Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Mark, how about a hair pin turn to reduce elevation. Even single lane would work. Seen enough of them in my travels.

Also the road over the tracks can be humped.

Hi Mark, I like your idea of going over both sets of tracks and like Jeff said it can be jumped. There are several bridges here in Joplin that way.

@mike g. posted:

Hi Mark, I like your idea of going over both sets of tracks and like Jeff said it can be jumped. There are several bridges here in Joplin that way.

Mike, can you explain your comment that a bridge can be jumped?

@pennsyfan posted:

Mike, can you explain your comment that a bridge can be jumped?

Lol it was spose to be humped!

Mark Boyce: An article from the Wilkinsburg Sun. March 2025

Laketon Road: The Laketon Road Reconstruction project is the first phase of a two-phase project that will convert the brick portions of Laketon Road and Graham Boulevard from brick roads to asphalt. The project will also install ADA ramps and relocate catch basins as needed along these roads. This project will improve safety for pedestrians, bicyclists, motorists, and public transportation riders. As borough residents are aware, the borough has a number of aging, brick surfaced roads. A large portion of the bricks that make up these roads are in a state of disrepair due to their old age. More significantly, the road bases below the bricks have been failing for some time. The combination of damaged bricks and failing bases has created undulating road surfaces that are a safety hazard for multimodal users of the roads. To begin addressing this problem, the borough applied for a Commonwealth Financing Authority (CFE) Multimodal Fund (MMF) grant in July 2023 for a $1.4 million project to convert the brick portions of both Laketon Road and Graham Boulevard into asphalt streets. The borough was awarded, in November 2023, a $643,268 MMF grant. This award provided sufficient funds for the design and construction of the Laketon Road portion of the project.

As one who grew up (?) in Wilkinsburg / Western PA, I have always felt the true character of the area started with brick streets. It seems that the era may be coming to its end.  If one models Western PA in the 20th century the work you are doing is essential. I love it !!

John

@Mark Boyce posted:

... Last evening, I had another idea ...  A twisty turn at the end of a street...

Mark, I must have read you mind last night.  I was thinking the same thing, but thought you may not want to shorten the fire station's driveway.  Regardless, I think the curve heading out of town and over two tracks is a good solution.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I put the road going into the tunnel/underpass again.  ...I could move the road ... any number of places.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I had also thought of having the road wind downhill into the valley between the foreground and rear tracks, but I want to use that area for a farm.  Even without the bridge, that idea will take up too much space.

I also like the idea to have a farm scene situated in the area to the left of the ruler shown in this last picture.  Would a narrow road across this area give the farm you want to model enough space?

Thank you, Jeff, Mike, Bob, John, Steve!

Jeff, Yes indeed in the single lane and hairpin turn!  I could certainly work up something like that.

Jeff, Mike, actually, I had the road humped up a bit using a section I had already cut.  I thought it was too high, so I trimmed it a bit too much.  How about it humped and skewed a bit.  I like that.

John, thank you for the excerpt from the Wilkinsburg Sun.  It is sad it has come to replacing the brick with asphalt there.  Here in Butler, the worst of the remaining brick streets aren't as bad as the potholes in the asphalt ones.   Maybe better built to start with.  Some still get a lot of traffic.  Thank you again!

Steve, you are right I didn't want to shorten the fire station's drive, but finally thought I will if I have to.  You are also right about even a one lane road leading to a farm will take away precious space.  I may just have a lane cross the tracks from the aisle and not connect to anything.  I'll have to work it out.  There is just so much I can do in a limited space.

I like it Mark!

I like the revised curve leading out of town.

@Mark Boyce posted:

.. I may just have a lane cross the tracks from the aisle (to the farm) and not connect to anything (else).

I think a driveway crossing the tracks to the farm from the aisle is a good compromise if you want the space a through road would have taken away from the farm acreage.

Here's another idea.  With the revised curved exit road idea on the table, this raises the question of the notion of also having a road going into a tunnel, which is cool IMO.  If you like this idea, maybe a second road could be added coming from the walk aisle, crossing the two lower level tracks and then heading into a tunnel somewhere around where you had it earlier or maybe a bit to the right of where it's depicted in this borrowed image (is it ok to borrow your picture for illustrating the idea?) :

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Jeff, Mike, Bob, John, Steve!

Jeff, Yes indeed in the single lane and hairpin turn!  I could certainly work up something like that.

