Blackwater Canyon Line - September 8, 2024 - Town and Scratchbuild Planning

Wow Jeff!!  Thank you so much for the tip!  I would have just gotten on a roll, then wondered what I did wrong!!! 

@Mark Boyce posted:

What about a using a Caboose Industries ground throw?   You have easy access to this area.   Nice to see your track work is almost finished.

Cheers, Dave

Dave, thank you for asking.  I have some Caboose Industries ground throws.  They work great.  This location has very easy access when I am in the aisle outside the loop.  So far I have been operating mostly from inside the loop.  I took this photograph holding the camera up high to try to get a better view. 

The switch in question is on the right in front of the enginehouse that I sat back against the backdrop for the time being.  Looking forward from there you can see a 24"x24" section of Mianne benchwork with both levels of track visible.  Then in front of that is a temporary narrower section of plywood with two risers supporting the high line with a steam engine on it.  That lift out section will be replaced with two lift up bridges, power stopping interlocks, and a manual latch.  I would prefer manual switches for less wiring, but regardless of which side of the lift up I am on when operating, I will be on the wrong side for some switch maneuvers.  I am thinking I am going to need to be able to operate some switches from either side of the lift up. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Dave, thank you for asking.  I have some Caboose Industries ground throws.  They work great.  This location has very easy access when I am in the aisle outside the loop.  So far I have been operating mostly from inside the loop.  I took this photograph holding the camera up high to try to get a better view.

The switch in question is on the right in front of the enginehouse that I sat back against the backdrop for the time being.  Looking forward from there you can see a 24"x24" section of Mianne benchwork with both levels of track visible.  Then in front of that is a temporary narrower section of plywood with two risers supporting the high line with a steam engine on it.  That lift out section will be replaced with two lift up bridges, power stopping interlocks, and a manual latch.  I would prefer manual switches for less wiring, but regardless of which side of the lift up I am on when operating, I will be on the wrong side for some switch maneuvers.  I am thinking I am going to need to be able to operate some switches from either side of the lift up.

Mark, another manual option for the Y switch would be to use GOLD-N-ROD control rod set, Nylon #504.   This set comes with a tube & rod that will reach 48".   The main use is probably RC airplanes controls but it is easily adapted to most anything the needs a remote push or pull.   I used this system on my first HO layout to transfer motion of a ground throw or Tortoise switch machine.     Check it out.

Cheers, Dave

Dave, I found it.  Thank you.  Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like a bendable system like used for hand brakes on a bicycle.  They certainly are inexpensive!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Dave, I found it.  Thank you.  Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like a bendable system like used for hand brakes on a bicycle.  They certainly are inexpensive!!

Yes, very flexible.  There is a yellow nylon core that slides inside the red tube.   It would need to be curved and positioned so that the system ends up perpendicular to the switch and parallel to the ties.   It needs to push and pull the switch bar to align the switch points.  The system could also be hidden under the table.   A pin attached to the yellow core would extend up through a hole, much the same as the wire throw on a Tortoise switch machine.   You could activate it using a Caboose Ind. ground throw on the other end.   I sent Mike G some of the slides I used on my HO layout.   You may want to ask him about the system.   I believe he used the system on a switch that had a clearance problem.   I can send you a short piece of wire/pin that would be good to activate the switch.

Note the diagram:   You can't see the yellow slide bar but the wire pin is attached through the yellow slide.   A slot is cut in the red tube to allow the yellow slide to move the pin back and forth.   Look closely at the bottom tube in the diagram you can see it.   Note I activated the slide with a Tortoise switch machine, but a ground throw would work just the same.   The machine or ground throw could be located up to 4' from the switch.      

Good Luck!

Cheers, Dave

Dave, Thank you!

Mark, great progress, and some very good suggestions for your switch issue. I had a similar issue with a switch in my main yard and the storage tracks underneath. I had low clearance like you, but I was able to use a Tortoise switch motor in an offset capacity similar to what Dave suggested. I’ll post a few pictures tomorrow.

Andy

Andy, Thank you very much!

Mark this Tortoise switch operates a switch that is 16” away in my yard. I installed this with 6” of height to work with. I couldn’t mount the switch normally because I have staging tracks directly below the switch. If you’re interested, I can locate a YouTube video to walk you through step by step. If I can do this with my ham hands, and carpal tunnel in both, I know you can too!

Mark---where did you find the source for the rod? Ive looked many places with no avail, I would certainely like to try that system.

@Lyle posted:

Mark---where did you find the source for the rod? Ive looked many places with no avail, I would certainely like to try that system.

GOLD-N-ROD control rod set, Nylon #504.

LINK:  https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gol...amp;ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Available at most hobby shops that cater to rc airplanes.

