Dave, Ah ha! I never thought of that. I still could check on the calculated grades on each side of the leveled switch, but on the other hand, it will be work out to be what is on the layout. Thank you!!!
Mark, the only thing that is tickling the back of my head is the idea that every track loop is at some sort of grade. No flat loop anywhere. An earlier version had two relatively flat loops with connecting inclines. Hmmm Jeff
Jeff, I read your message last evening, but am only getting around to answering. I wanted to find the plan I think you are referring to. Is this it?
You have a good point about no flat loops in any of my plans; actually from day one! Flat loops is a good idea, since I have always been working with grades.
I find it rather interesting that it has been 6 years since Sissy got married and vacated the room, and I am still struggling with plan. I think it is because what I wanted to do would never fit in an 11x11 room, and I am exhausted beating my head against the wall. 
Back to the plans. I have 3 variations that could be accomplished with leaving the engine service area and lift-up bridges intact. I'm going to go back to the layout and move some things around to try to visualize something like this plan and see where it takes me.
Jeff, your input is much appreciated!
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Keep working at it Mark! It will come to you eventually.
I was just out in the train room and realized how much stuff I am going to pack just to change things around. I have to pack everything as I see a lot of demo and rebuilding! LOL
Mark - it looks like it. the file was named "Mark Back to the Drawingboard jrw5c.scarm"
I ran/run conventional about half the time. On 3% and less grades, with any load, the train would noticably slow down going up and speed up going down. Of course DCS cures that. In the event of an uncoupling, they will flow downhill. I've noticed my big iron prefers to run level and any turnouts with a touch of "not" will derail from time to time. None of my RailKings would do that, but my GS-4 with the big drivers is really finnicky.
If you were dealing with 1% grades then no big deal, but you are not, which is why my comments and concern. Having operating problems on a newly completed layout is not fun. Been there, Done that.
Thank you, Mike, Jeff! Mike, it is a job storing things when you make big changes on a layout.
Jeff, All I can find is "Mark Back to the Drawingboard jrw5.scarm" and "Mark Back to the Drawingboard jrw5a.scarm" That's okay. Yes, I have experienced runaway trains when couplers fail. "Look out below!!" I have two MTH PS1 F3 sets (one is Western Maryland, the other is B&O) that are a pain to run on the layout as it is for sure! So, they set on the shelf most of the time. Convincing observations, for sure.
On to the layout. I've been working on a pier for the double track bridge end away from the hinges. I reused some of the stacked scraps I used before. It is a work in progress, but this shows the general idea.
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Looking good Mark! I like the reuse method; it saves a lot of us money in the long run! LOL
Mark, I made many iterations of my layout before I finally started building. You’ll find the plan that makes you happiest. We all need to compromise for lack of space, use, etc. I agree with Mike, you never know when you can find a use for those scraps you’ve been holding on to for so long. Keep at it, you’ll get there.
Andy
Thank you, Mike, Andy!
Yes, I am the salvage man! 
I'm glad I didn't get to doing scenery before I decided this current layout isn't working for me. As I've mentioned, the engine service area and lift-up bridges work well, as does the little siding and scene by the door. However, I greatly appreciate Jeff's persistence in pointing out some glaring problems, that never came to the forefront of my mind. Back in the summer, he presented the same ideas, and I was reluctant to accept except for the raised town with something underneath. Yes, modifying the layout to look something like Jeff suggested will take a little more work, but now is the time to take the extra effort in building something that will work well in this small room. I was actually fiddling around with the layout last night and came up with a couple ideas that allows me to tear out a little less, but fulfill the design. More on that to come.
Maybe this is becoming my Plan 'E'. 
(I'm a hardware guy not a software guy, so I never caught on to their notation such as this becoming ver. 5.0)
Mark,
I haven’t weighed in too much because you’ve been so well advised by others. But if you’ll forgive me, I think there two things to consider in finalizing your design: your back and your knees. As I’m progressing in designing my own layout, I’m finding that my ideas need to be constrained by the need avoid too much time on my knees or crawling under the layout. I hope I’m not out of line, but after two knee replacements …
As to the track plan itself, sometimes simpler is better, especially if you want effective scenery. Anyway, that’s my two cents. Now back to learning RRTrack.
Rubin
Rubin, I appreciate your comments about designing to avoid pain and/or injury to the knees and back. I have one replaced knee, a lumbar L3-L4-L5 fusion, and the leg with the good knee has permanent sciatic damage. Hence, the need for the lift-up bridges, and fairly narrow benchwork. I was just checking arm reach to the backdrop while standing flat footed and not leaning for an idea last evening. I've been able to do a minimal work under the layout, by dropping long wires for track down through the benchwork then grabbing them with a tool so I can make connections near the front of the layout while seated on the roll around stool. It's worked out pretty well, but there is always the risk of getting excited about an idea and building myself into a torture trap. You are not out of line at all!! I think all of us need a friendly reminder now and then. We aren't getting younger, and we will be older when we have to find a future short circuit.
