Mark,

I like your control station/train storage area.  That is a great use of that space and very functional!  It was neat seeing your entire layout in SCARM.  I have seen pictures of your layout but not the entire thing from an overhead view.  Very cool.  By the way, an O Gauge engine is a much better purchase than a new snow blower.......at least it's a lot more fun !

Michael

Thank you, Michael, Yes indeed, the engine is a lot more fun!!    Keep in mind the SCARM plan dies not have the yard switches and tracks under the enginehouse of an additional siding on the lower level.  I'll have to add them.

Ahh yes, now that you mention it I did forget you don't have those extra tracks on the SCARM plan yet.

For now, it is easy to imagine.  Sort of underneath the overpass a switch comes off the mainline and 2 more switches are underneath the wye and engine house with the shortest track in the back.  Around the curve past the underpass is a switch with a track going under the underpass and leads to a long siding near the aisle in the section of the layout at the top of the drawing.  I'll try to work on that today and post.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Lew, Tell my mother-in-law!    If I do her snow, I might as well do ours.  She doesn't even drive, and if I walk over with the snowblower, I can certainly carry her mail in.

The software helps get started, but trying things out helps you and me both figure out how we can gain a bit more action out of a relatively small space.  Of course those great looking switchers of yours really helps!!!  The wall is the ultimate bumper post!!  None of my engines will roll off the table if I don't kill power.  Now, I do need to add interlocks to keep them from rolling intot he gorge if the bridge isn't in place!! 

I'm with Lew on this. Think of the Godfather, "Leave the gun, take the cannolli." So, "Leave the snowblower, buy the engine." The other thing is you could always get young lads to shovel snow from somewhere, maybe a nearby school has one of those "rent" programs to raise money for the school. There's always those options. With your very nice guy attitude, I doubt that it would be impossible for someone to help with the snow. Oh, another option which don't know how rural it is by you would be if there was a farmer around. If there are the ones with equipment to do so like by me, you could always get a favor that way.

Waiting for future updates, see what comes. Time to get back to work, good thing it is nice outside, don't need the coat, and won't feel like the express trains during winter months with icy weather blowing in faces when out and about.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I'm with Lew on this. Think of the Godfather, "Leave the gun, take the cannoli." So, "Leave the snowblower, buy the engine." The other thing is you could always get young lads to shovel snow from somewhere, maybe a nearby school has one of those "rent" programs to raise money for the school. There's always those options. With your very nice guy attitude, I doubt that it would be impossible for someone to help with the snow. Oh, another option which don't know how rural it is by you would be if there was a farmer around. If there are the ones with equipment to do so like by me, you could always get a favor that way.

Waiting for future updates, see what comes. Time to get back to work, good thing it is nice outside, don't need the coat, and won't feel like the express trains during winter months with icy weather blowing in faces when out and about.

LOL Dave and Lew!!!!!!!!!!

The option for me would be to ask one of the deacons from our church to get one of the high school or college boys stuck at home taking classes on line to take care of it.  When I had my carpal tunnel surgeries, one of the deacons asked if I needed that kind of help knowing our daughters were away in college.  In the past my mother-in-law was spoiled by the son-in-law of her neighbor who would bring his plow over to do his mother-in-law's and my mother-in-law's after he was done plowing his bowling alley parking lot.  The neighbor lady is now in a nursing home, and the house is up for sale.  Mum was expecting him to come over anyway.  Why????  When he didn't come, even though it was still snowing hard, she flipped out.    Actually it is normally not a problem with that machine, especially now that I am retired.  It is only those snows at 32 degrees that make it a little more of a hassle.

Back to the layout.  I got one hole cut in the backboard for passing the power cords through yesterday.  That's it, before I was "called away."  Not worth a photograph.  So Lew, I "haven't done a bloody thing all day!" 

Friday I painted the layout front panel entering the room the same light blue I used to paint the room walls.  When two coats were dry, I mounted the MrTrain (Alan Dechant) shelves.  I started mounting them closer together, but discovered I had trouble getting my hands in for a firm grip on the scale engines.  I wound up placing the shelves 6 1/4" apart.  I had to repaint where I had changed my mind for mounting holes.  I like how it turned out.  I won't mount any shelves closer to the floor, because it is too far down to lift properly.  The layout top edge covers the shelves edge, so I shouldn't have to worry about dropping something on them.  I still want to install a fascia board for a cleaner look and a little more protection.  The edge is 27" from the wall, so I couldn't get a straight on photograph of the whole set of shelves.

Saturday and Sunday I mounted my TIU, two MTH 24-port terminal strips, and two PSX-1AC solid state circuit breakers.  Before mounting to the plywood, I connected the TIU fixed outputs to the PSX-1AC and put a short circuit on the output.  The voltmeter on the output showed the solid state circuit breaker tripped before the Z4000 breaker tripped.  When I removed the short circuit, output voltage was restored.  The top terminal strip is for TIU fixed output 1 which feeds the mainline blocks.  I tested each block with an engine as I connected each.  The bottom Terminal strip will be TIU fixed output 2 and feed all sidings.  I still need to get some switches so I can turn off power to any siding and leave the others powered.  Actually I haven't decided what switches to get or how I will make a panel to mount them.  The wires to the track are only loosely bound so I can add the rest of the feeders.  Please ignore the crooked devices.  I can't seem to do anything straight any more. 

Thank you for looking!!

Coming along nicely! 

Thank you, Marty!!

Mark,

You're really making some good progress these days.  Your shelving looks great.  That's a nice way of storing/displaying all those beautiful locomotives!  Your control station is very nice as well.  It is nice to have everything in one place that's easily accessible.  I noticed that you are using the PSX-1AC circuit breakers.  I have heard about them, but hadn't thought much about using them or any additional circuit protection on my layout other than what is built into the Z4000 and the TIU after reading Barry's book.  I know this has been discussed quite extensively on this forum and I don't want to derail your topic.  Just wondering now if I should invest in them on my layout.  What has been your experience and what led you to include them in your setup?

Keep up the great work!  You'll be ready for serious scenery in no time.

Michael     

Thank you, Michael!  I have not experienced any disastrous incidents.  At first my understanding was that you needed surge protection on the outputs of ZWs when running engines with modern electronics. Then I read about using TVSs on even Modern transformers/power packs.  Later I read of someone on the Forum who recommended the PSX-1AC.  I wish I remember who it was to give credit.  It may be that it is overkill, but my 43 years experience in the power and telecommunications industries ingrained double protection into my brain.

