Blackwater Canyon Line - October 14, 2024 - Town and Scratchbuild Planning

Banana jacks. Had heard of them but no idea of how used. Look a lot better than trying to connect with ends that don’t fit well.

Building lighting. It can be a fun way to enjoy a change of pace and is surprisingly easy to install and control unless you want to get exotic. We have searched for “easy exotic”,  an easy way to control different rooms, lights, etc without much success.

Arduino is not in our vocabulary and is often mentioned.

So we opted for about seven choices while awaiting the magic box that will offer more options at a reasonable cost. We control the lights through the AIU/remote.

All of our buildings, structures are lighted. The roundhouse has over 100 LEDs with separate control over each stall plus the outside lights. We primarily use LEDs from Dave at Evan Designs. They cost a bit more but he backs them up and is always helpful.

If you want some ideas, give us a call.

Your wiring is exceptional.

Thank you, Bill!  We used banana plugs a lot in electronics years ago for a quick connection on test equipment or other devices.  The binding posts on the TIU are the typical double banana jack made to plug them into.  Nowadays, so many devices have an Ethernet jack to plug a laptop into instead of using test equipment.  How things changed during my 43 years working in electronics.  I never got into programming anything or writing instructions like the Arduino takes, so I had no interest going that route.  It is enough for me to learn how to use the AIU.  In fact, I never heard of Arduino until I had retired and Forum members brought it up here.

Thank you for the offer of advice on building lighting.  That will be down the road a ways.

I'm not quite finished with the turnout control wiring.  Today I temporarily mounted the push buttons to the layout frame.  I will do a better job when I put in a pretty fascia.  There are 3 more done on the other side of the layout.  These all work.  I am going to make labels for them since so many are so close together.  The three on the other side of the layout are spaced apart, so it is obvious which turnout they control.  The remote control through the AIU works too.  I just looked through everything for the two missing DZ1002 pushbuttons, but didn't find them.  Maybe they fell down behind something.    So wiring is almost done with the last two.

I'll be glad to put away the wire strippers and crimpers!! 

Looks good Mark!

@Mark Boyce posted:

I'll be glad to put away the wire strippers and crimpers!! 

said no one ever!

Nice work Mark. I bet you are happy to have that project in the rearview

@RSJB18 posted:

said no one ever!

Nice work Mark. I bet you are happy to have that project in the rearview

Yes, Bob, for a small layout this has dragged on way to long

That's a neat job you did there. Looks great! You must be a professional

Looking good Mark. Will you be able to get in there underneath or behind the fascia at the wires and such should that need arise? That's one of the things I always worried about, being able to get at where it is not so easy to get into. Most of my issues were not hobby related, but could have easily been so.

It looks good Mark!  That has to feel good to essentially be finished with it!

-Greg

Thank you, Bill, Dave, Greg!!!

Bill, I do have a few years under my belt.  However, after carpal tunnel surgery in each hand twice, a broken right hand, and arthritis in my thumbs, I do a lot of fumbling these days! 

Dave, Yes, I can get under the layout when I pull out all the stuff I store underneath!    I did all the wiring seated on my roll around stool from the operating area except for the two switches that still don't have pushbuttons.  They are right behind the peninsula that has the control center.  Yesterday, I pulled out the patchwork covered chest in the photograph and some boxes to the right of it to prewire the two switches that are on the lower level yard.  I have a small creeper that is a bit hard to get back up from, but it gives me good access.  Also, none of the plywood shelving under the other areas of the layout is fastened down.  I can pull it out if I have to, but I made as many connections as possible near the aisle.

Greg, you can say that again!! 

Lookin' good, Mark.

Once you put the fascia up, will you be running the wiring through the fascia to the pushbuttons for "extra credit" ?  

Richie, I always did my extra credit work, just in case I bombed a test!    Yes, I decided not to drill holes for the wires now, but will do that once the facia goes up.  I'll then decide if any should be in different positions, but am sure I will put them up a little higher.

