Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Here's a crude mock up Mark.

The bridge would come off the upper road with cars going under from the front edge. The rest is self explanatory I think.

Thank you, pennsyfan Bob, RSJB18 Bob, Steve!

@pennsyfan Bob, thank you for confirming I was right about what you meant.  I like your suggestion for the upper road.

@RSJB18 Bob, thank you for giving a 3D mock up of your suggestion.  I mocked up something along that lines.  One problem I have is that I want the road making the grade crossings and off the front of the layout to stay to the right of the switch points.

The far right end of the right hopper is at the end of the area for the farm scene. 

I then mocked up Steve's suggestion.

My rendition of Bob's suggestion took up about 6 more inches than how I did Steve's.  That doesn't mean I am going with Steve's.  I will have to ponder it for a while and maybe try some other things. 

What is that mess underneath the layout????  Someone should put curtains or something so it isn't so distracting!!! 

What a hobby! Now you're doing  civil engineering! That's going to be a challenging road to drive.

When you get the curtains up for your pike, you can come and do mine. I've been procrastinating about that for about 5 years. There are no boxes or anything else under the layout, but skirting does really make it look nice.

Looks great Mark!!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

What is that mess underneath the layout????  Someone should put curtains or something so it isn't so distracting!!! 

Mark, you certainly have lots of ideas from this talented group. BTW, I made a temporary curtain to cover your distraction.😉

Gene

Your Railroad your Rules Mark.

Just assisting in the creative process. I had a feeling that you didn't want to encroach on the Farm scene too much.

Whatever you decide on I'm sure will look great.

Bob

Thank you, Myles, RV Junke, Gene, Bob!

Myles, I don't know that I would call it civil engineering.  More like civil 'stumbling'.    Yes, I can think of seeing a road something like it in real life, and I'm trying to place it.  I'm glad I won't be driving that road! 

RV Junke, thank you for checking in!!

Gene, Well I'm glad someone answered my plea!  That skirting looks great!! 

Bob, If it weren't for the switch for the two yard tracks under the town dictating the grade crossing, I could squish everything closer to the town.  That would give a lot more room for either option.  I am going to let those road ideas sit awhile and see where they take me.

I did fit and cut out road sections for the upper grade crossings.  This way, the road can disappear back in the coved corner.  As to the corner, I will have to slide the dryer in the other room out from the window, then I can get in there to work on the corner.  It isn't the most convenient access hatch, but I've done it before.

the "circle around to the underpass looks more like a Turnpike exit or a setting from "The Italian Job" than Appalachian coal fields. I'd think even an exaggerated  "Rialto St" would look more at home.

Don't be afraid to really skew RR crossings. A lot more common in the region. Even ones that were made perpendicular, do so by having bends right up to the track edge.

Thank you, Greg!  Your mentions of  a Turnpike exit, "The Italian Job", and "Rialto St" are not lost on me.  It's funny that I finally realized that the place I was thinking of wasn't in the boonies, but at Millvale.  For the uninitiated, Rialto Street is a very steep street on Pittsburgh's North Side.

Yes, if we eliminate the monster steps of Rialto Street, here is a mockup.  I think something like this would be more like Appalachia.  Much easier to build as well.

The stop sign at the bottom of the hill reminds me of South Main Street here in Butler, which by the way is still Brick.  I am standing a few feet from the stop sign and a barricade at the other side of the T.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Greg!  Your mentions of  a Turnpike exit, "The Italian Job", and "Rialto St" are not lost on me.  It's funny that I finally realized that the place I was thinking of wasn't in the boonies, but at Millvale.  For the uninitiated, Rialto Street is a very steep street on Pittsburgh's North Side.

Yes, if we eliminate the monster steps of Rialto Street, here is a mockup.  I think something like this would be more like Appalachia.  Much easier to build as well.

The stop sign at the bottom of the hill reminds me of South Main Street here in Butler, which by the way is still Brick.  I am standing a few feet from the stop sign and a barricade at the other side of the T.