Thanks for all the information guys! just ordered some to have if I need them in the future! LOL

Wow, this took off while I was offline!!    Thank you everyone for all the great comments.  Andy, the Tortoise installation looks great under the table and above.  The Atlas track really looks nice as well.  I can appreciate your comment, since I know about carpal tunnel.  I have had carpal tunnel surgery twice on each hand!  Both were done in 1995 and both again in 2015.

Thank you Dave for sharing that link!  It looks like Lyle and Mike benefited as did I! 

So Friday evening, I was finishing up the last of my track install and making some permanent power connections.  I got out a little box I had some GarGraves bumper posts in and made a discovery!  I did not think I had that much train stuff that I would find something I didn't know I had.  However, there in the box were two clear plastic bags, one with 5 DZ1000s and the other with 5 DZ push buttons.  I do not remember buying them, but assumed I bought them used since the wires and terminal covers were missing.  Today, I opened the bags and saw an index card saying 'Thanks' and someone's name.  I found that name in my PayPal contacts, but PayPal seems to only let me search back for transactions this year and last.  I must have had them since 2018.  Here I bought more and never knew I had these 5. 

So, I'll change the topic title since the track is all installed.  Permanent wiring has begun.  Also a note on the switch operating discussion.  I already had received a DZ2500 by the time Dave first mentioned the Gold N Rods.  I decided to fasten it down, since I have it and decide later if I'll actually use it.  It would work in this application, but I agree the Caboose Industries ground throws and the Tortoise installations look much better.  The wires aren't connected as you can actually see the ends of some of them peaking out from under the engine house.

As to height clearance in the yard, I have just a smidgeon over 1 1/2 inches between the roofwalk of this car and the plywood.  Of course as shown by Andy, the switch machine could be mounted off to the side somewhere.  Man, that does look good Andy!

Well, things to ponder and perhaps more stuff to offer for sale besides some GarGraves and Ross 042, 054, and 064 track and some switches.  I'll keep the track for a while and see how I like things and if I want to make changes.

Mark- I think we all suffer from "Oh! I forgot I bought that!" once and a while. At least it's something that you need right now.

Bob

Bob, Actually, I bought a couple extra a few weeks ago, so that I have DZ1000/2500 on all 13 of my switches.  So all 5 that I found are extras!  As they say, 'Timing is everything!' 

Thanks for the update, Mark.

Keep that knee moving! 

Keep it going Mark really looking good. Try swapping that switch machine to the opposite side away from the engine house looks like you may have enough room there.

Thank you, RT!  I was just stretching the knee a few minutes ago. 

I just noticed that I forgot to attach the photograph showing the overhead clearance of cars in the yard.  I added the photograph in my first post today.

Rick, The ties on the wye switch are 9/16" longer on that side.  I was already looking at it and can do that if I rig up a longer linkage than the options that came with the DZ2500.  The DZ2500 is short enough to fit in there nicely before the ties that are 9/16" longer yet.  Here is an overhead photograph I already posted when I had the longer DZ1000 installed.  It is easier to see the difference in length of ties on the other side of the switch.  The stuff I never think of until it is staring me in the face!! 

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- I think we all suffer from "Oh! I forgot I bought that!" once and a while. At least it's something that you need right now.

Bob

Mark and Bob; I cannot count on all my fingers and toes how many times I bought something and forget I had it. The worst I think was when I bought a set of RailKing N&W Passengers cars and got home and was putting them under the platform and found the exact same set, same cars names and everything. I am a big cabin car guy and now I have to record the car number to mark sure I don't repeat and acquire a second of the same number.

Great find Mark! Always a nice surprise to find something you didn’t know you had. Glad to show another option, great information by all. The area is coming together nicely.

Andy

Wow, it has been a while since I did anything noteworthy on the layout.  I finished the outdoor fall work and my portion of my wife's Christmas decorating, so I worked on two backboards for my permanent wiring.  I plan to hang the TIU and MTH terminal blocks on one side and whatever I put up for switch control and other things on the other side.  The shelf provides space for my Z4000 and TMCC controller.  By splitting the 24"x24" area in half, I can be within about 13" of everything I'm doing.  That is much needed with my farsightedness.  I got out the old trifocals this week.    This is one side of the place for the lift up bridges.

On the other side of the chasm the bridges will cross, there is a nice 4-foot long area of Mianne benchwork that would be good for shelves for engines and cars.  I just had enough 1x2 stock to make a frame to attach the 2 foot x 4 foot section of plywood and provide braces on the backside to attach four aluminum shelves I bought from Alan Dechant (aka MrTrain) from nearby Knox, Pennsylvania.  I first thought of painting the plywood white to show off the shelved trains, but then thought it might be nice to use the same light blue I used to paint the walls.  There is a wall across the aisle painted that shade as one enters the train room.

