Blackwater Canyon Line - March 20, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

JD,  Thank you for the copy of Ace's plan.  I miss Ace.   Looking at Dave's rendition a few hours later, I see a lot of similarities.  We have considered the idea of staging/holding yards underneath, and I am going to pass on that idea.  I think I would rather pull cars and engines off the shelf or build roll out/slide out shelves or drawers as John suggested a few months ago.  Thank you.

William and Rich, You raise a good point as we all acknowledge no matter how much thinking and planning we do, we will make changes, perhaps major changes, once we get at it.  One thing I can say is that I have never been comfortable with the pop up access holes.  That said, the latest plan before yesterday needs revamped before moving forward.  As an aside over the summer and fall, I didn't have time to start construction anyway.  I do plan to start right after the first of the year.  Thank you very much for your 'prodding'.  

John, At lunch time today I was fiddling with the latest plan Dave posted yesterday, trying again to give the turntable idea a fair shot.  What I see is that a turntable and a holding track for an engine takes up 1/3 of 2 of my 3 walls. I even put the turntables one in the corner, and the other next to the small door, and folded the engine tracks back but that cuts in on the sidings where he thinks I'm going to build trains.  I want to put in some buildings, so I don't want to fill the space with track.  While the balloon loops do extend pretty far from the walls, I think we can adjust everything to have pretty good access.  Even if I had a whole basement to work with and ran point to point, I would always provide some kind of continuous running.  Yes, I could get my continuous running fix in the next room on my Ceiling Central RR.  I spent too many years crawling on the floor and squeezing into electronic equipment cabinets and frames, that my knees bark back at me at the slightest hint of getting on the floor.  I also have trouble straightening back up.  I am afraid it will not get better, and will only get worse. 

Dave sent me an e-mail a while ago with a possible change to the plan he posted yesterday.  He did that to see if he was on a track I liked before developing it further.  I think it is a pretty good plan to get me going.

I do honestly appreciate everyone's comments, and thought them all over again since yesterday.  Thank you so much!!

Dave,

Both of those ideas have merit.  No the grades aren't too steep.  The real Blackwater grade was 3.4% I believe, and I tested all my engines pulling about 6 cars up 6% I believe it was with no trouble.  It's back there on page 3 or 4 or 5 or somewhere.  (William and Rich may be on to something there)   Ah, who cares; I'm having fun!

Back to the plans.  The passing siding with the 'extension' for lack of a better word, looks like something one may see on a tight mountain railroad.  The real Blackwater had a turnout partway down at Lime Rock, but not a passing siding. I printed them both off.  Call me a relic, call me what you will; I can 'see' things better on paper than the computer screen.  

Here is what the yard at Thomas looked like once upon a time.  We were there in August, and it is just a grassy area with the bike trail running through it like it was back in '95 or '96 the last time we were there.

Here is the switch at Lime Rock, partway down the grade.  

I'm looking for that photograph I sent Dave I scanned from a magazine of a large model railroad of two lines hugging a mountain slope, the lower one being at least two tracks.  I must have saved it elsewhere on my cloud drive.  Anyway, that would be the view looking through the big window connecting the laundry with the train room.  That vantage point is at the bottom of the drawings.  Anyway, when I find it, I'll post it, because it is pretty cool.

Her'e that view into the train room from the laundry I mentioned in the last post.  The mountainside with the yard or passing track is on the left where the work table is right now.  Pretty cool I think.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Mark, here are a couple of alternate configurations. The 1st has a slight change to the passing siding to let you run longer trains and still be able to pass. The 2nd swaps the passing siding for a small storage yard and increases the elevation to 6". The grades for both might be too high, but I didn't know how small of a grade you were wiling to accept. 

Dave,

I think this one is the one with another storage track at each end.  The yard with the coal hoppers is at the top of the drawing (yellow), the siding is in the middle (the green passing track), and another track at the lower (blue) end.  Yes, I may lay it out on the floor after Thanksgiving.  Thank you.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

Here's a version using all Ross switches. There are 4 cut pieces (labeled) in this version, but that will change as you build. Right now the tracks along the top/bottom are too close to the wall, so adjustments will need to be made along the left grade and both parts of the passing siding.

I'm still not happy with the siding in the upper right because the Ross O42 switch footprint is so much different than the GarGraves O42 switch, but that's something you can decide. That siding is also in the opposite direction from the others, so it will be harder to service unless you run a train in the opposite direction to service it. There also isn't room for 2 buildings, so I'm not sure I wouldn't have just 1 longer siding vs the 2 shorter sidings. I'd also be inclined to delete the curve in the siding in the lower right to get rid of the small S curve there and give a little more separation for buildings.

Dave,

I see what you mean on all counts.  Yes, I was aware that as drawn the top and bottom are too close to the walls, but figured that no plan is an etched in stone affair, and some pieces will need cut and trimmed to make it all fit.  As to the switches, I have some Ross and some GarGraves on hand, so I will try to fit sidings accordingly.  What I planned for the siding on the extreme upper right is that it would be an engine track (I may try to fit a small 1 stall engine house there) where the engine would pull in front facing the corner, then when it backs out through the switch and comes around to couple onto the cars in the 2-track yellow yard, all would be in order.  (I'm just calling the locations by color now, since it is easier for everyone to understand.  I have names for all these places in my mind that will be marked on the fascia when the layout is built that far.)

I hadn't thought much about the S-curve on the blue yard tracks, but you are absolutely right.  At low speeds it may not matter, but there may be that one or two ornery car that isn't quite as well suspended on it's trucks that could possibly derail.  The tracks forming a wye configuration will work because the intent there is for a couple unrelated industries, whereas the yard tracks in yellow are intended to be like the coal marshaling photographs in yesterday's post.  That all works out swell.

I may or may not put in both spurs on the green passing track, but I like the idea of one.  Of course the scenery will be such that the proximity to the yellow and blue loops will be at different elevations and camouflaged in such a way that they won't seem to be in the same scene.  I like that ...daz4.scarm plan a lot.