Mark,

I'm with you on the wiring. It must be done and must be done correctly but it's my least favorite things to do. I'm glad to see you're getting close to being finished with the turnout wiring. That's quite a milestone.

Dave

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Bill, Dave, Greg!!!

Bill, I do have a few years under my belt.  However, after carpal tunnel surgery in each hand twice, a broken right hand, and arthritis in my thumbs, I do a lot of fumbling these days! 

Dave, Yes, I can get under the layout when I pull out all the stuff I store underneath!    I did all the wiring seated on my roll around stool from the operating area except for the two switches that still don't have pushbuttons.  They are right behind the peninsula that has the control center.  Yesterday, I pulled out the patchwork covered chest in the photograph and some boxes to the right of it to prewire the two switches that are on the lower level yard.  I have a small creeper that is a bit hard to get back up from, but it gives me good access.  Also, none of the plywood shelving under the other areas of the layout is fastened down.  I can pull it out if I have to, but I made as many connections as possible near the aisle.

Greg, you can say that again!! 

Mark, I feel your pain.  After bi-lateral knee replacement surgery and more, I’m trying to figure out how to design my new layout and what flooring to put in. Any thoughts, anyone?

Thank you, Dave and Rubin!

Rubin, I have no suggestions.   My floor is still concrete.  At least the rolling stool moves easily.  I would like to put something down on the traffic area.

RubinG, if you are starting from scratch I would suggest a wooden subfloor instead of concrete. For the flooring I would suggest vinyl. Most of the area will probably be covered by the layout. What will save your lower extremities will be well placed fatigue mats for those areas where you will be standing for extended periods. Perhaps a draftsman’s chair with an adjustable seat and foot rest for operational comfort.

Mark, looking good!!!

Jay Francis,

Thanks for your response. I agree with your suggestion about linoleum with fatigue mats. But the structure has a new master suite above it. I don’t understand how we would do a wood subfloor. It is a basement room after all. Are you suggesting wood on top of concrete?  
thanks in advance for your thoughts and help.

@RubinG Harbor Freight sells anti fatigue mats that are cheap. They're not top quality but you can slice them with a utility knife and the long term goal is not to crawl around under the layout anyway. I put them down on my concrete floor and I think they'll get me through the layout building stages. My knees aren't bad yet but concrete still hurts to kneel on. These have helped a ton. My only beef is they're a bit of a pain to sweep and run the shop-vac on but that's a small price to pay compared to kneeling on concrete.

@RubinG posted:

Mark, I feel your pain.  After bi-lateral knee replacement surgery and more, I’m trying to figure out how to design my new layout and what flooring to put in. Any thoughts, anyone?

My builder wanted to put carpet in the basement.   Can you imagine all the sawdust, dirt, and gunk that would have been captured?  We finally got them to do linoleum squares.  The roll-around stool works great on that and you can sweep up with a broom and dustpan.

Mark - great progress!  I am done with my current amount of wiring, but as each major section of the layout is constructed we go back to that.

George

Thank you, Jay, Jeff, Rubin, Bill, George!

Jeff, I'm glad to hear from you!  What's it been, 2 or 3 years since I visited you and your layout?  I hope you are well.

George, yes with a layout the size of yours, I would have approached it the same way.  I would do the layout in sections.

Great discussion everyone!  Thank you for participating.  Yes, the floor is important, and more important the older we get.  I agree with George, the carpet would always be a mess while building the layout.  Something else would be good.  Bill, I have looked at the anti-fatigue mats myself.  I may buy a few for the operating area once I'm not rolling around on the stool.  This house we are in was my wife's grandparents, and later parents when Grandma passed on.  Once Kim's dad passed on, her mum wanted out and talked us into buying it for a sweetheart deal.  That was just over 10 years ago.  While her parents were living here they had some remodeling done.  They had ceramic tile put in the laundry room and master bathroom.  The train room was an addition built only to support he sunroom above.  They only intended it for storage.  The builder talked her into letting him leave a bunch of ceramic tile for this room; odds and ends from other jobs.  My wife wanted me to put down the ceramic tile, but I knew that would make bumps for rolling around.  During the summer a year ago, I dragged all the tile out of the shed, scrubbed them up from 10 years of who knows what in the shed and discovered what a mix match he had left.  I also realized there were several different sizes.  I counted 4 different sizes from 11" to 12 1/2 inches.  There aren't even quite enough to finish the room even if they were all the same size.  So I showed my wife; in my opinion he just dumped his refuse on Mum and Dad.  I have them stacked under the layout, and should have carried them down and dumped them at my dad's house when we had someone in to clean out all the old junk.  Maybe the ceramic tiles will be passed on whenever we leave this house. 