With that I have finished the carpentry work until I think of something else, so I moved some of those tools back to the garage.  It is a little less crowded now in an 11x11 room with an 8x11 walk-in layout with an 30"x30" extension in one corner. 

Mark, I like the wye. How much space is taken up from the entrance out?

Thanks

Jay

Jay, thank you for asking.  I'm not exactly sure what dimension you are referring to, so I'll post a couple screenshots of the SCARM plan.  First the whole plan with the lower level yard tracks and one siding not shown.

This one may tell you what you are asking.  The numbers on the top and left side are in inches.  So left to right the switch off the main line starts at roughly 72 inches and the end of the wye in front of the engine house is about 114 inches.  So that dimension is roughly 42 inches.  If you mean from the closer switch which is about 92 inches to the same point in front of the engine house 114 inches, then the distance is 22 inches.  If this doesn't answer the question, please let me know.

I'll have to update the SCARM file for the yard and siding I added after the last drawing.

Thank you Mark. I’m still mulling my engine facilities since they do devour a lot of real estate. But, I really like what you did there. You have the facility and the turn around too.

Things sure are looking nice. At the Blackwater railway! Keep up the wonderful work and post Mark. It really helps the rest of us keep going!

Thank you, Jay and Mike!!

I wasn't going to put an engine service area in until I received an offer to buy the engine house.  Based on its measurements, it could go a couple places, so I bought it.  Then once I had it, it got me thinking.  It's kind of the same with the little yard below.  It will really serve as a staging yard so to speak.  Who would have thought I could fit it all in?

Mike, I sure hope the doctors and Mrs G will be able to let you back to the work on the layout soon.  When you are able to work on your layout it keeps me going!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Wow, it has been a while since I did anything noteworthy on the layout.  I finished the outdoor fall work and my portion of my wife's Christmas decorating, so I worked on two backboards for my permanent wiring.  I plan to hang the TIU and MTH terminal blocks on one side and whatever I put up for switch control and other things on the other side.  The shelf provides space for my Z4000 and TMCC controller.  By splitting the 24"x24" area in half, I can be within about 13" of everything I'm doing.  That is much needed with my farsightedness.  I got out the old trifocals this week.    This is one side of the place for the lift up bridges.

On the other side of the chasm the bridges will cross, there is a nice 4-foot long area of Mianne benchwork that would be good for shelves for engines and cars.  I just had enough 1x2 stock to make a frame to attach the 2 foot x 4 foot section of plywood and provide braces on the backside to attach four aluminum shelves I bought from Alan Dechant (aka MrTrain) from nearby Knox, Pennsylvania.  I first thought of painting the plywood white to show off the shelved trains, but then thought it might be nice to use the same light blue I used to paint the walls.  There is a wall across the aisle painted that shade as one enters the train room.

With that I have finished the carpentry work until I think of something else, so I moved some of those tools back to the garage.  It is a little less crowded now in an 11x11 room with an 8x11 walk-in layout with an 30"x30" extension in one corner. 

Nice Work Mark!  Great ideas with the electrical center and having display shelves. Looking forward to how you wire the layout.

Holy crap bananas Mark! It has been way too long since my eyes got in here last time, mid October dang it. I like the progress, scratch that, love the progress since then.

I got to apologise for taking this long to get back in here. Work has been nuts and with me following more people and topics than what I am normally used to, somehow this got off the radar. Well, fixed that now. Following you so I hopefully won't get lost.

I really love everything going on, and the dimensions are just about around what I am thinking on the back bedroom I want to work on. I've got to make time(know any clockmakers) and get back on the design phase on that. I had only popped two ovals and hadn't had time to get back in there. I'll have to message you later on either this week or next depending on what craziness ensues here. P.S., watch out for the snow. Coming down here sideways with some wind. Not going to work good for me as I have to go back out in it. Maybe I'll think of Some Like It Hot when the fellas are skipping to the train to get out of Chicago.

@Aegis21 posted:

Nice Work Mark!  Great ideas with the electrical center and having display shelves. Looking forward to how you wire the layout.

Thank you, John!!  Yes, I have all the wires connected to each insulated track section and pulled back to the "nerve center".  I'll definitely describe what I am doing when I start mounting everything anc terminating wires.  I'll be looking for someone to catch me on the way and suggest a better way since I will be using all products I never used before. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, John!!  Yes, I have all the wires connected to each insulated track section and pulled back to the "nerve center".  I'll definitely describe what I am doing when I start mounting everything anc terminating wires.  I'll be looking for someone to catch me on the way and suggest a better way since I will be using all products I never used before. 

Mark, the layout looks awesome!  The part where wires are getting pulled is my least favorite.  I was doing plenty of crawling around on my hands and knees on the concrete floor last weekend.  I'm not "old" in the "model railroader" sense, but I'm definitely feeling that concrete floor for a couple days after.  And I still have lots to do.