On to another note.  I have been seriously considering mounting the table tops to brackets fastened to the studs in the walls.  Then I would have legs supporting the two loops that stick out into the room.  I realized after I took down the shelving our daughter had installed on the walls, that it wasn't a big deal to patch the holes before repainting.  I can hardly tell myself where the holes were.  I even found steel brackets at Home Depot that reach out 20" from the wall and the claim is they will hold 1000 pounds at less than $10 each.  The reviews are amazing as to what people have stored on the shelves and what expensive items they have put under the shelves without fear of anything breaking.  I am going to buy two brackets this weekend, mount them somewhere and 'load them up' as a test.  I also have to finish tearing apart the 'mighty' workbench at my mother-in-law's and bring pieces over to my house.  I can even unbolt it and I have double supporting legs for the two loops already pre-fab, so to speak!!  Also remember, the workbench has two 12' long sheets of Homasote on it, I am going to cut into more manageable sizes to get over to our house.  I think I can build this thing at a really discounted price, with a lot of the heavy carpentry eliminated or pre-fab.

That all sounds good, Mark. I had forgotten what track you already have and was too lazy to look back through the thread. Like you said, those details aren't so important because adjustments will have to be made as you build. I did want to show you the difference though.

There are other S curves in the passing siding. Those can be minimized by substituting Ross #11 switches, but I didn't like how it looked, so I didn't include a photo.

I don't like legs, so that has always been my problem with the Mianne bench work. I have little doubt you can support the layout with the brackets you described. Good luck with the test.

I added the additional extension to the passing track mostly because I misread your earlier comment. However, after I added it, my thought now is to be able to pull all the way in on one extension, then back all the way into the other extension and be ready to pull out without clogging the main. Without the 2nd extension, you have to back far enough past the switch blocking the main so you can pull out. Just food for thought.

Train pulled in:

Train getting ready to pull out w/o using upper extension blocking main:

Train getting ready to pull out using upper extension w/o blocking main:

Dave,

You are right you did misread, but after looking at the plan, I started thinking the extra tracks may crowd too much.  No problem, I can put them in or not.

Yes, I see how the train could work in that siding.  Thank you.  Looks good!

Mark, finally getting back to your thread. Your patience in designing is noteworthy as well as the advice from other critical thinkers.  Dave's comments are well thought out. Can't wait for your construction to start.

Almost a year.....screw any wood together yet ?...That's what I find frustrating about this hobby...dream of the ultimate configuration....and the next week,another idea pops up...it's a viscous cycle,we torture ourselves with...lol

Pennsynut and Nessmuck, thank you for your comments.  

Well yes patience out of necessity may have led to analysis paralysis too.  Ha ha!  I wanted to get started building mid year, but health problems for both my parents, hospital stays, care giving, and finally personal care home consumed a lot of time this year.  That on top of helping my wife's mother and my aunt, then upkeep of Dad's house and grounds and this year has flown by.

So was the delay in starting construction good or bad.  You saw I rethought the plan I "finalized " last spring, to another eliminating the need for access hatches on the right wall.  Which plan is the best for me?  

Nessmuck, This past weekend, I did some measuring of the workbench at my mother-in-law's that i am going to take apart and use for parts of my layout.  I have decided to start with the section at the bottom of the plan that is basically the same on both plans. I plan to start right after Christmas with that.  At that point, I will start a topic in the 3-rail section of the Forum since the planning will be done.  Then it will be changes as I build.

 Thank you for your patience, I know my patience is getting tried as well!  LOL

Mark Boyce posted:

Pennsynut and Nessmuck, thank you for your comments.  

Well yes patience out of necessity may have led to analysis paralysis too.  Ha ha!  I wanted to get started building mid year, but health problems for both my parents, hospital stays, care giving, and finally personal care home consumed a lot of time this year.  That on top of helping my wife's mother and my aunt, then upkeep of Dad's house and grounds and this year has flown by.

So was the delay in starting construction good or bad.  You saw I rethought the plan I "finalized " last spring, to another eliminating the need for access hatches on the right wall.  Which plan is the best for me?  

Nessmuck, This past weekend, I did some measuring of the workbench at my mother-in-law's that i am going to take apart and use for parts of my layout.  I have decided to start with the section at the bottom of the plan that is basically the same on both plans. I plan to start right after Christmas with that.  At that point, I will start a topic in the 3-rail section of the Forum since the planning will be done.  Then it will be changes as I build.

 Thank you for your patience, I know my patience is getting tried as well!  LOL

Almost there Mark. Can't wait to see the start of construction.

Bob

Thank you, Bob!!  Me too!  :-)

Hi Mark,

No one will ever fault you for doing God's work in caring for aging parents and relatives! Many of us have been there and the difference in importance between family and just a hobby becomes very clear.

You will likely find that no matter how much you think, design and redesign that your eventual layout will have some compromises that will irk you. My only suggestion is to list your priorities and go with the design that covers the most important ones. 

We all wrestle with space issues, room conformation, features we want to squeeze in, etc. Compromises result. My priority was a layout than "runs" well. But, there are regrets afterward. However, all things considered, I'm lucky to have a nice layout at this point in my life. Now if I would only finish the scenery....

Good luck with your planning, and I look forward to your construction and completed layout photos.

Fred

Yup....life can get in the way...it will be 2 years since my wife and I got our lives back from caring for her father....and all the sibling fighting is ovah....until the next shoe drops...lol..look forward to your progress.

Thank you Fred and Nessmuck!!!

I have been waiting a long time for a room to become available.  Finally our last daughter married and moved out.  I actually gained an empty room.  

You are right about issues that will pop up building the layout.  At least this will be the first that is actually drawn out with some level off accuracy for a starting point.

I can't thank Dave enough for helping me on this!!

Mark,

   Go for it and have fun building, enjoy your new Train Room!

Merry Christmas buddy.

PCRR/Dave

Hi Mark

   All the plans contributed look awesome. I would start the benchwork and start playin around with the track.

Thats what did....lol. I sent a variation of similar plans but using grades

Al

Mark, I saw your post in another thread about your concern for building locations, specifically the Menard's Power building. I found 2 such buildings on the Menard's site, the largest being 9"x17". So, I decided to use it as a template and added several around the layout so you could see where buildings of a similar or smaller footprint might fit. It's just something to help you visualize spacing not to make any decisions.

Al, Thank you!  I commented on the plan in the email.  

Dave,  Thank you for looking at where the power station could fit.  For me, I thought I would like to place it at the upper level town because the real power station I once worked at is located a few miles north of Thomas and Davis along the top of Allegheny Mountain.  I'm thinking the location in the middle near the small window would work since I'm hoping to fit a small engine house over the siding in the corner.