Simpler was the motivation behind the arm reach test on one of Jeff's ideas. Good luck on learning RRTrack. I have never tried it, but everyone says it is a good program!!
Here's a short video of a modification I made. I cut out the lower passing siding under the window and curled it around to the long siding. It makes for a nice temporary loop while I figure everything else out and work on the upper level construction. I'll answer any questions later since I don't have time to go into detail now. Thank you for looking!
Looks great Mark, nice to see the train running!
Celebration. Train runs again!
Congratulations . Looks good.
👍👍👍👍😁😁😁
Looks good Mark! nice work on the modification.
Congratulations Mark, that was a lot of planning and execution. That’s has to give you a good sense of accomplishment and the satisfaction of another job well done.
Jay
It is always good to see trains running on a temporary or finalized plan.
Looks great Mark! The ability to run the trains during the build makes it all the more enjoyable! Congrats on the progress!
WM Engineer to his fireman: "Ya know, Frank? I can't wait till management gets that new highline finished. It's a pain having to deal with all these slow orders."
Fireman: "You betcha, Ted. Not to mention the sections of track piled higher than our cab. Why, one of those stacks could lean over and fall on us at any time!"
Engineer: "*snort* "Like management cares. There's a buncha guys on on the lower end of the seniority list. They'll jump at the chance to be the next victims."
Fireman: "You got that right!"
Thank you Mike, Bill, Bob, jnadpa, Jay, PRRMP54, Rich, Steve!!
The prospects of having two point-to-point tracks for an extended period of time was discouraging. I recalled an idea I had this past summer when I first realized I didn't like my layout with the two short passing sidings. I couldn't keep up with two trains running with the short sidings and short runs between the two even running at 10 SMPH. This little cutoff really helps me to have fun running a train while planning and reconstruction continue.
Actually this loop is in effect part of one of Jeff's plans. Here are a couple of screenshots of a Jeff plan that I modified slightly.
First, just the lower level in green and the inclines in purple. The continuous green loop is roughly what I made and showed it in the video. If I wanted to follow this plan, I have enough depth to add to the table top along the left side of the operating area for the green sidings. Right now the table is 30" deep. I did a reach test, and could make it up to 36" and still reach the track along the backdrop.
This one is the upper level in green and the inclines in purple. Here is where I modified Jeff's plan. I forgot to add in the bridges over the walk-in point, but suffice it to say that I had to lengthen the passing siding past the bridges towards the backdrop at the bottom of the drawing. In doing that, no curved switch would fit and get the curves to not hit the backdrop. Therefore, I had to extend the passing siding around the bend as can be seen.
I'm still pondering what to do, but in the meantime, it is nice to run a train on my lower loop. I added the SCARM file here if anyone wants to take a look at it. Thank you!
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@palallin posted:WM Engineer to his fireman: "Ya know, Frank? I can't wait till management gets that new highline finished. It's a pain having to deal with all these slow orders."
Fireman: "You betcha, Ted. Not to mention the sections of track piled higher than our cab. Why, one of those stacks could lean over and fall on us at any time!"
Engineer: "*snort* "Like management cares. There's a buncha guys on on the lower end of the seniority list. They'll jump at the chance to be the next victims."
Fireman: "You got that right!"
Steve, That is an excellent dialog! I love it!! two thumbs up for sure! 
As an former employee who was deemed expendable, I laughed at the last part!!!
Mark, outstanding! Glad to see you have trains running again. It’s starting to come together!
Andy
Mike,
I'm with Mike, it's great to see a train running on your layout again. Might I add, it's running very smoothly. I think the update on trackwork works well.
Dave
Hi Mark,
It's been a spell. While playing catch up on your progress I was really impressed that you could work an Atlas double track bridge into the layout. It's prominent location sure showcases the product. You may need to ask for royalties. 😁
Keep up the great work. Truly a testament to how much Ooooo you can get out of a little O.
Bruce
Thank you, Andy, Dave, Bruce!
Dave, I aways wish my track was smoother, but it seems to suffice. Thank you!
Bruce, I am pleased with the double track bridge. Now if I can make the rest of the layout look good enough to compliment it well, I will be happy.
I was running a train while I was working on getting the pier the exact right height. After several passes, there was a slight derailment of the last two cars as they came off the lower bridge. After getting them back on track, I saw where the lower bridge seats down the track was slightly skewed. The bridge track was not matching up to the track screwed down to the table. I discovered I could shift the free end of the bridge back and forth a bit with my hand. Going back to the hinged side, I saw a support board from the original location was slightly cracked. I will have to replace it which isn't a big deal, but I'll want to figure out how to do it better so it doesn't happen again.
Sounds like an easy fix, good thing you caught it now then later!