I can’t wait to getting started building scenery.  👍🏻

For the price per protection, this is not costly at all. Good choice Mark

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you for looking!!

Ah yes, the wiring...  The 800-pound gorilla in the room.  Great work so far Mark.

Looks good Mark. I can see the telcom technician in you coming out.

Love to see the progress Mark! Gets me motivated to put more effort into my layout.

I especially like how you mounted all your controls. I think I would like to do something similar.

Thank you John, Kevin, Bob, Bill!

Yes the 800 pound gorilla!    Bob, too bad they don't have punch down blocks that will handle #12 wire!!  You would think I should know what I am doing, but as I move forward I think of things I need to do that I hadn't thought of and have to decide how to approach it.  I forgot about buying switches for the sidings that I want to be able to turn off individually.  I also haven't thought through or found a method online, in photographs or videos, of raising the bridges or even what kind of bridges to use.  Also, the power interlock needs to be taken care of.  I have seen lots of methods, but haven't decided which method to use so I can buy hinges, switches, etc.  I have two bridges here that would look good stationary, but I don't think either would work well in a lift up mechanism.  I am starting to lean towards just using two different boards and work out all the mechanical and electrical issues, then figure out what style bridge would work well and look good.  Kind of like my decision to use the inexpensive plastic timber piers for my elevated area and come up with a better looking method later.

Yes Bill, seeing what others are doing helps get me motivated too!

Mark that really looks great I love how you set up your control panel, giving me some ideas. I am still chasing that 800 pound gorilla, it is kinda of intimidating me right now. I have an idea what and how I want to do it but keep looking for excuses to not start building my control panel. Could I interest  you in building it I have all the wire a wheeled cart and I "THINK" everything else, except a couple of rotary switches for the turntable whisker tracks and switches for my sidings.LOL . Really nice work your electrical/telecomm back ground is showing in all the nice and neat way you have assembled everything.

Mark tell me more about this PSX-1AC Breaker arrangement you are using? Just looking at them on line and sounds interesting?

Mark,  for the siding switches I have been happy with a simple rocker switch. Twidec KCD1-2-101-X-H about a $1 each in packs of ten. They are not lit but it would be easy to add LEDs which have the rectifier such as the Evans Design units. I like the round design, because I only have to drill a hole and insert (well there is a touch of a file for the indexing key). 

While I wish I did not have to have lift outs in my layout, of my three bridges, the MTH is on a door hinge "swing out" and the other two are lift outs. All three have soldered rail connections and banana plugs so I can completely remove the bridges as needed. Unfortunately in an emergency, I have to "dive under" the 3 bridges, it takes too long to move the bridges. The only other thing I should do is install a microswitch to cut power when the bridges are removed. I have had a few close calls forgetting one bridge was not in place when I decided to run a train.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you John, Kevin, Bob, Bill!

Yes the 800 pound gorilla!    Bob, too bad they don't have punch down blocks that will handle #12 wire!!  You would think I should know what I am doing, but as I move forward I think of things I need to do that I hadn't thought of and have to decide how to approach it.  I forgot about buying switches for the sidings that I want to be able to turn off individually.  I also haven't thought through or found a method online, in photographs or videos, of raising the bridges or even what kind of bridges to use.  Also, the power interlock needs to be taken care of.  I have seen lots of methods, but haven't decided which method to use so I can buy hinges, switches, etc.  I have two bridges here that would look good stationary, but I don't think either would work well in a lift up mechanism.  I am starting to lean towards just using two different boards and work out all the mechanical and electrical issues, then figure out what style bridge would work well and look good.  Kind of like my decision to use the inexpensive plastic timber piers for my elevated area and come up with a better looking method later.

Yes Bill, seeing what others are doing helps get me motivated too!

Mark- I used these switches for sidings and blocks.  The leads are already soldered to the terminals so they are easy to wire up. Lot's of similar options if you want illuminated, or DPST, etc.

Bob

Mark:  You have moved light years forward from 4 years ago.  Congratulations.

Rick, Jeff, Bob, John, Thank you!

Rick, I'll get back to you on the PSX-1AC Breaker tomorrow.  I can send you the scoop.  I missed seeing your question while looking on the phone and just saw it now.

Jeff and Bob, those are both good examples of something to buy.  I like the pre-soldered wires.  I can do it, but not as good as I once did.  I don't need indicator lights, I would rather keep things as simple as possible.  Less to go wrong. 

Jeff, I am tempted to leave my temporary lift out in place ans if my roller seat is there I can sit on it and roll under.  If I duck under, I invariably catch my back on the edge and need to check alignment.

John, Yes 4 years in less than a month.  Hard to believe it has been that long, but we certainly covered a lot of ground in those 4 years!  After all the changes, Blackwater Canyon Line is still the concept.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Michael!  I have not experienced any disastrous incidents.  At first my understanding was that you needed surge protection on the outputs of ZWs when running engines with modern electronics. Then I read about using TVSs on even Modern transformers/power packs.  Later I read of someone on the Forum who recommended the PSX-1AC.  I wish I remember who it was to give credit.  It may be that it is overkill, but my 43 years experience in the power and telecommunications industries ingrained double protection into my brain.

I can’t wait to getting started building scenery.  👍🏻

Mark, thanks for the info on the PSX-AC's.  I have been reading up on them.  Do you have yours between the TIU outputs and the terminal blocks?  If so, do they cause any DCS signal loss?  I have read that can be a problem.  I see some people put them between the transformer and the TIU inputs to eliminate signal loss.  I would love to hear your thoughts on this.  I'm considering possibly getting some for my layout.  Thanks.

Michael

Wow Mark, that is a beautiful wiring job! Nice, neat, and clean.  Very impressive'...🎅🏻 ☑

Great work on the wiring! I feel your struggles with the dual bridges at different heights. Especially the lower bridge. You are doing great and I wish this pandemic wasn't so bad right now, I'd love to help if I could. I am sure I would learn much more than I would help.

Thank you Michael, Ted, and John!!

Michael, you brought up an interesting point about having the the PSX-1AC after the TIU could degrade the signal.  I hadn't thought of it, but it is a good point.  I tested with the PSX-1AC removed from the circuit and in the circuit after the TIU as I had wired.  I read a signal level of 10 in both situations.  I ran an engine again in both situations, and didn't see a difference.  However, since my layout is small a difference may not be noticed.