I guess this is the first I mentioned that I worked at the power station here.  I wrote extensively about it on Trainman2001's "Continuing Saga..." topic when he was building his power substation a couple years ago.  

One plus on the Menards station is that it has a pull through track bay, which the real Mount Storm Power Station has, so it saves space.  

Thank you, Dave.

You're welcome, Mark. I'm sure you'll make adjustments as you build, but I wanted to give you some idea of the space you'll have, depending on how closely you follow the design. Building/accessory placement is always difficult for me to envision and I envy those who can "see" it.

Not doing the multilevel plan?  Kind of a  bummer.  This one is a piece of cake.  Buy all the curves, switches and long straights, start at the crossover section in the middle and go from there.  Lay it out on the floor on red rosin paper to get your actual benchwork dimensions and start making sawdust.  No reason trains couldn't be running in ..... days.  Power drops, switch wiring and tweaking to follow, BUT, get running trains!  

Laying out and framing, four days, track down and simple wiring done one day.  Running trains end of fifth day.  Having fun, more to follow.  Cheers.

Dave, Yes, I have trouble envisioning building placement and how much room they will take also.  Then you think it will fit and overhang from the longest car or cab roof hits the corner of a building roof, and the building doesn't fit.  That's why many folks make cardboard mockups then build to suit the location.  Well, I have a bunch of buildings I want to use.  Cart before the horse.  

William, For one, as my arthritis, both rheumatoid ans osteo gives me more trouble, I just don't want to fool with access hatches.  Second, the serpentine down the mountain doesn't resonate with the Blackwater Canyon where the grade doesn't double back.  I was having trouble envisioning a couple of scenic areas I mentioned months ago.  That said, the steps you outlined are good, and the plan is to start building on the end at the bottom of the drawings in January.  Please stay tuned!  

I always appreciate your encouragement!  

It's still a multi-level design with a 5" rise, it just doesn't snake around like the original design did in order to avoid the need for access hatches.

Thank you Dave for pointing out it is still multi-level.  I was going to make that comment in reply to William's comment, then forgot by the time I finished typing.  

What is that they say about short term memory???

I don't know, I forgot.

Is there any possibility of tunneling through one or two of the walls to gain additional ROW?

A staging siding / display shelf in an adjacent area.

Any thought for an elevated unconnected RDC/trolley/Wild Goose loop?

Subway?

Mark:  

All the new Menard's buildings are super nice!  Just keep in mind that if you put them in front of your track they become quite an obstacle.  Be sure you can pick them up when needed or have a way to reach-around.  :-)

Tom, This room is an addition on the back of the basement level of a brick house.  It has a sun room above it on the first floor.  Three walls are exterior walls, and the fourth wall at the bottom of the diagrams is cement block and brick.  We discussed the idea of going through the open window (which was the exterior of the original house) which leads to the laundry (right over the washer and dryer), but the laundry is very narrow, and there isn't enough room to put even a staging yard.

I do have the Ceiling Central RR looping around the family room that is right outside the door adjacent to the laundry room.  I have 054 curves on it.  Others have suggested running a connection through the door to an overhead line in the room in question.  That could be done, but I'm not thinking of it right now.

I don't want to fool with a subway, a lot of it under the main table top, but a higher short unconnected logging line could be done.  

Thank you for all the ideas.

John,

I am planning to make all buildings removable this go round.  I fastened a lot of buildings down to the scenery on my last layout, and wished I hadn't, even for just when I wanted to remove them to make changes.  It was a mess and some were damaged.  So no matter whether the building is in the front, or even a building flat against the backdrop.

Thank you for all the warning tips you give modelers.  Sometimes they don't apply in some cases, they are all valuable.  And this one is definitely a tip I would advise for everyone too!

It is past time for an update here.  I did get started with construction this month.  First I tore out an old 10 x 4 workbench at my mother-in-law's basement, and brought all the parts over here.  Here is an inventory of the major parts.

2 rolling ends on casters that I left intact, built of 2 x 4s with 1/4" plywood as sides

4 10x1 x 8’ boards to be ripped into 1x4s and 1x3s

4 8x1 x 3’ boards

2 10x4 sheets of ½” Homasote

1 8x3 sheet of Masonite – no holes

2 2x4 x 10’

2 2x4 x 3’

1 8x3 sheet of ¼” plywood

I built a rolling base of the two sides, replacing the casters with new locking 3" casters.  The purpose of making it rolling is that I will make it removable from the long narrower shelf so I can swing it out and get behind it for access.  No need for pop up access now.

As you can see Unfortunately, it is not as high as I want to be able to look through the window onto the layout height from the laundry room.  The window sill is 45" above the floor.  I debated whether to make the roll around base higher, but decided to put in joists running parallel to the brick wall, and then put in perpendicular stringers.  On the other side where I will have to build the whole thing from scratch, I will make the rolling base higher.

Anyway, here is the whole support with sections of particle board I salvaged from an old book case just laying uncut on top to get an idea of what it will look like.

The blue tape on the floor is roughly where the edges of the layout will fall.  I know this isn't pretty, but I am a below average carpenter, using free wood, and once it is painted, track and scenery is on top, and a facia and covering to the floor is installed, no one will know the difference.  What matters to me is that it is level, solid, but rolls freely when I unlock the four casters.  

I'll post more what I was going to write later.  I just got a call to go see my aunt in the personal care home.

I didn't do much, but I did lay some track down on the tabletop to see about cutting the rest of the table top wood.  It will work out nicely!

Wow looks great, Mark! Will your diorama in the back get to be part of the layout?

Baby steps, Mark, baby steps!

George

Thank you, George!  Thank you, JD!!

I am not intending the diorama to be part of the layout.  I want to be able to carry it easily out the door to the adjacent patio for daylight photography.  Also, I’m trying some scenic effects since I haven’t built scenery for many years.  I have the diorama resting on the first two wall brackets for the layout.  I decided to build the layout higher so someone can look through the window from the laundry onto the layout easier.  I will raise the brackets about 6 inches to match this part of the layout.

The diorama is a neat idea. I might do something similar to refine my scenery skills before I tackle the entire layout. It's amazing how realistic model RR pictures can be with natural light. 