Mark, what is the vertical height there? Judging by the rolling stock above, I'm estimating 30" in length.

I always wanted a road between my levels but thought it was too steep. Now I have the El to contend with. The vertical measurement is 13" .

And to think Rialto isn't even the Steepest in Pittsburgh, that goes to Canton Ave.

Personally, as I have probably mentioned on OGR before, my favorite steep street is Center Street in Duquesne, PA.

https://preview.redd.it/center...655892f0d4ea3b43d871

I guess the one problem with modelling all these with respect to their location on your layout is that they are residential streets. As steep and as twisty as roads in and out of Appalachian towns could be, they still were meant to be passable by heavy tonnage trucks.

Thank you, Bob, Greg, Richie!

Bob, the height is a shade over 7 inches.  The length of the slope is only 18 inches.  Yes, your El does add a wrench in the works!  Your scenes do have a lot of detail as they are!

Greg, yes Canton Avenue is steeper, but I think Rialto is a longer slope.  Center Street in Duquesne is steep as well.  I have never driven any of them myself.  You are right that steep rural roads usually have twists and turns.  The section of board I used has a slight turn near the bottom.  I’ll want it to turn more when I actually build it.

Mark,

I may be a little late to this talk about the roads , but I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish by connecting the two roads. An extremely steep street would be something more in line with Lombard street in San Francisco. Otherwise it looks like you introducing a helper grade for automobile traffic.

I'm thinking of 2 alternatives.

1. Treat the upper and lower streets as separate scenes. Put up a guardrail fence along the upper road to prevent wipe outs.

2. If you want to connect them then make the incline as long as possible.  Try to make it more realistic and believable.

Remember it's your Railroad,  this is just a suggestion.

Good point Bill.

I go back to my earlier idea Mark. Make the upper level road a dead end, or split the differene with the left turn out of town that has been discussed recently.

Bob

Thank you, Bill, Bob!

You know, I started on this rabbit trail when I wanted to try to use the River Leaf bridge.  Once I realized it wouldn’t work out well…

My original thought had been to take the street out where the fire house front is, make a grade crossing and take it somewhere between the tracks and sort of like Bob pennsyfan suggested.  I was working out Bill’s suggestion when I got called to go to Kim’s mom’s house for another wild goose chase.

As it is, I was contemplating if I want to change the bricks in front of the fire house and where to start asphalt.  I’ll let that thought  sit overnight.

Thank you both for bringing me around.  No wonder they pushed me out the door with an early retirement!  🙄 😄

Rabbit trails are a major component of this hobby; as we all can attest.
With regards to the fire house I see your predicament. Given the unusual angle you have I would suggest finishing the area with the red brick all the way across and alongside the fire house.Perhaps a white or yellow line of demarcation. Another possibility would be to make it look like concrete; or the asphalt. Or, can you swap out structures?

Jay

Mark, more bricks! more bricks!  You do such a nice job with them, and they look better than concrete or asphalt (IMO).  Just keep doing mock-ups. Something will catch your fancy.  Have not heard from the roller guy about the 9 inch roller as yet, maybe soon.

Thank you, Jay, Jeff!

Jay, I was once again looking over the area to see if there is a better position for the firehouse.  I tried it more in the center of town before, but it doesn't look appropriate there.  The edge of town seems better.  I had it angled facing the curve more, but it crossed over the joint between the lift up and the solid table.  I had planned to attach the buildings to the lift up, but still make them easily removable.  I think I will try putting the firehouse at the angle again and just remove it on the rare occasions that I need to open the lift up.  Brick or concrete may be the answer for around it.

Jeff, I think you are right about brick, possibly right to the grade crossing.  From there I could make the road either asphalt or concrete.  Thinking back to childhood in the '60s, a lot of roads around here were improved and straightened using concrete.  Now they have asphalt over them, but the cracks at the underlying expansion joints give away what was underneath.  Although, the twisty road in front of daughter Heidi's house leads out of town and is brick for a ways.  I hope the guy that makes the rollers gets back to you soon.

This isn’t too bad.

That works very nicely Mark.