I did some searching for information on the PSX-1AC for both this situation and a description for Rick.  Why is it that Google finds the best information for us on none other than the OGR Forum??!!    Here is a video that Gary (superwarp1) put on YouTube in 2012 and referred to in this November 2017 topic circuit-breakers-not-tripping-fast-enough.  He gives a nice rundown on the PSX and says what Michael referred to about the signal being possibly degraded if it is installed like I did between the TIU and track.  I think I will swap the wires around and put the PSX-1ACs between the Z4000 and TIU.

As to the wiring.  Thank you for the compliments.  I was actually thinking it is kind of messy because I am using up some #12 that is more flexible than the new rolls of #12, both stranded of course.  With this small number of feeds on a small layout it isn't a big deal.

As an aside, (if you don't want to read war stories skip to the next paragraph.)  The first half of my 43 years working were mostly with a power company in Virginia.  I served as an unofficial field engineer for circuit protection and control in the substations.  The older panels we had (early 1960's and before) were shear works of art, with all the wires perfectly in order and fanning out in different directions, laced up with waxed string perfectly.  By the time I started working in 1976, the electricians were using plastic cable ties, but everything was neat as a pin, perfectly spaced leading to terminal blocks.  Occasionally we wired something in or moved something, and I had excellent examples to follow to make things easy.  When I started in Telecom in 1997, the wiring and fiber optics were neat in the central offices, but out at customer locations it was a crap shoot.  One customer location in the far northern Pittsburgh suburbs was so bad that overloaded wall mounted wire racks had pulled away from the walls and some were laying on the floor.  Of course our demarc for the circuit I had to test was in a corner and the customer told me to just tramp on everything to get there!!    I was sure I was going to take down his data center!!  I found a power strip back there that had power cords for his ethernet switches or routers that were half pulled out!!  I was able to get enough slack to push them in tight, and I got my testing done without pulling anything loose to my knowledge.  What a nightmare!  I was glad to move to network engineering for my last 10 years and not have to delve into literal rats nests any more! 

John, I know what you mean about the pandemic messing with us.  We are both retired and could help each other now and then, but the way it is right now we are taking the advantage of staying home as much as possible.  I would hate to catch it and give it to my high risk wife or my mother-in-law when I drop off groceries of stop in to fix something.

Mark Thank you for finding and posting the video I found interesting and enlightening. I think I may have to look into picking up several of the PSX-1AC Breakers. I am currently using a Z4000 but am thinking about using a PW ZW for sidings and whisker tracks off the TT thru the Variable side of the TIU as I have several PS!1 and conventional locomotives that I will be running.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Michael, Ted, and John!!

Michael, you brought up an interesting point about having the the PSX-1AC after the TIU could degrade the signal.  I hadn't thought of it, but it is a good point.  I tested with the PSX-1AC removed from the circuit and in the circuit after the TIU as I had wired.  I read a signal level of 10 in both situations.  I ran an engine again in both situations, and didn't see a difference.  However, since my layout is small a difference may not be noticed.

I did some searching for information on the PSX-1AC for both this situation and a description for Rick.  Why is it that Google finds the best information for us on none other than the OGR Forum??!!    Here is a video that Gary (superwarp1) put on YouTube in 2012 and referred to in this November 2017 topic circuit-breakers-not-tripping-fast-enough.  He gives a nice rundown on the PSX and says what Michael referred to about the signal being possibly degraded if it is installed like I did between the TIU and track.  I think I will swap the wires around and put the PSX-1ACs between the Z4000 and TIU.

As to the wiring.  Thank you for the compliments.  I was actually thinking it is kind of messy because I am using up some #12 that is more flexible than the new rolls of #12, both stranded of course.  With this small number of feeds on a small layout it isn't a big deal.

As an aside, (if you don't want to read war stories skip to the next paragraph.)  The first half of my 43 years working were mostly with a power company in Virginia.  I served as an unofficial field engineer for circuit protection and control in the substations.  The older panels we had (early 1960's and before) were shear works of art, with all the wires perfectly in order and fanning out in different directions, laced up with waxed string perfectly.  By the time I started working in 1976, the electricians were using plastic cable ties, but everything was neat as a pin, perfectly spaced leading to terminal blocks.  Occasionally we wired something in or moved something, and I had excellent examples to follow to make things easy.  When I started in Telecom in 1997, the wiring and fiber optics were neat in the central offices, but out at customer locations it was a crap shoot.  One customer location in the far northern Pittsburgh suburbs was so bad that overloaded wall mounted wire racks had pulled away from the walls and some were laying on the floor.  Of course our demarc for the circuit I had to test was in a corner and the customer told me to just tramp on everything to get there!!    I was sure I was going to take down his data center!!  I found a power strip back there that had power cords for his ethernet switches or routers that were half pulled out!!  I was able to get enough slack to push them in tight, and I got my testing done without pulling anything loose to my knowledge.  What a nightmare!  I was glad to move to network engineering for my last 10 years and not have to delve into literal rats nests any more! 

John, I know what you mean about the pandemic messing with us.  We are both retired and could help each other now and then, but the way it is right now we are taking the advantage of staying home as much as possible.  I would hate to catch it and give it to my high risk wife or my mother-in-law when I drop off groceries of stop in to fix something.

Just adding this into the mix for circuit protection. I am hopping to use these between tiu and track. Does anyone know the max. output of the tiu? Is it greater than 7.5 amps? These are super quick trip

NIB AIRPAX 7.5 AMP AC BREAKER, T21-61-7.50A-22627-2-V W/TOGGLE

Rick, I'm glad I was able to find it for you.  I don't intend to hook up an audio indication to mine.  So far I left mine set at 4 amps.  I wanted to see how it worked out then I'll jumper to 8.4 amps like Gary did.

That brings us to John's question.  Before supper, I was looking it up.  I think the output max of the TIU is 10 Amps per output, but didn't find it in writing.  The most I have had was 5.x amps with two 4-motor engines and a bunch of lit passenger cars.  I just came in from snow blowing and shoveling for a break and to shed my coveralls.  I would look farther, but I need to go over to my mother-in-law's and clear a path to her mailbox and take her garbage can out.  The 7.5 breaker is right in the ballpark with the 8.4 amp setting on the PSX.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you Michael, Ted, and John!!