Jeff, Mike, actually, I had the road humped up a bit using a section I had already cut.  I thought it was too high, so I trimmed it a bit too much.  How about it humped and skewed a bit.  I like that.

John, thank you for the excerpt from the Wilkinsburg Sun.  It is sad it has come to replacing the brick with asphalt there.  Here in Butler, the worst of the remaining brick streets aren't as bad as the potholes in the asphalt ones.   Maybe better built to start with.  Some still get a lot of traffic.  Thank you again!

Steve, you are right I didn't want to shorten the fire station's drive, but finally thought I will if I have to.  You are also right about even a one lane road leading to a farm will take away precious space.  I may just have a lane cross the tracks from the aisle and not connect to anything.  I'll have to work it out.  There is just so much I can do in a limited space.

Mark, Maybe I missed an earlier discussion; but in the first picture if the road turned to the left after the first track and crossed the second track where the caboose is. Would that work?

Mark, I don’t have much experience in designing streets, but I’m sure whatever you do, with the guidance from others, will look perfect. I’ll be following the progress.

Gene

So many ideas....so here we go.....

As my Colombian HVAC Foreman would say "we're gonna try something crazy here".....

Hear me out Mark. I like where the discussion is going.
First suggestion is to split this up. Have the road out of town take a slightly more gentle down slope. Then split it so that the lower road is close to the track heading up with a right turn at the end into the tunnel below the track. The road can be surrounded by retaining walls on both sides.

THEN.....the lower road could S turn from the other side of the switch (left to right) and tie into the other road going into the tunnel.

I envision the upper level road bridge over the gap being a stone arch bridge.

Just my $.02......

Bob

Thank you, Mike, Steve, Bob, Gene!

Steve, by all means borrow any of my photographs and doctor them up at will!  This is a quick mockup that is approximately what you drew, I think. 

I am going to handle the slope in front of the track rising to the left is to make it a large fill.  Most of these tunnel/underpasses I see are tunneling through two-track fills, some rather high.  That will leave a relatively flat or rolling area to the right for the farm.  It is purely by accident that I now have white on black, which does show up nicely for photographs.

Bob, it is easy to miss something for sure.  I am doing it all the time on other threads.  I think I see what you are getting at.  The road would travel in between the two tracks for a ways, which is a great idea!  I will have to set something up and take a photograph or two of that.

Gene, as with my reply to Bob I need all the input I can get.  While I have built layouts in HO and N scale, none got this far with scenery since an N scale layout, I dismantled in the mid '90s when we moved back to Western Pennsylvania from West Virginia.  The rural part of that layout was at a rather nice level of finish and I was in the process of developing a town that had buildings and streets on several levels.  As I recall, my streets were sections of shirt box cardboard cut to length and width when I discarded all of it.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike, Steve, Bob, Gene!

As I recall, my streets were sections of shirt box cardboard cut to length and width when I discarded all of it.

My roads are cereal box cardboard......been a long time since the road crew was on site.

@pennsyfan Bob, I think what you are suggesting is something like this.

@RSJB18 Bob, I am a little less sure of what you are suggesting.  Is it something like this?  Granted, it would need some revision to lessen the grade.

The cereal boxes work good.  Your road crew hasn't been around for a while.  My town crew hasn't worked on the bricks since 1905! 

@Mark Boyce posted:

@pennsyfan Bob, I think what you are suggesting is something like this.

@RSJB18 Bob, I am a little less sure of what you are suggesting.  Is it something like this?  Granted, it would need some revision to lessen the grade.

The cereal boxes work good.  Your road crew hasn't been around for a while.  My town crew hasn't worked on the bricks since 1905! 

I like the first one form @pennsyfan. It looks the easiest and gives you a route to the back of town.

Maybe something like this?

Thank you, Mike, Steve!  

Mike, I like pennsyfan Bob’s suggestion also.

Steve, now I get it!  Yes, that looks more like what I think Bob meant.  I think that is a good possibility.

@Mark Boyce posted:

@pennsyfan Bob, I think what you are suggesting is something like this.

@RSJB18 Bob, I am a little less sure of what you are suggesting.  Is it something like this?  Granted, it would need some revision to lessen the grade.

The cereal boxes work good.  Your road crew hasn't been around for a while.  My town crew hasn't worked on the bricks since 1905! 

Mark, the first picture is a great example of what I meant.