I think raising the layout is a good move too. Doing the laundry won't seem like a chore anymore looking out into the Blackwater Canyon!

It looking good Mark! I like the height change for the view! You will be able to do laundry and watch trains at the same time!

Mrs. B: "Mark, how many loads of laundry are you going to do today?"

Mark: "I'm almost finished with the Smith's, then I'll start in on the Peterson's next.  Do any of our other neighbors need their laundry done?  I might need to be down here all day."

Thank you Mike and JD!!  Yes it is convenient for doing laundry!!   I had a load in the washer and one in the dryer when I was laying out the track and shot the photograph yesterday!    You may not have seen this before, but my mother-in-law lives just down the road withing walking distance for her.  I had better watch it, since I got all that wood from her basement, she may say I forgot to take the wash!!  

Getting closer on your project. Can't wait for more photos.

Hey Mark!  Remember - No tickee, no laundry! 

Yesterday I cut the pieces to fit and screwed them down to the stringers.  Then I laid the track out again, and marked the tabletop for where the Homasote will go.  It was certainly easy to roll the unit away from the wall 15 inches or so to get in there!  Worked great.

That may be the shiniest train table top I have seen!  That keeps eyes focused there so as not to see the ugly base.  

On this end, I am going to cut out the board to have the Shavers Fork of the Cheat River flowing underneath this bridge.  It is similar to the real one in Parsons, West Virginia that is now used for a bike/hike trail.  Oh, that is one of my two MTH Premier H9 Consolidations sitting on the track for fun.  I just received this one yesterday from a Forum member.  It is a PS-2 with 3-volt board.  My other one is a PS3 #839.

Mark, Great Work !

Mark what kind of bridges are you going to put there?

Leandro,  Thank you!!

Mike, I have this Menards single track truss bridge for the rear crossing.  It reminds me of the Shavers Fork crossing in Parsons WV that I shot last year.

The front bridge will be a girder bridge so it is easy to see over it since it is in the front.  This is the other bridge in Parsons.  Mine of course will be shorter.

Nice Mark, great plan! I like the sound of where this is going!

Thank you, Mike.  This idea has been in the works for 20 years, but I never had time or space to do it when the girls were growing up.

Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike.  This idea has been in the works for 20 years, but I never had time or space to do it when the girls were growing up.

 

Well now that you have the time and space! Make the best of it and enjoy the ride along the way!

                    here you go Mark... how 'bout taking a hike along your river...

                           looking towards your back bridge over the river...

                     walking along the shallow river coming out from the back hills...

                              water getting deeper it goes under the front bridge...

                                water picking up speed now... flowing pretty good...

                                     then dumping over waterfalls at the front...

                    can't wait to see trains running thru this awesome scenery...

Thank you Brian!!  That is it exactly!  I'll print them out and stand them up on the layout.  Project done!!!  

I was going to start cutting my Homasote for my roadbed, but it is extremely windy today, so I started working on the shelf part of my layout instead.  I had to move the 18" metal wall brackets up 4 inches to get a match for the height of the roll around.  Then I put stringers on the two I did and a fascia board on matched to the roll around.  I could clamp the roll around to the stationary part, but it is fine for now with the brakes set.  I think it is going to work pretty slick.  Here are two photographs.  My carpentry skills aren't very pretty nor is my used wood, but it all seems solid enough.  I still need to put an 8 inch section between the wall and the tabletop, but that material is out in my shed, and I was afraid I may blow away.  I thought the dog may fly like a kite at the end of her cable when I put her out.  LOL

          looking good Mark !    trains will be rolling soon !

Thank you, Brian!!  Whoo Hoo!!

Somehow I knew you were going to beat me. I've had some medical setbacks, but we've decided not to drive to Alaska this year, so I think I'll be able to start as soon as we get back from Georgia next month. Who knows? Maybe we'll both have trains running by Christmas. Keep up the good work, progressis the name of the game.

Wow Dave, Drive to Alaska!!  I would love to if I had a whole summer to do it.  I looked up, and it's 3600 miles for you to Anchorage.  Then I decided Juneau would be closer, which it is, 3000!  Are you driving or flying to Georgia?

I'm sorry about the medical problems.  I hope you are getting along better!!

Yes, I hope to have trains running by Christmas.  Not that I am saying all the track will be laid, but enough laid, wired, and checked out that I can have some fun with it.

Thank you!!!

Medical issues seem to have been resolved, so maybe I'll have better luck this year. I;ll send you an email about the rest so we don't mess up your thread.

Mark, Juneau might be closer, but you can't get there by car, unless it floats or flies. Your progress is lookin' good. Over 75% of my benchwork is lumber from shipping crates and other projects at the farm, so used is good. I have had my 215lbs. on it many times, and it is all 1" lumber except for the legs, and that's only because I had plenty of used 2x4s so I didn't have to rip them. Keep postin'.

John,

Yes, thinking back on my geography now, you have a point about Juneau.  However, Barney Google thinks you can drive there from Arizona, so it MUST BE SO.   I would say the closest I have been to Alaska would be central Illinois!!  

Thank you very much for the compliment and reporting your success with used lumber!!!  Reading posts about people buying birch plywood, and clear pine from some contractor only lumber supplier sometimes makes me wonder how mine will make out.    Your comment makes me feel better! 

The current plan is to drive to Skagway and take the car ferry over to Juneau. In Google Maps you have to set it to avoid the ferry or it will look like you can drive. Google Maps defaults to using a ferry if there is one. Prince Rupert is actually the closest, but the ferry from there to Juneau costs a LOT more.

Dave, That does make a lot of sense Dave!!  Thank you!  I would like to go there someday!

I did some cleaning up and some experimenting with the backdrops I bought from George (G3750) last year.  The town on this side is at the bottom of the canyon, so I want a lot of mountain showing.  Track height will be 44".

Then there will be a climb of 5" to 49" on the other end of the room.  That town will be at the top of the mountain, so I will have mostly sky.  49" comes to less than an inch below the window sill.  In such a small room, I don't know how well I'll pull it off depicting a climb from the valley to the mountain top, but we will see how it goes.  Since there won't be any backdrop at the big window except some sky above it, I think I will have the top of the mountain on the backdrop a little lower to try to help this.

I love what's happening, Mark!

Peter

Nice Mark, sounds like you have it all figured out! 

         that's going to look nice Mark !!