Michael, you brought up an interesting point about having the the PSX-1AC after the TIU could degrade the signal.  I hadn't thought of it, but it is a good point.  I tested with the PSX-1AC removed from the circuit and in the circuit after the TIU as I had wired.  I read a signal level of 10 in both situations.  I ran an engine again in both situations, and didn't see a difference.  However, since my layout is small a difference may not be noticed.

I did some searching for information on the PSX-1AC for both this situation and a description for Rick.  Why is it that Google finds the best information for us on none other than the OGR Forum??!!    Here is a video that Gary (superwarp1) put on YouTube in 2012 and referred to in this November 2017 topic circuit-breakers-not-tripping-fast-enough.  He gives a nice rundown on the PSX and says what Michael referred to about the signal being possibly degraded if it is installed like I did between the TIU and track.  I think I will swap the wires around and put the PSX-1ACs between the Z4000 and TIU.

As to the wiring.  Thank you for the compliments.  I was actually thinking it is kind of messy because I am using up some #12 that is more flexible than the new rolls of #12, both stranded of course.  With this small number of feeds on a small layout it isn't a big deal.

As an aside, (if you don't want to read war stories skip to the next paragraph.)  The first half of my 43 years working were mostly with a power company in Virginia.  I served as an unofficial field engineer for circuit protection and control in the substations.  The older panels we had (early 1960's and before) were shear works of art, with all the wires perfectly in order and fanning out in different directions, laced up with waxed string perfectly.  By the time I started working in 1976, the electricians were using plastic cable ties, but everything was neat as a pin, perfectly spaced leading to terminal blocks.  Occasionally we wired something in or moved something, and I had excellent examples to follow to make things easy.  When I started in Telecom in 1997, the wiring and fiber optics were neat in the central offices, but out at customer locations it was a crap shoot.  One customer location in the far northern Pittsburgh suburbs was so bad that overloaded wall mounted wire racks had pulled away from the walls and some were laying on the floor.  Of course our demarc for the circuit I had to test was in a corner and the customer told me to just tramp on everything to get there!!    I was sure I was going to take down his data center!!  I found a power strip back there that had power cords for his ethernet switches or routers that were half pulled out!!  I was able to get enough slack to push them in tight, and I got my testing done without pulling anything loose to my knowledge.  What a nightmare!  I was glad to move to network engineering for my last 10 years and not have to delve into literal rats nests any more! 

John, I know what you mean about the pandemic messing with us.  We are both retired and could help each other now and then, but the way it is right now we are taking the advantage of staying home as much as possible.  I would hate to catch it and give it to my high risk wife or my mother-in-law when I drop off groceries of stop in to fix something.

Mark, thanks for all the info on the PSX-1AC's!  I haven't had time to watch the video yet but will do so in the next day or so.  Do you use the manual reset buttons?  Hope you made out ok with all the snow.  We got mostly rain here.

Michael

You're welcome, Michael!  I did not put in a manual reset button.  The instructions that came with the PSX-1AC didn't mention it, unless I skipped over it.  With my tests, I only left the short on for a second or so.  After removing the short, it reset on it's own in a few seconds.  I'll have to hold a short on longer and see what happens.  I did manage to rewire it so the PSX-1AC is between the Z4000 and TIU, but haven't done any more testing.

There were 5 to 6 inches of snow on the ground while I was out snow blowing and shoveling the steps and sidewalk.  Another inch came down while I was working.  Looking out at 5:00 (I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep) there may be about 8 inches total.  I did fine.  It was a good workout for me. 

I ordered two bundles of ten of the Donjon switches Bob used.  The only deciding factor over Jeff's rocker switches was with the long handle, I will be able to tell if it is on or off by the position of the handle without wiring in an indicator light.  I know that so many modelers like to have indicator lights and it is a great idea.  I want to keep things as simple as possible.  After 43 years working in electronics it is more that I want to move on to something more fun than wiring. 

@Mark Boyce you will be done by Christmas, right?  LOL!  Interesting short protection.  I vaguely remember Gary's @superwarp1 video.

I woke up in the middle of the night and thought about Mark's circuit info here from a few days ago.  I decided I would ask some questions but it looks like those questions have already been addressed.  Thanks guys.

Good morning Mark, I am sorry I am a few days late, but thats me a day late and a dollar short! LOL

Things are really looking great and you sure have provided alot of information for the rest of us! I might have to switch out my breakers to the PSX-1AC. I haven't had any problems yet,but why look a gift horse in the mouth! Keep up the great work and I will try to keep up to date faster.

As for your bridge you could try my method, Let me know what you thinkas I have the drawings and other information you might need.

@MartyE posted:

@Mark Boyce you will be done by Christmas, right?  LOL!  Interesting short protection.  I vaguely remember Gary's @superwarp1 video.

Absolutely, Marty!  Even with snow removal at two houses!  LOL  How much did you get?  I measured 8 inches here in Butler.  I'm thinking by Channel 11's Steven Cropper's predictions, you may have gotten more.  I wish I could remember who else wrote about the PSX-1AC, that influenced me to buy them.  I don't think it was Gary, and it was definitely not as far back as 2017.  I should do a search for that topic, but that would interfere with getting this done by Christmas!!. 

Iron Horse, you are welcome!  Actually this is how I really thought through problems during my working days.  It was always someone who asked a question of me who got me digging in further, even when it was a guy I was supposed to be training.  Someone always asks the question I never think of!

Mike, Thank you!!  Once again your lift up bridge is fantastic!!  I have thought of it from time to time.  I saw someone do something similar on YouTube with the pivoting end of the track going down into the layout.  If I did that, I would have to have one switch lift left and the other right because switches for my two passing sidings come right up to the 'chasm'.  That's no big deal however.  I have been afraid yours is too mechanically complicated for me to pull off.  However, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me drawings and other documentation.  How long is your bridge and who manufactured it?  Thank you!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, Thank you!!  Once again your lift up bridge is fantastic!!  I have thought of it from time to time.  I saw someone do something similar on YouTube with the pivoting end of the track going down into the layout.  If I did that, I would have to have one switch lift left and the other right because switches for my two passing sidings come right up to the 'chasm'.  That's no big deal however.  I have been afraid yours is too mechanically complicated for me to pull off.  However, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me drawings and other documentation.  How long is your bridge and who manufactured it?  Thank you!

