. Ahahahahahahaha.

Ok, so, simple logic seems to imply that the STX-360 from Hennings is a better deal because it comes with the rivet tools where the green one doesn't? That's a savings of $145 right there. Why wouldn't I want that one if the additional wheel cup set will fit in it no problem? 

I think it all comes down to personal preference, and what one is accustomed to using. 

The STX 360 may not have room for standard gauge engines, Im not sure. Cost was THE factor for me.

Rob

You will probably want some sort of wheel puller too. I see the ones offered by the Lionel factory on Ebay, but I think they go for too much money. What do people use?

 I use this puller. The second item down the page .  You will toss the old Lionel pullers after using it. No more chipped wheels.

http://www.ehobbytools.com/contents/en-us/d1.html

Rob

I guess I've ruined a few wheels. Lionel warned repairmen to use something to spread out the contact area for certain wheels, such as the Hudson. The last wheel puller that Lionel offered had wider jaws. I guess that should reduce the chances of chipping a wheel.

The puller Rob linked looks good, and costs less than what Lionel service station pulers typically cost on Ebay.