Looking good Mark.

Alaska is on my bucket list. A former coworker did a cruise up the west coast to see Alaska several years back. He said the highlight was a train trip up to Denali National Park.

Bob

Mark,

Looks like you really have something special going here.  Keep it up! 

George

Jealous of your big room ! 

We have a 9x9 room to expand into ...

we started with this , year 2000 27”x36” Thomas playset , “Micro layout” and will , eventually , expand outward ...  

Id love to expand into full scale cars and bigger steam , for now , it’ll be  027  sized cars , pulled by027 sized.  1656  , 2026 and 2025 steamers , a 6220 Diesel switcher ...and Thomas , of course 

Peter, Thank you!! 

Mike, Well I "think" I have it figured out.  But I think we all make some alterations as we go along!!  

Brian, Thank you!  I thinks it will look good too!

Bob, Thank you!!  Yes, that Inside Passage is the only "cruise" I have seen advertised that I think I would like.  The train trip to Denali would be a highlight for sure!!  

George, Thank you!!  And thank you for the backdrops again!  I have looked over the sections and think I have a good plan how they will work out.  I'll be able to match up the sky colors with my artist daughter's assistance.  She will help me select the right colors from her massive "collection" even though scenery is not her thing.    

Dprasse, I certainly understand!  This is the most space I have ever had for trains since I bought my first set in the late '60s.  The adult kids have married and left home.  9 x 9 can be a challenge for O gauge.  We have a Lionel Thomas, and some younger child train sets my wife has picked up at thrift stores, just in case we have any grand children.

          your background with river added for your bridge...

                                                                a little more work for your daughter...

Very nice, Brian!  Yes, a little more work for my daughter!!

          another nice scenery shot for your lower front bridge...

                                              imagine your 0-8-0 pulling cars across the bridge...

Brian, Wow, yes I can imagine that!!  Great idea!  Thank you!

Great to see you making progress, Mark. Looking forward to seeing your layout take shape. 

Pat,  Thank you so much!!

As an added note, I bought the rest of the 18” metal brackets at Lowe’s today.  I hope to get them installed soon.

Today I installed the 6 remaining brackets on the wall that will hold the stationary shelf part of my layout.

I decided to break down and buy two 1x4s to cut up for the stringers.  That is the first wood I have purchased for this project.  Here they are attached and waiting for something to be mounted on top.

Here are the table top boards all cut and mounted.  It's a good thing they will be covered with Homasote, track, and scenery!  

I also measured and trimmed two sections of backdrop I got from George (G3750) last spring, just about this time of year, now that I think of it.  The sections are just sort of propped up there to get an idea of how it will look.  Once I have them mounted on supports, I think they will look great!  Thanks again George!!  

That is very sharp lookin' Mark 

Adriatic posted:

That is very sharp lookin' Mark 

Thank you very much!!

Handsome work there Mark. Looks great! 

I like that you're recycling so much of the decking and I like the use of shelf supports to minimize the need for legs.

Thank you JD and Dave!!!

I like the shelf brackets too... my layout is still in the Dream phase....at least I can watch yours.

Nice work, Mark. The backdrops look great. Steady and sure wins the race. Your making great progress.

Nessmuck, Thank you.  I'm glad you can join in here.  Mine was certainly in the dream phase for a long, long time.  I can understand where you are coming from!

Pat, Thank you!  I thought those backdrops would work well.  Yes, we just have to take it a piece at a time.

Looks great Mark.

Bob

RSJB18 posted:

Looks great Mark.

Bob

Thank you, Bob!

Wow I had not checked in for a while--great progress and it is looking great too.  Nice artwork on the backdrops.

Dave--sorry to hear you will not make your Alaska trip this year.  This past summer I drove down to take my daughter to graduate School in Colorado, and the summer before that I drove down to take my son to graduate school in Montanna--I still want to do the drive once leisurely with my wife.

ORIND, I'm pretty bummed too, but I think it's the best option for us at the moment. If things change health-wise, we may go back to the original plan, but I'm not holding out much hope. However, I also don't rule out a military hop out of Travis to Elmendorf at some point. We'll just have to see how things go.

Mark,

It looks like you are making great progress.  Check your e-mail.

George

Orin, thank you for checking in and seeing what’s going on.

Dave, I hope you feel up to par wherever you travel to.

George, Thank you.  I saw the email.  I’ll reply there!  Thanks!

Mark, sorry I am a day late! But great progress! Things are coming right along. Sorry you had to buy some wood for a new train layout! LOL I bet you find a lot more at your dads place! Good luck on more free wood and keep up the great work!

Thank you Mike!  Yes I hate to have to buy superfluous stuff like wood and wire for a layout!  LOL. I have two free sheets of plywood on the way from another source as well.  Another O gauger is making a contribution.  LOL

Very nice, Mark!!

Thank you, Joe!

Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Mike!  Yes I hate to have to buy superfluous stuff like wood and wire for a layout!  LOL. I have two free sheets of plywood on the way from another source as well.  Another O gauger is making a contribution.  LOL

A Stone Soup Layout!

Well, at least stone soup benchwork so far.

Really appreciate your use of scrounged / recycled materials.  Way too much stuff ends up in dumpsters.

Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Mike!  Yes I hate to have to buy superfluous stuff like wood and wire for a layout!  LOL. I have two free sheets of plywood on the way from another source as well.  Another O gauger is making a contribution.  LOL

I'm with you Mark! Free is good, the 4" X 10" x8' beams were given to me by a good friend! Saved me about $125. But like you I know I am going to have to pay out the money for wire and other stuff down the road! LOL

John, Mallard, Mike, Thank you.  I appreciate each of you identifying with me on this!!

Mike, That's great that a friend could save you $125!  It is all better than nothing.

I live on stone soup. That progresso-ive stuff looks good, but is kinda bland 

Well I got some time yesterday to work a little more on the layout.  I cut the Homasote to size for the roll-out turn-back loop.  This town will be relatively flat, so since I have plenty, I just covered the whole thing with Homasote.

I also cut part of the tabletop out for the Cheat River crossings.  I left the table uncut where the two bridges will go for now.  I'll cut it completely for the truss bridge in the rear.  I may leave the wood intact for the girder bridge in the front.