Hi Mark, The lift bridge is one of the things we could have worked on if not for covid. I did get all the hardware and will make my best attempt at it with the atlas 40" Pratt Truss bridge. Mike was gracious and of so obliging to send me the plans. With your situation on having one bridge lower presents some interesting challenges for sure. I am no where near even looking at how I will implement Mike's plans as I haven't gotten even one complete benchwork section done.

John, I will have to do some wood additions no matter what route I take and cut out the notch for the section of track to pivot down for something like Mike's plan.  That's not a big deal.  I have an Atlas bridge that is 24" long with a 32" section of track that would work well.  I bought it used and damaged.  I didn't realize from the photographs one section of the top of the truss is beyond help.  I also have the single track Menards through truss bridge.  It looks good, except it is so high it makes it look out of scale especially next to another bridge.  I may sell it.  Yes you are a long way off from implementing the lift up.  I could do it any time now, but don't have to until I really know what plan to use.  I can run with my lift out in the meantime.  As John C mentioned, it has been 4 years since I asked for help planning, and 1 year next month since I started construction on Plan D.  It is a good place to be.  The initial phases of construction are hard because everyone wants to start running trains, and it is tempting to take shortcuts that will be regretted later.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I will have to do some wood additions no matter what route I take and cut out the notch for the section of track to pivot down for something like Mike's plan.

The initial phases of construction are hard because everyone wants to start running trains, and it is tempting to take shortcuts that will be regretted later.

Amen to that! I am tempted everyday to say, yep it is good yet there are things that need working out. huge temptation!

I did get both PSX-1ACs moved to between the Z4000 and the TIU Fixed inputs.  I also pulled back the two pairs of wires that feed my Ceiling Central Railroad in the next room to where I can splice in longer wires.  I might as well connect them to the second output that I am going to put in switches to turn them off except when running trains on the Ceiling Central RR.  Maybe I should just pull new wire that will reach the whole distance and eliminate a splice under the layout.  That is probably a better way to go.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I did get both PSX-1ACs moved to between the Z4000 and the TIU Fixed inputs.  I also pulled back the two pairs of wires that feed my Ceiling Central Railroad in the next room to where I can splice in longer wires.  I might as well connect them to the second output that I am going to put in switches to turn them off except when running trains on the Ceiling Central RR.  Maybe I should just pull new wire that will reach the whole distance and eliminate a splice under the layout.  That is probably a better way to go.

Mark, If you have the wire lenght  to make a continugous run without splicing and it is not too difficult now to change, then that is the wise choice.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I did get both PSX-1ACs moved to between the Z4000 and the TIU Fixed inputs.  I also pulled back the two pairs of wires that feed my Ceiling Central Railroad in the next room to where I can splice in longer wires.  I might as well connect them to the second output that I am going to put in switches to turn them off except when running trains on the Ceiling Central RR.  Maybe I should just pull new wire that will reach the whole distance and eliminate a splice under the layout.  That is probably a better way to go.

I recently created a short that disabled my TIU.   It was a dumb move on my part as I had placed an object on the track that created the short and forgot about it as I tried to power up my layout.   My Z4000 is under my layout so I did not notice the blinking red light before several attempts and minutes had passed.   The result was that a transistor on the TIU blew apart.   I was lucky as my area MTH technician was able to bring it back to life.  

I now have a fast-blow-fuse resting in a mini-blade in-line fuse holder between my TIU and Z4000.   This is another option for surge protection.  

Cheers, Dave

John, I have plenty of wire.  I’m going to take your advice.  I’ll have a lot left over that I can donate to the Hadley Railroad. 👍🏻

Dave, I used an in-line fuse Then a breaker on my ZW.  Once I started using the Z4000 I just relied on the TIU’s fuses and the Z4000 overload.  You proved that a TIU needs more protection than that.  Thank you.

Looks great, Mark--nice job!

Just curious.....how is the operation of the DCS with the TIU where you have it? I remember Marty Fitzhenry telling me that the TIU needs to be at track level for everything to work properly.

John

Mark and John, the bridge lift is easy to build once you get going!

@BlueComet400 posted:

Looks great, Mark--nice job!

Just curious.....how is the operation of the DCS with the TIU where you have it? I remember Marty Fitzhenry telling me that the TIU needs to be at track level for everything to work properly.

John

John,  Thank you very much!  The TIU mounted under the layout works great in an 11x11 room.    I'm sure Marty was right if you were trying to cover a basement sized layout like his.  Also, if the signal has to go around corners, it could be problematic.  I recall trying to operate in the family room (that was to be Plan C) with the TIU near where I have it now.  Since the 11x11 room is an addition, the signal wouldn't make it through a concrete block and brick wall.  If I held the remote out at arms length to be a more direct line of sight through the door, then it was fine.

@mike g. posted:

Mark and John, the bridge lift is easy to build once you get going!

That sounds great Mike!!!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

That sounds great Mike!!!!

Mark, I built  2 others also. One for Brian Silver Mustang and one for Pine Creek Dave. I dont know if either have installed them, but I am open to that idea also.

@mike g. posted:

Mark, I built  2 others also. One for Brian Silver Mustang and one for Pine Creek Dave. I don't know if either have installed them, but I am open to that idea also.

Mike, That is very generous offer.  I'm up for looking at the plans and seeing if I can do it myself. 

@BlueComet400 posted:

Looks great, Mark--nice job!

Just curious.....how is the operation of the DCS with the TIU where you have it? I remember Marty Fitzhenry telling me that the TIU needs to be at track level for everything to work properly.

John

I believe this could be more of an issue if you are using the remote instead of the WIU and app because the antenna for the remote is mounted in the top of the TIU.  That is also why they say to mount it vertically and not horizontally. If you are using the WIU and app, I believe you can get a longer usb cable and place the WIU in another location as long as there is a line of sight between the WIU and your smart device.  My TIU is mounted under my layout but I was going to put my WIU on my control panel table next to the transformers so the WIU antenna is around lower level layout height.  Please correct me if this is not accurate, but this is my understanding. 

Mark and others, thanks to the PSX-AC discussion I just purchased 4 for each of my TIU channels.  I would rather be extra safe than sorry.  Looking forward to installing them. Thanks again for all the great info!

Michael   

Michael, I’m glad the discussion was helpful.  I was impressed with how fast they respond.

As to your comments about the WIU, that makes sense.