Yes Mike, It is one of the uprights that the pivot bolt goes through. I think I put stress on it as I was aligning the holes I drilled in the plexiglass sections you gave me. Since I’ve had it apart a couple times, it should be an easy fix, since I’ll make sure I shim any misalignment instead of trying to man handle it. 😆
I got my pier 'core' to the right height to add plywood roadbed. I test fit with this scrap, and need to buy a sheet of plywood before I can continue. The railhead matches right up to the railhead on the double track bridge. It just happened that the tallest of the K-Line trestle piers match almost level with the top of the pier, so I put two of them in place temporarily to balance my plywood in the first photograph.
The next two photographs show where I laid out some track where it would go if I followed Jeff's idea for sidings under the removable town. It is obvious that I would have to determine exact locations for roadbed supports and lift-out town supports if I go that route.
This last photograph shows I would have to extend the table top 4" to support the track coming off the lower loop to feed the storage tracks in Jeff's plan. It would certainly work.
I neglected to take a video of the RailKing PS3 B&O SD9 that Dave @luvindemtrains asked about. I recall when I started seeing SD7s and or 9s taking the place of F-units on the B&O near where I grew up. I bought this engine new from Patrick's Trains in Wheeling this summer. It is really nice for a RailKing price.
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And its running long hood forward 👍👍.
🤣🤣
@RSJB18 posted:And its running long hood forward 👍👍.
🤣🤣
That's the only way to go!
Looking good Mark. The mock up helps you see what could be. Nice video. Smooth running.
Andy
Well done!
Peter
Now look, it is unfair for the train to simply disappear. Glad to see things running perfect but where did it go? Tried following on the track plan but I am not very good at that.
You are really making progress!
Oh yeah, their is no way that you are going to pass up the additional storage that Jeff’s plan offers. But that is a 2023 project.
Hey Mark, things are really looking up for you, Trains running nice and smooth, progress on the layout and maybe only a couple of inches of snow!
I really like the look of the Plexi glass I might have to cut some new stuff for my single bridge!
Thank you, Bob, Andy, Peter, Bill, Mike!
Andy, I just have to mock things up, especially because I am trying to find places to fit the existing track (especially the grades) into the new plans.
Peter, I have GarGraves cuts on my fingers like you. I thought of you right away when I got the biggest gouge. 
Bill, the train disappeared under the wye that leads to the engine house. Upper right in the drawings. You are right about the additional storage. Tracks in Jeff's location would be much longer than the short storage tracks under the enginehouse. I also would be able to make a lift-off section much easier to lift off since there would be no track over these tracks. The tracks for the wye and engine house made it difficult to make a cover that can be lifted off easily. If a car fouls up, I end up reaching in from the front and end up pulling cars out to get them on track.
Mike, yes I didn't even have to shovel any snow. The shovel and blower are still in the shed. They got hit a few miles north of us. I am very pleased with the plexiglass. It is really solid and since it is transparent/translucent it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb under the bridges.
@Mark Boyce,
I am enjoying your layout build. I just want offer my favorable opinion on out of sight storage. I didn’t put any tracks at the beginning, but was fortunate to be able to just add them as I progressed. The area is on the left hand side of the “U”, under the elevated section. I have 75 cars and a 5 car passenger steam train on 7 switched sidings, along with 2 through tracks. Along with a 5 track yard on the right side, all engines and rolling stock are on rails. I realize you may not have as much space, but you will appreciate not having to offload shelves to make up a different train. 
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John, your layout looks beautiful but how do you deal with doing work on the middle of each section? As I plan my new layout, I’m trying to eliminate duckunders and any reach longer than 3 feet or so. Perhaps you are just slot more limber than I.
In any event, it looks great.
@RubinG,
Thanks for the very nice complement. The U sections are 7' wide and I can reach the middle standing on the second step of the stool visible in the one Picture. I try to put items in the center that won't need much attention after they are installed. I built the road on my bench and then put it in. Buildings are all finished beforehand with a plug to drop through for lighting. The left side has a lift out by the MTH bridge next to the barn.It is not an easy stretch, but I am 6' with a pretty good reach. The main level is 44", which helps me still work underneath. My grandkids got taller pretty fast, but I still need to get under once in a while. I just had a work platform and a couple of two-steps available for the younger ones.I made it 7' to accommodate O72 track..
I changed things many times after getting the first version of track laid, so keep at it until it works for you. The feeling of satisfaction is well worth the effort. I started with the plan pictured. It's still the same, only different, as my dad used to say.
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Thank you, John and Rubin!!
Rubin, I always appreciate a question or comment for someone who replied to my posts. Sometimes it's a question I want to ask and sometimes it's a question I never thought of, but learned too.
John, I agree with Rubin, your layout looks great! I don't think I have ever seen an overall view before. I sure would like to have every car on the rails, but as you observed I don't have the room. This plan for adding some tracks to my layout will work well I think. Thank you for the encouragement to make changes to the original plan to see what works best for me.!