Over on the "What did you do on your layout today?" topic, Mike G. asked, "what's next?"  Here is my reply:

I am going to put the track back down temporarily and mark the center-lines, then remove it and lay down O gauge cut and beveled cork for the raised roadbed look.  The two yard tracks in town will be tapered down to rest right on the Homasote.  Then I can start laying track in that area.  By that time, I'll be cleaning up leaves, mowing my yard and my dad's large yard, so work on the layout will be slower, but I'll have enough started I can work on it an hour or so when I get the chance.

Mark, Looks good as I have said! Remember just like me slow is better then nothing!

Mark Boyce posted:

Well I got some time yesterday to work a little more on the layout.  I cut the Homasote to size for the roll-out turn-back loop.  This town will be relatively flat, so since I have plenty, I just covered the whole thing with Homasote.

I also cut part of the tabletop out for the Cheat River crossings.  I left the table uncut where the two bridges will go for now.  I'll cut it completely for the truss bridge in the rear.  I may leave the wood intact for the girder bridge in the front.

Over on the "What did you do on your layout today?" topic, Mike G. asked, "what's next?"  Here is my reply:

I am going to put the track back down temporarily and mark the center-lines, then remove it and lay down O gauge cut and beveled cork for the raised roadbed look.  The two yard tracks in town will be tapered down to rest right on the Homasote.  Then I can start laying track in that area.  By that time, I'll be cleaning up leaves, mowing my yard and my dad's large yard, so work on the layout will be slower, but I'll have enough started I can work on it an hour or so when I get the chance.

                         getting there Mark...     looking good...

Nice touch Brian!

That's looking good, Mark.

George

Thank you, Mike, Brian, George!!

Brian, that water is rushing so fast, it's going to knock that tree over!!  

Nice BL2 #82!!

I glued and tacked down the cork on this first section of the layout.  The track is just lying on top of the cork to make sure I got it right before the glue dries.  I couldn't resist borrowing the old ZW from the Ceiling Central RR and the closest engine available for a first test run.

That is awesome Mark. Can't wait to get back to Phoenix and start on my benchwork.

Had to add an official congrats on  your thread too Mark!

Bob

Way to go Mark!!

Running a locomotive over that first piece of track, however short, is always a great achievement.  Congratulations!!!!

George

George, Dave, Bob, JD, Thank you very much!!!!

Great progress so far. To paraphrase: "One small step for Mark one giant leap for the Blackwater Canyon Line". 

Pat Kn posted:

Great progress so far. To paraphrase: "One small step for Mark one giant leap for the Blackwater Canyon Line". 

Thank you Pat!!  That is a good one!!

Mark good progress.

Looks good Mark! your almost there, just a few more straight sections and some more curves and BAM your done! Keep up the great slow work, remember slow is good very good!

Thank you Rich and Mike!!!

Over this weekend I did get a bit done.  I pulled out the tacks I used to secure the cork, then sanded the rough edges off the cork and smoothed the top a bit.  I then took a tip from someone several months ago and sprayed the cork with gray stone paint by Rustoleum to give the impression of ballast until I do ballast sometime in the future.  I first tried Testors, and that little can was gone in no time flat.  Some folks ballast before putting in the rest of the scenery, and others leave the ballast go until after the scenery.  After trying both methods in HO, I found that I fit in the latter group.  One photograph.

Mark,

I like the look of the cork roadbed.  The paint treatment worked out very nicely, IMO.

George

Thank you. George!  Yes, I am quite pleased with it.  Little cost, little effort; and it will be a good stand in for ballast for the time being.

Thanks for sharing this technique, Mark. I really like the result. I likely won’t install ballast anytime in the foreseeable future as our focus is toy train/postwar display style. I could definitely see myself using this technique as a middle ground between full ballast and plain gray painted roadbed under tubular track. 

Keep up the good work!

Nice work, Mark, and looking good.

I wasn't able to get much done on my layout this weekend, but I did start construction on a small cabinet to house the transformers and Legacy base. I should be able to post some pic's tomorrow.

https://ogrforum.com/...deconstruction-phase

Thank you, JD and Richie!

really nice to see it start coming together for you.  great job!

Zak, Thank you very much!  I'm glad to have made some progress this past winter! 

I haven't had time to do any more since the last update.  I spent some time checking over 3 engines I sold that didn't quite fit in and shipped them off.  Then I went to York, where I picked up two sets at great prices.  I purchased a virtually new Premier ProtoSound  Western Maryland Fireball F3 A-B-A from a Forum member before York actually. 

Then I got an amazing deal on a NIB Premier WM Fireball FA-2 A-B-A with an add on B unit.

Mark B,

   Real nice job buddy, and I also like the deal you got on the new WM F3 A-B-A set, very cool!

Glad to see you are making some head way!

PCRR/Dave

Thank you very much, Dave!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Some folks ballast before putting in the rest of the scenery, and others leave the ballast go until after the scenery.  After trying both methods in HO, I found that I fit in the latter group.

 

I also am a big advocate of applying ballast after the basic scenery (trackside, at least) is in place. After all, that's what happens on the prototype.

Thank you Allan!  You make an excellent point!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Dave,

Both of those ideas have merit.  No the grades aren't too steep.  The real Blackwater grade was 3.4% I believe, and I tested all my engines pulling about 6 cars up 6% I believe it was with no trouble.  It's back there on page 3 or 4 or 5 or somewhere.  (William and Rich may be on to something there)   Ah, who cares; I'm having fun!

Back to the plans.  The passing siding with the 'extension' for lack of a better word, looks like something one may see on a tight mountain railroad.  The real Blackwater had a turnout partway down at Lime Rock, but not a passing siding. I printed them both off.  Call me a relic, call me what you will; I can 'see' things better on paper than the computer screen.  

Here is what the yard at Thomas looked like once upon a time.  We were there in August, and it is just a grassy area with the bike trail running through it like it was back in '95 or '96 the last time we were there.

Here is the switch at Lime Rock, partway down the grade.  

I'm looking for that photograph I sent Dave I scanned from a magazine of a large model railroad of two lines hugging a mountain slope, the lower one being at least two tracks.  I must have saved it elsewhere on my cloud drive.  Anyway, that would be the view looking through the big window connecting the laundry with the train room.  That vantage point is at the bottom of the drawings.  Anyway, when I find it, I'll post it, because it is pretty cool.