Nice progress Mark, looking good. I like the shelving you installed.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!

Funny, I just purchased a longer cable in order to move my WIU above my layout.  It is currently below/under the layout and I sometimes have issues with engines near the roundhouse, which is approx. 30'+ away from the unit.  Based on my understanding that the signal drops I am hoping that by installing the WIU above the layout it will give the unit more coverage, and possible reduce any restrictions/interference by eliminating the signal from having to travel through the layout.

I'll see how it works and let you know.

Darren

Darren, When we first installed what the manufacturer called wireless access bridges at work (1999-2000) the manufacturers recommended mounting them near the ceiling, but not inside the drop ceiling.  I took signal readings all over the buildings with a program on a heavy. bulky laptop at the time.  A lot has advanced since then, but having a Wifi unit installed higher in a room hasn't changed.  I would think it should help with the longer cable.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I did get both PSX-1ACs moved to between the Z4000 and the TIU Fixed inputs.  I also pulled back the two pairs of wires that feed my Ceiling Central Railroad in the next room to where I can splice in longer wires.  I might as well connect them to the second output that I am going to put in switches to turn them off except when running trains on the Ceiling Central RR.  Maybe I should just pull new wire that will reach the whole distance and eliminate a splice under the layout.  That is probably a better way to go.

Mark based on what I am understanding is the PSX-1AC's should be located between the Z4000 and the TIU? If that is the case what do you have between the TIU and the track for protection?  Also are you using any kind of Fast Blow Fuse or TVS Diodes?

Rick, Yes the PSX-1ACs are between the Z4000 and TIU.  I have both TVS diodes and fast blow fuses that I have used before, but haven't installed either here yet.  I think I would go with the TVS diodes between the TIU and track.  I got stalled on the project the last couple days.

Enjoying your progress, Mark. The TIU already has a TVS on each channel, so the next place should be close to the track. I had an 18" drop on every track feed to a two position terminal strip, so I put them there. I would think that the PSX-1AC would be plenty of protection. I run each channel with a 5 amp thermal and a 10 amp Airpax magnetic breaker, The Airpax breakers will trip instantly using a 28 awg wire as a direct short, where the thermal just burns the wire up because it can't carry enough amps to trip it. The thermal does trip if, say, an MU deadends on a siding. That's why I like them both. You can have it both ways because you can set the trip amps.

If you use the PSX-AC between the transformer and the TIU, is it best practice to put a tvs at every track feed?  I have read some people put them other places as well such as across the main track terminal blocks.  Is there any danger of using too many tvs's?  Do people use them before accessories as well? I have read some people change them out periodically.  Is this commom practice?

Mark, hope you don't mind us diverging a little into these electronics discussions on your thread.  There has been a lot of good info and I have learned a great deal in the past several days.  Your setup and background in electronics as well as everybody's input has helped me think through and improve my own electronics setup!

Keep up the great progress!

Michael

John, I do recall now that you mention it that the TIU has TVS.  How quickly I forget.  What you did makes sense to me, now that I think this all through.  That dovetails into my response to Michael.

Michael, I am happy we can have this discussion here.  I really do not know about whether you can have too many TVS's or put protective devices in too many places.  My background in electronics is mostly with technologies that are buried in landfills or have been melted down for other uses.    Most recently (the last 20 years) in telecommunications we had fuses for the power feeding the main office equipment, surge protectors on the cable going out to the next location, protectors on the opposite end of the cable, and fuses in the remote end itself.  Translate that to our layout, you have a breaker on the AC circuit feeding the Z4000, an overload in the Z4000, the faster responding PSX between the Z4000 and the TIU to stop power to the TIU, a TVS on each channel in the TIU, so it would seem a TVS at the track end of the wiring of each feed would make sense to me.  What would re recommended by those in the O gauge train industry probably varies as opinions varied in telecom and the electric power industry.

There is probably something on this Forum that discusses these questions further.  I would just need to do some searching.

Thank you again everyone who has contributed with questions, information, or just browsed and didn't leave comment.  I'm sure it got many in the later category thinking as many topics here get me thinking.  Smell the smoke??

Thank you Mark!  I ordered some tvs's from digikey today.  I need to stop reading this forum and now find time to install all of this stuff and work on the layout, haha 😁.  Seriously it has all been very helpful.  Glad I'm reading it now before I have everything wired up.

There are about 5 or 6 threads on here about the tvs that I found.  I can copy the links if anyone is interested or you could probably just do a search.

Michael

Michael, that’s great!!  I didn’t get a chance to look for information or to see how many more TVS I have.  I know I need to have some more.  I’ll take a look for topics covering TVS and let you know if I have trouble finding anything.

Update on the wiring.  I found my TVS diodes.  I have 8 left out of 10 I purchased when I put 2 on the outputs of my ZW.  I'll have to order more.  I received 2 packages of 10 each of the long handled switches Bob suggested.  That will be more than I need for this, and I can use them on.

Mike sent me all the scoop on his lift up bridges.  One of Mike's installations is just like mine with one bridge at a higher level than the other.  He showed me how to work them with one actuator.  I have the actuator in my cart ready to order.  I can use a switch, maybe one on each side, I just received to operate it.  I need to get some good plywood to make the supports.  Believe it or not, out of my stockpile I have a few little scraps of wood, not enough to do anything much.  I have hardware for it, except I need to get some limit switches to kill the power when the bridges are up.

Thank you everyone for all the great ideas!!!!

Mark, glad you found your TVS Diodes. You will have to tell me how they work and how to wire them. Maybe it would have saved my engine. I hate to think what it will cost me to get it repaired!

As for the life bridge, make sure you get 2 limit kill switches one for all the way up and one for when down.  The one for the down makes it easier to fine tune the track aliment. That way the Actuator doesnt try to keep running till it hits it's own internal kill switch.

Thank you, Mike.  Yes one could have saved the engine, of course a wire could have come loose too.

You just put the TVS diode across the two wires to the rails under the layout at each power feed.  I have never known if it helped or not, since nothing ever cooked.

Good Point about the limit switch for the bridge going in each direction.  Thank you!

Mark,

It amazes me that the tvs diode connects to the hot and ground and dosen't create a short.  Seems counterintuitive, but it works!