All that to say, while it isn't pretty, the concrete floor allows me to roll around easily, and the shop vac works great.  My wife bought me a very firm cushion that helps my damaged sciatic nerve when sitting on a hard chair.  Since I can only kneel on one knee, and then for a short time, it works better on the floor than my strap on knee pads.  I worked on my knees way too much over the years, that is for sure.  I should have taken note to the trouble my brother-in-law's uncle had with his knees.  He was a carpet layer.

Looking good Mark. The flooring is an important consideration both short and long term. I went with a short nap Berber carpet. And there have been some sawdust and other messes, but I can vacuum them up easily. I think it’s better for my knees and back. Another plus is that if I drop something, chances are it won’t break as badly with a harder surface. But these are all trade-offs. Everyone should select what work for them.

Andy

Andy, excellent point about dropping things.  I destroyed the Menards truss bridge, which is delicate like a lot of our models, on the cement.  I have thought of a short nap carpet as well.  The carpet squares would be easy to put down since I already have the layout up.

Hi Mark,

Great idea with the carpet squares! I had just epoxied the cement floor to keep cement dust down. Which I think is working also for my wife as there is also less dust up in the living quarters. My thoughts are to either put down some fatique squares or some carpet runners where there is walkway. I kinda of like the idea of using a rolling stool to run trains, however that would be better just on cement. I know the concerns of dropping expensive items as I have the dropsies more often than not... Great progress on your layout and the wiring is outstanding!

Happy Thanksgiving

John

@Aegis21 posted:

Hi Mark,

Great idea with the carpet squares! I had just epoxied the cement floor to keep cement dust down. Which I think is working also for my wife as there is also less dust up in the living quarters. My thoughts are to either put down some fatique squares or some carpet runners where there is walkway. I kinda of like the idea of using a rolling stool to run trains, however that would be better just on cement. I know the concerns of dropping expensive items as I have the dropsies more often than not... Great progress on your layout and the wiring is outstanding!

Happy Thanksgiving

John

‘Ive been debating between carpet squares and linoleum. I’ve always used fatigue runners too. My concern with carpet is that rolling tools and me will be more difficult and the carpet is bound to get stained when I do scenery. Any thoughts?

Thank you John and Rubin.  My only experience with carpet squares was at work.  They had them in all the office areas when I went to work at the phone company at the beginning of 1997, and most of the same ones they were still there when I retired in 2019.  As a technician, I rolled a cart with equipment over them, then half way through I moved to engineering.  The hard plastic mat wasn’t necessary under office chairs, they rolled fine.  Yes, some got stained over the years with coffee and pop spills the rug cleaners couldn’t remove.  They had extra squares that they used to replace badly stained ones, but it wasn’t necessary very often.  

I have finished wiring in all the turnout DZ1002 pushbuttons.  Joe Fauty sent me some.  That is one of the great things of this Forum, so many folks help each other.

I started wiring in the GarGraves uncouplers.  There aren't many and they are very straight forward.  I'm just drilling a hole in the layout frame to secure the pushbuttons right in front of the particular uncouplers.  It is working fine.  IT looks like I will have just enough of this smaller gauge wire.  I forgot to get a photograph, but there isn't much to see anyway.

Mark, wiring is just a process that may not need photographs for unless there is something being done that hasn't been done before, or there is a big explanation that just can't be done with words.