Jeff

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Holy crap bananas Mark! It has been way too long since my eyes got in here last time, mid October dang it. I like the progress, scratch that, love the progress since then.

I got to apologise for taking this long to get back in here. Work has been nuts and with me following more people and topics than what I am normally used to, somehow this got off the radar. Well, fixed that now. Following you so I hopefully won't get lost.

I really love everything going on, and the dimensions are just about around what I am thinking on the back bedroom I want to work on. I've got to make time(know any clockmakers) and get back on the design phase on that. I had only popped two ovals and hadn't had time to get back in there. I'll have to message you later on either this week or next depending on what craziness ensues here. P.S., watch out for the snow. Coming down here sideways with some wind. Not going to work good for me as I have to go back out in it. Maybe I'll think of Some Like It Hot when the fellas are skipping to the train to get out of Chicago.

Dave, I'm glad you found your way back to Blackwater Canyon! 

Yes, while the room was actually built only to support the sunroom above, it is the typical size and shape as a lot of bedrooms.  That is a thought for me as we could possibly relocate to a single level home, I could take this layout apart and move it to a bedroom.  Or I could just save the buildings, track, and do something else.

The forecast is for the bulk of the snow to stay north of I-80, and we are just a little south of The Keystone Shortway.  Most of the lake effect snow from Lake Erie doesn't bother us, but it really pounds Erie, Pennsylvania.  We did get hit with some early snow last week.  That first wet snowfall really tested my small, old snowblower.  It doesn't have enough power to handle a lot of the wet stuff.  I was going to buy a new one before I retired, but the phone company beat me to that one.   Maybe I shouldn't have bought that last O-gauge engine and bought a snowblower instead.  Nah!     

@Jeff_the_Coaster_Guy posted:

Mark, the layout looks awesome!  The part where wires are getting pulled is my least favorite.  I was doing plenty of crawling around on my hands and knees on the concrete floor last weekend.  I'm not "old" in the "model railroader" sense, but I'm definitely feeling that concrete floor for a couple days after.  And I still have lots to do.

Jeff

Jeff, Thank you!!!   I bought a new adjustable roll around stool with a nice padded seat this past summer.  I sat on it pulling all the wire.  I did have to twist my neck and use my reading glasses, bifocals, and even got out my old trifocals from before my cataract surgeries; and still sometimes I was going by touch more than sight.  Those Wago connectors with the lever action were a really good thing when I couldn't get the right lens and focal length to see well enough to make a connection!    Now I can sit on the stool with my regular glasses and do the work on my double sided board! 

With losing weight in 2012 I am always sore in the keister.  No padding at all.  With one knee replaced last year, I can only kneel on one knee, and I don't want to blow it out either.  I had trouble in the attic getting Christmas decorations out.  The rolling seat isn't low enough, so I am thinking of finding a small padded creeper to sit on and just leave up there.  My wife has two fake knees, so she can't kneel either.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Dave, I'm glad you found your way back to Blackwater Canyon!

   Maybe I shouldn't have bought that last O-gauge engine and bought a snowblower instead.  Nah!     

Mark, here's the thing: snow melts all by itself .......[finally]

BTW, I love the engine house. Funny how frequently it comes a matter of inches or even one inch to make something work. I really wanted to stretch a siding making room for one more spot. By using a short curve section I added a bit of length while avoiding cars crashing into the wall....and its all good.

Don't worry Mark, down the road I am going to try and scratch build an o gauge snow blower!

I will let you know how that goes. But then again the snow might be melted by then!

Mark, here are a couple pics of making-it-fit on the PER. Not nearly as finicky as you getting the engine house, it's tracks and the necessary track switches to fit and work but the same idea:

Room a bit too small? Pshaw! Just pretzel it until it does fit.

@geysergazer posted:

Mark, here's the thing: snow melts all by itself .......[finally]

BTW, I love the engine house. Funny how frequently it comes a matter of inches or even one inch to make something work. I really wanted to stretch a siding making room for one more spot. By using a short curve section I added a bit of length while avoiding cars crashing into the wall....and its all good.

Lew, Tell my mother-in-law!    If I do her snow, I might as well do ours.  She doesn't even drive, and if I walk over with the snowblower, I can certainly carry her mail in.

The software helps get started, but trying things out helps you and me both figure out how we can gain a bit more action out of a relatively small space.  Of course those great looking switchers of yours really helps!!!  The wall is the ultimate bumper post!!  None of my engines will roll off the table if I don't kill power.  Now, I do need to add interlocks to keep them from rolling intot he gorge if the bridge isn't in place!! 

@mike g. posted:

Don't worry Mark, down the road I am going to try and scratch build an o gauge snow blower!

I will let you know how that goes. But then again the snow might be melted by then!

That sounds like a plan, Mike!!!