"Call me a relic, call me what you will?" Say you're old fashioned, say you're over the hill.

Hmmm, where did that come from?

Mike

Guitarmike posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

Dave,

Both of those ideas have merit.  No the grades aren't too steep.  The real Blackwater grade was 3.4% I believe, and I tested all my engines pulling about 6 cars up 6% I believe it was with no trouble.  It's back there on page 3 or 4 or 5 or somewhere.  (William and Rich may be on to something there)   Ah, who cares; I'm having fun!

Back to the plans.  The passing siding with the 'extension' for lack of a better word, looks like something one may see on a tight mountain railroad.  The real Blackwater had a turnout partway down at Lime Rock, but not a passing siding. I printed them both off.  Call me a relic, call me what you will; I can 'see' things better on paper than the computer screen.  

Here is what the yard at Thomas looked like once upon a time.  We were there in August, and it is just a grassy area with the bike trail running through it like it was back in '95 or '96 the last time we were there.

Here is the switch at Lime Rock, partway down the grade.  

I'm looking for that photograph I sent Dave I scanned from a magazine of a large model railroad of two lines hugging a mountain slope, the lower one being at least two tracks.  I must have saved it elsewhere on my cloud drive.  Anyway, that would be the view looking through the big window connecting the laundry with the train room.  That vantage point is at the bottom of the drawings.  Anyway, when I find it, I'll post it, because it is pretty cool.

"Call me a relic, call me what you will?" Say you're old fashioned, say you're over the hill.

Hmmm, where did that come from?

Mike

We must both be old fashioned, but NOT over the hill!!

Agreed!!

That kind of railroad justs soothes my soul. 

You are both right Mike and Pat!!!  

New new sets look sharp Mark.

A must confess to being one of the folks who kept Mark from continuing on his build. I can't say I'm too upset about it though

"I reminisce about the days of old
With that old time rock 'n' roll"

Bob, I'm glad I was able to repair it, and very glad you like it!  It is a handsome looking engine!

Now that the loop of track is fastened down to the table, I decided to bring my buildings down out of the attic, where I put them for safe keeping while heavy construction was going on.  I arranged some of them on the lower town site along with a few operating accessories I had in a bin in the garage.  I have more, and I will have an upper town.  This is just to start thinking again about what will go in each town and how it may fit.  The two sidings are not fastened down and can be moved to accommodate other building arrangements.  It was a happy time getting a start at visualizing what it may look like.  One thing I do know is that I want the operating accessories near the front so this little 61-year old boy can play with them, and the more realistic buildings and scenes in the background so the adult me can overlook the accessories and think he is up in the West Virginia mountains along the Western Maryland or Baltimore and Ohio back in the 1950s.

Looking really good, Mark. It's nice to see how the layout is going to look.

Your progress is starting to show, Mark. Good job so far. 

I looked at this on my phone last night. Didn't do it justice. Looks good Mark.

Bob

Thank you, Dave, Pat, and Bob!  Yes it seems like it is really a layout now!  :-)

          looks GREAT Mark

Thank you, Brian!!

Looking good, Mark. I love the blend of operating accessories and model structures. Keep up the good work! 

It is fun keeping up with the various projects posted on the forum, especially when my little layout is stored at the moment. It’s nice living vicariously through you and others until we have more time to get our table up and going. 

Keep posting, even the small victories, because it’s really enjoyable for me (and I’m sure others) who do not have any trains up and running at the moment.

Thank you, JD!  I too know the feeling of not having a layout, but enjoying watching others here on this Forum build and operate their layouts.  I had no layout when I joined this Forum 6 years ago, and actually hadn't had one for quite some time, but wanted another layout as I had when I wasn't so busy.  It is great encouragement for me that you appreciate just the little things I accomplish.  I appreciate the same of others.

Looks good, Mark.

Is that a sawmill up front ? 

Yes, it is an American Flyer by Lionel 3/64 scale that I got NIB from a Forum member.  I haven’t tried it out yet, but I think it looks good on a small O Gauge layout.  And it takes up less space than the Lionel O Gauge one I bought.

Looking good Mark! One day I hope to be where you are now! As you seen I have enough stuff! The funny thing is I had 4 more boxes I didn't even open!

mike g. posted:

Looking good Mark! One day I hope to be where you are now! As you seen I have enough stuff! The funny thing is I had 4 more boxes I didn't even open!

Thank you, Mike!  I hope to see you this far along soon!!  I have enough too.  I have some larger items that I am thinking won’t look good on a small layout.  We will see!

STOP THE PRESSES!  STOP THE PRESSES!

Major development came up over the weekend!!  As we are cleaning out stuff left over from when our two daughters lived with us, my wife asked me if I wanted to build the layout in the family room adjacent to the "train room".  This encompasses the area the Ceiling Central Railroad is in plus a slightly larger space on the other side of the duct work bulkhead.  All along I wondered why we needed three sitting rooms, the living room, sun room directly above the train room and the front half of the family room; but I never once spoke up.  The furniture in the family room consists of a rocking love seat and single chair her parents discarded to us about 15 years ago, a small dresser with a television on it, and a folding table she uses for jigsaw puzzles.  She says it is too cold to sit down there in the winter, which is true.

So, I am waiting for it to be brought up again as we finish cleaning out, but as you may guess, it makes me think I will put a hold on layout construction; not that I have much time for it this time of year anyway.

The room is 12 feet wide at it's widest, the part farthest from the train room.  After 12 feet, it narrows to about 10 1/2 feet for the rest of the way.   It is 24 feet long.  Now, the one caveat is that I have to keep a walkway open all along that 10 1/2 feet wide section because here are four doors along it, two on the end.  So the workable width at the front is 12 feet, then it would be about 7 1/2 feet width until I get to the end, where the exterior door only leaves 5 feet.  This is a quick diagram of the room.  I still have a lot of measurements to do.  I still want the same theme.  I'll need to rewrite an updated list of features wanted, but basically it will still be a loop to loop design with a town at each end and a long steady climb up the mountain.

                  GREAT NEWS MARK !!!

Mark Boyce posted:

So, I am waiting for it to be brought up again as we finish cleaning out, 

Mark my man. This is no time to be timid. Oportunity strikes but once. You should suggest that you take this room and the porch as well. It will make a nice staging area. Be firm but polite. Maybe after taking her out to dinner. No sense pushing too hard. 