What is your preferred method of connecting wires.  Do you go all the way from the terminal blocks or transformers (for accessories) to the track or do you drop down short leads from the track and accessories under the table and connect via terminal blocks, solder or mechanical connectors?  I will use star wiring for my tracks, but wondering what is best for accessories (star, bus or some other method).

Glad you're making progress at finding all the parts you need.  I acquired some electrical components (terminal blocks, toggle switches, push button switches) from my dad today.  Apparently they were spares for my grandfathers boat years ago.

Michael

Michael, Yes I was not familiar with TVS diodes until I saw they were recommended as protection for engines with modern electronics.  That was only about 5 years ago.  I am curious, but have never taken the time to look up their electrical properties, but this discussion has reinforced my need to look that up.  Maybe after Christmas I'll get to that.

For this layout, I used the GarGraves rail pins with feeder wires already soldered on.  Maybe the easy way out, but things are getting harder for me to do, and soldering is one of them.  I forget, they may be #18 wire.  I went with the Wago lever connectors (the ones that handle 3 wires) that many Forum member recommended.  I like them.  They are a bit stiff to lift the lever the first time, but they really grip almost any size wire we would use on the layout.  I have #12 wire feeding from the MTH terminals at the panel to the Wago in the star configuration.  Funny, at the telephone company, we called it star configuration for Ethernet, but home run for telephone.  I am going to try to add the TVS to the Wago connectors.  There is a empty hole in all the hot feeds, but I put in a drop for both outer rails, using up the three holes.  I will try adding that end of the TVS as a second 'wire' in one of the holes on the Wago, and really tug hard to make sure the connection is good.  I may have to buy the 5 hole Wagos and refit the outer rail connectors.  It isn't a problem.  They are really easy to open and switch out.  I like them so much better than terminal blocks and fooling with tightening them down under the layout, although I can reach many of them from the top.  I hope this works.

If not, I intend to buy more Wagos for my DZ1000 switch machines since they have feeder wires on them.  I don't see a need for TVS there.  I never heard of anyone doing that.  I think accessories and lighting can be done in a bus fashion.  We aren't worried about signal strength and all those issues with DCS.

I acquired things from my dad too.  I got a lot of lumber from my dad's shop when we cleaned everything out last year before selling.  Mum and Dad (both 90) have been living in a personal care home for 3 years.  It just took us a couple years to figure out no family member was in the position to take the old 1888 homestead on.  I'm using some of my dad's tools also.  When he bought a new tool, he told me I could borrow it any time, and they would be mine when he didn't need them any more.  My brother is a renter and not handy with tools.  Dad had a lot of Grandpa's tools, but they are cumbersome and I let them go with the house.  Grandpa passed on in 1956, the year I was born.

Mark, you get a chance can you take a photo of the TVS Diodes and the connectors your talking about?

Mark, thanks for all the great info!  I second Mike's request.  Maybe a picture of the wago connected to a track feed somewhere on your layout.  Also can you post a link of where you get them and what you order?  I see a bunch on Amazon.

Here is a post with part numbers for commonly used tvs's and other components.

https://ogrforum.com/...zes-and-part-numbers

I was planning on using #14 wire for track power because I have a ton of it but don't have any #12.  Do you think that will be sufficient for my 13 x 16 layout.  Terminal blocks are mounted in the middle so no run should be over about 6 to 8 feet, probably less.

Michael

Mike and Michael, Here is a photograph of the ones I bought from Mouser.  They look like big diodes.

TVS stands for transient voltage suppression diodes.  They look like an open circuit to your normal voltage.  The look like a short circuit to transients, protecting your circuit and they do not break down so they can take multiple transients.  There are bidirectional and unidirectional ones.

Here is a photograph of the Wago connectors I bought.

Since I bought mine, someone on the Forum pointed out they have clear ones that you can see the connection and the levers aren't quite as stiff.  I haven't tried those yet.  I bought mine on Amazon Prime, listed as Wago lever nuts.  I'm thinking of ordering a box of the 5 conductor ones for my TVS connections to the two outside rails and reusing the 3 conductor ones on the switch machines.  The number system is as follows:  222 stands for the gray ones, 221 stands for the clear ones, 412 stands for the 2 conductor ones, 413 for 3 conductors, 415 for 5 conductors.  As in the photograph 222-413 is for the gray 3 conductor ones.

Here is a YouTube video that shows their system complete with their junction box.  This fellow is using them for house wiring, which I do not know if they are up to code anywhere here in America.  So far, I have just left mine hanging under the layout with the #12 feed wire pulled fairly taunt and than use nylon cable clamps attached to the underside to feed the wires through.

Your #14 wire should be sufficient for your short runs.  Thank you very much for the link to RTR's post on the TVS and PTC part numbers.  I'll use that for more TVS's since I have been buying from DigiKey lately.  That is the place GunrunnerJohn uses and gives their part numbers.

BTW Mike, I ordered the Linear Actuator for the bridges last evening.  I'll order the stuff I mentioned above today...I hope. 

It will be interesting to see how you integrate the TVS suppressors into the Wago connectors.

I used two gang terminal blocks for each power drop and soldered a TVS Suppressor to each one. I then mounted the block to the underside of the layout with screws directly below the feeder wires from the track and then connected them to the block on one side and the power wires (not shown) to the other side. 

I suspect you'll be able to fit the legs of the TVS suppressors into the Wago connector, but I think it will hang loose, so you'll then have to use some wire or cable clips to mount it securely to the underside of the layout ?

That's a nice installation, Richie!!

I just ordered a bunch of stuff mentioned above including some cable clips to hold the TVS and WAGO installations. 

Mark I found these at a big box store. When I installed all the flush mount 6 inch LED lights the all had this connecter in the box.

Rick, Thank you!  I took a look at a video on Home Depot and they look very nice.  No lever, just push the wires in.  They were using them instead of wire nuts for house wiring.  I hate wire nuts.  I already ordered some more lever ones, but I'm going to get some of these and throw all my spare wire nuts away. 

Hey Mark, when you get some time and find yourself under the layout, can you take some photos of how you have your feeders hooked up?

Mike, I will do it when I switch out the 5 pin connectors for the 3 pin connectors and add the TVSs.  They are all on order.

Sounds great Mark, then I can fallow your lead and redo mine!

Train derailment here do to to much rain!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, I will do it when I switch out the 5 pin connectors for the 3 pin connectors and add the TVSs.  They are all on order.