I had asked Gerry what his layout was up to and why nothing updated. His reply was wiring, not much to show there. That made sense to me, so no photos needed. Now if you were wiring something up that worked with the switch as it was activated somehow and made magic, now that would need photos.

Hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving. Now the mad dash to Christmas starts.

It's funny how tasks like this--unglamorous and tedious--make up a fair portion of layout building.  It's hard to think of them in terms of enjoyment, but they are necessary prerequisites for the enjoyment.

it's all progress, Mark!

No photo? There is always something to see… well, maybe uncouplers are kinda dull.

But good job getting them done.

Will they work with an AIU? Or is this a good place to assume that someone will be standing there doing the operating? Mark you have stirred up a debate between Paula, Rich, and me, especially regarding how to handle the yards. Thanks.

When we planned the train room, we read a lot and ended up with wood flooring, black ceiling, backdrops from Backdrop Warehouse, and Phillips LED floodlights. We have been pleased with the outcome.

Thank you Dave, Steve, and Bill.  
I’m reminded of someone on the Forum who said “if there isn’t a photograph, it didn’t happen! “  😆  I agree with all of you.  Nothing new to show on what I’m doing now.

Bill, I thought about the AIU momentary control, but thought what you mentioned that I’ll be right there making sure the cars are in the correct position to be uncoupled, so the push button is easy.  I stirred a debate!  😄 I have never had a yard and don’t know just how that would work.  It sounds like you three have come up with different ideas.

Wood flooring is one no one mentioned until now.  I used wood flooring when it was already there in a previous house.

Mark, I am glad you got them all done! Maybe it will keep you out from under the layout for awhile! But since you like wiring so much, I wish you were closer so you could help with some of mine! LOL

Mike, thank you!  If I was helping you, I could stay at the padded seat at the panel, and you could go under the layout!  😉😉

Hey Mark,  glad all the GG uncouplers went in and got wired up.  I was thinking of you today when I was down installing some magnets for Kadee uncouplers.   Found a few more Gargraves uncouplers, but I don't have the energy or motivation to cut them out and then have to re-do the trackwork !!!   When I had them installed I used the same logic which was put the momentary push button in close proximity to the uncoupler as I would want to be there to switch cars.   

Chris, you should try N scale Kadees.  I put them on all my N scale cars 30 years ago, but had trouble with the uncoupling magnets.  Of course I knew no one to ask at the time.  I ended uncoupling with a plastic stick.

I thought of you when I was working on the uncouplers.  I need to cut the track for one more I didn’t think about when laying the track.  Thank you!

Plastic stick uncoupling is often used by scale modelers who do a lot of switching. You’re not as confined as with fixed uncoupled and they certainly beat using your hands.
im contemplating converting my freight cars to Kadees on my new layout.

You are quite right, Rubin.  I haven’t tried O scale Kadees, but I’m sure they are much easier to work with than the N scale ones I used 30 years ago.  Actually, I’m quite used to the big klunky O gauge couplers now.  

Mark, I modeled in N about 50 years ago (yikes!), using the standard N couplers of the time  The paint jobs were gorgeous, but the mechanicals are another story. But

with the dexterity and eyesight we probably both share today, I can’t imagine doing N scale today. I also really enjoy the heft and size of O. But for now, I’ve got to dismantle my layout , pack and store all my trains, so that my new train room basement, er…my wife’s new first floor bedroom and kitchen may be built.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I have finished wiring in all the turnout DZ1002 pushbuttons.  Joe Fauty sent me some.  That is one of the great things of this Forum, so many folks help each other.

I started wiring in the GarGraves uncouplers.  There aren't many and they are very straight forward.  I'm just drilling a hole in the layout frame to secure the pushbuttons right in front of the particular uncouplers.  It is working fine.  IT looks like I will have just enough of this smaller gauge wire.  I forgot to get a photograph, but there isn't much to see anyway.

Hi Mark,

I may have missed you post on uncoupler locations, if I did my apologies. Where did you locate the uncouplers on layout and for what tasks will they be accomplishing?

Thanks