You must be living a good, clean life!! Sounds like things are about to expand layout wise and that looks like a pretty good space for a layout too. Hope you get things all worked out for the new space.

I am with Pat !!!     GO FOR IT Mark !!!!

Mark, I had a 500 sq ft bonus room above the garage, heated and cooled. I dragged my feet a little and the next thing I knew my wife and her sister decided that was too nice for trains!  I'm now just finishing up the basement for my layout, no danger of her taking that area. Whats the saying? He who hesitates, loses.

Good luck, Steve

Excellent news, Mark. I agree with Pat - draw up a sketch plan and take her to dinner and show her the plan. Then buy a couple pieces of lumber and lay them down on the floor to claim your territory. Can't back out after that !!

                                 1:     yep, a nice dinner...

                           2:   show her the new layout plan...

                   3:     then claim your new territory !!! 

LOL to all!  Brian, Richie, Pat, Steve, RTR12, I agree with all of you!

Brian, that track plan sure looks familiar!  LOL. That is a good start!  1, 2, 3!

The trouble with extending from the existing train room is that the only section the two rooms have in common is the narrow door between the exterior door and the laundry door.  It just won’t work.

But, I can leave the shelf I just built and make it into a workshop and storage room!  I would like that because my workshop now consists of a folding table in the train room and a bunch of tool boxes laying around!  

My wife was looking at what I already built and realized I won’t even have room to turn around in that room if we have grandchildren some day who will come to run Pap Pap’s trains!  LOL

Mark, if I understood what you said, I picture the new space looking something like this. I see I missed the door in the upper right though.

Anyway, the way I have it, it looks like a 90x252 space with a 54x108 add-on in the upper left. Is this close? I also added a set of tracks with O54 curves (not shown) to the file just to get an idea of what the space will hold.

Mark Boyce posted:

STOP THE PRESSES!  STOP THE PRESSES!

Major development came up over the weekend!!  As we are cleaning out stuff left over from when our two daughters lived with us, my wife asked me if I wanted to build the layout in the family room adjacent to the "train room".  This encompasses the area the Ceiling Central Railroad is in plus a slightly larger space on the other side of the duct work bulkhead.  All along I wondered why we needed three sitting rooms, the living room, sun room directly above the train room and the front half of the family room; but I never once spoke up.  The furniture in the family room consists of a rocking love seat and single chair her parents discarded to us about 15 years ago, a small dresser with a television on it, and a folding table she uses for jigsaw puzzles.  She says it is too cold to sit down there in the winter, which is true.

So, I am waiting for it to be brought up again as we finish cleaning out, but as you may guess, it makes me think I will put a hold on layout construction; not that I have much time for it this time of year anyway.

The room is 12 feet wide at it's widest, the part farthest from the train room.  After 12 feet, it narrows to about 10 1/2 feet for the rest of the way.   It is 24 feet long.  Now, the one caveat is that I have to keep a walkway open all along that 10 1/2 feet wide section because here are four doors along it, two on the end.  So the workable width at the front is 12 feet, then it would be about 7 1/2 feet width until I get to the end, where the exterior door only leaves 5 feet.  This is a quick diagram of the room.  I still have a lot of measurements to do.  I still want the same theme.  I'll need to rewrite an updated list of features wanted, but basically it will still be a loop to loop design with a town at each end and a long steady climb up the mountain.

 

CONGRATULATIONS Mark!  Sounds like you are back to square 1 with all the additional space.  I'm very glad for you.  Instead of going round and round consider a point to point setup.  You can have a "continuous option" on each "end" if you want to let one run hands free occasionally.  SUPER great of your wife to recognize your passion and allow you more area.  :-)  

DoubleDAZ posted:

Mark, if I understood what you said, I picture the new space looking something like this. I see I missed the door in the upper right though.

Anyway, the way I have it, it looks like a 90x252 space with a 54x108 add-on in the upper left. Is this close? I also added a set of tracks with O54 curves (not shown) to the file just to get an idea of what the space will hold.

 

Dave, That was close.  Actually, I can use the lower 5 feet that you have labeled 36" Walkway.  Like this.

John C. posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

STOP THE PRESSES!  STOP THE PRESSES!

Major development came up over the weekend!!  As we are cleaning out stuff left over from when our two daughters lived with us, my wife asked me if I wanted to build the layout in the family room adjacent to the "train room".  This encompasses the area the Ceiling Central Railroad is in plus a slightly larger space on the other side of the duct work bulkhead.  All along I wondered why we needed three sitting rooms, the living room, sun room directly above the train room and the front half of the family room; but I never once spoke up.  The furniture in the family room consists of a rocking love seat and single chair her parents discarded to us about 15 years ago, a small dresser with a television on it, and a folding table she uses for jigsaw puzzles.  She says it is too cold to sit down there in the winter, which is true.

So, I am waiting for it to be brought up again as we finish cleaning out, but as you may guess, it makes me think I will put a hold on layout construction; not that I have much time for it this time of year anyway.

The room is 12 feet wide at it's widest, the part farthest from the train room.  After 12 feet, it narrows to about 10 1/2 feet for the rest of the way.   It is 24 feet long.  Now, the one caveat is that I have to keep a walkway open all along that 10 1/2 feet wide section because here are four doors along it, two on the end.  So the workable width at the front is 12 feet, then it would be about 7 1/2 feet width until I get to the end, where the exterior door only leaves 5 feet.  This is a quick diagram of the room.  I still have a lot of measurements to do.  I still want the same theme.  I'll need to rewrite an updated list of features wanted, but basically it will still be a loop to loop design with a town at each end and a long steady climb up the mountain.

 

CONGRATULATIONS Mark!  Sounds like you are back to square 1 with all the additional space.  I'm very glad for you.  Instead of going round and round consider a point to point setup.  You can have a "continuous option" on each "end" if you want to let one run hands free occasionally.  SUPER great of your wife to recognize your passion and allow you more area.  :-)  

John, Thank you!!  I am going to consider just what you said.  Maybe I could fit in a wye at each end for turning engines and then have the continuous option as well.  

My wife of 33 years has always supported my hobby.  She likes to help by finding scenic items to add, sometimes funny ones, and sometimes ones I wouldn't pick, but I never discourage her.

I thought that might be the case, Mark, just wasn't sure.