Mark glad you got something out the post. After reading yours about the Wago connectors I searched and found those. I have used them before every light in my basement/mancave/TRAINROOM came with those connectors in the light. My question would be how to secure them to the under side of the layout. My layout is U shaped and the control center is at the top of one side of the U. So to get to the other topside of the U would be about 90 ft so still not sure how to wire it up. A star configuration  may not be practical, so thinking a #10 buss wire for both power and ground around the entire perimeter using Wago type connectors at each drop may be the answer. The longer I wait the more answers to my questions are provided by you. THANKS A MILLION!

Mark,

I did this layout sketch of the way I think you are doing your track wiring.  Is this correct?

I will probably follow your lead and do the same method.  Those wago connectors are pretty sweet.  What cable clips did you order to secure your installation?  I would want everything secure and not hanging loose.  Was wondering if you could use double stick pressure tape to secure the wago connectors to the under side of the table?

In addition to the wago connectors do you have a "t" type or suitcase connector you like for bus type wiring?

Thanks for letting us all piggyback off of your methods 😁!

Michael

Rick, Yes 90 feet is a long way.  I’ve read some people have used bus wiring with DCS and get away with it.  I don’t know.

Michael, yes your drawing is exactly what I mean.  I think some double sided tape hold seemingly forever and some doesn’t.  Some of the nylon cable clamps I looked at came with sticky back.  What was out there years ago wasn’t very good.  I ordered some of them thinking these may be better and some with a hole for a screw.

Here is a good thread on different styles of Wago and Wago-like connectors that have tabs for screw mounting. There are also ones with A and B inputs. I just got some of those, very useful. I wish I had them from the getgo.

John, thank you for the link.  I saw those and wondered about the quality of them.  The screw holes for mounting are a great feature.

Mark, I wanted to get your thoughts on these.

10/30/50PCS Quick Docking Cable Wire Connectors 2 12 pin screw fixing push in Universal compact Electrical Wiring Terminal Block|Connectors| - AliExpress

@John H posted:

Here is a good thread on different styles of Wago and Wago-like connectors that have tabs for screw mounting. There are also ones with A and B inputs. I just got some of those, very useful. I wish I had them from the getgo.

Mike, Take a look at the thread John H linked above.  In the last two posts on that topic, Mr. Mouthpear cites he likes the very thing you found.  There is also information and opinions on this link OGR thread

Morning Mark, thats how I found them. From your wonderful thread that everyone is adding to!

Yes Mike, I'll take his word that they are reliable.  I like the little tabs with holes for mounting them.

Because you have to push the wire in fairly hard on the non-lever connectors to secure them in place, I've read that when using stranded wire, the wire can come apart and this can be an issue, so it would appear that using the lever connectors, especially with the screw holes is the way to go.

As far as using clips to hold wires and connectors in place under the layout, I've taken to using what is known as "plumber's strap tape" which is used by plumbers to secure/hang pipe. Using wire or cable clips can be difficult when you're on your back and need three hands to hold everything in place or drill a starter screw hole or have to use a hammer to drive a clip in place which dislodges everything on the top of the layout.

The plumber's tape is a semi-rigid plastic tape about 3/4" wide and comes in rolls of different lengths. Depending on how many wires I have to hold in place or how heavy they are, I usually cut a 1.5"-2" section of tape off the roll with a scissors and then crawl under the layout and position the plastic tape over the wires, straddling them in place, and then staple each end of the tape to the underside of the layout with a heavy duty staple gun - an electric staple gun makes the job even easier. In fact, the tape is stiff enough that, for most applications, you only need to staple one side in place and it will hold the wire(s) in place just fine. One advantage to that is that, if you ever need to run another wire nearby, you can just lift the unstapled end of the tape up and slip the new wire underneath and either continue to leave that end of the tape unstapled or staple it if the wires are too heavy.

If you have a long run of wire, you can just add a section of tape along the run wherever needed. The tape and gray color are also useful to secure wires that you're trying to hide.

In addition, a small roll costing less than $5 goes a long way.

The reason I am looking at the pass threw ones is I am like Rick, My control panel is in the middle so I did a bus wire all the way around and have really never had a problem with DCS Signal. This way I can power in one side and just keep going out the other side!

Richie, Thank you for the information on the non-lever ones being problematic on stranded wire.  The plumbers tape is a great idea.  Thank you again for your input!!

Last night I ordered a variety of 2, 3 and 5 port wago connectors, cable tie/supports and a variety of 3M foam double sided tape pieces.  I am also expecting the tvs's and psx-ac's to come soon.  I will have lot's of projects to choose from when I'm off during Christmas and New Year's!  Thanks for all the input in this discussion.  It has solidified a lot of loose ends that were floating in my mind for the layout wiring.  Hope everyone here has a Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year!

Michael

Michael, I am glad you were provided with lots of new projects because you contributed to this topic discussion!!    Have a Merry Christmas too!

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Merry Christmas all!

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Mark, can you PM me and let me know where you order from?

Back atcha, Mark and Mike. Merry Christmas!

Yesterday Mike sent me a PM asking why I was getting 5-port Wago connectors.  My answer was that I did not see that 4-port ones are available.  Well he found some, but my order was already in.  So today I received a box of 5-port Wago connectors, 50 TVS's (that should be more than enough), and a linear actuator like Mike used to raise and lower his bridges.  All I am waiting on are the limit switches for the bridges and the cable clamps.  I already have the toggle switches.  I told Mike I will post photographs of how I add the TVS's to the drops and feeds to the panel.  That will be the first project.

The panel!  Yes, that is something I wasn't going to bother with, since I have 2 AIUs on order for switch control.  I'll need something for the toggle switches to cut power to the sidings, something I forgot about until I started connecting the mainline feeds.  I forget a lot.  I have plenty of Masonite to use.  I wasn't thinking of putting a track plan on it, but I'll have to label the switchers in some way.  Maybe I will end up with the track plan.

Hey Mark, I took my track plan to the local printer  and he printed it on self adhesive vinyl!

Mike, that was a great idea!!!  Thank you!!

I have received all the parts I think I need for the TVS installation and the bridge lift installation.  I bought a small piece of really nice 5/8" 7-ply plywood to cut for the bridge and actuator supports as well.

Here are a couple of photographs showing the connectors with track feed wires, TVS, and larger wires back to the panel area, as requested by Mike.  This one is the best to show what I am doing which is what Michael drew.  The white background makes things show well.  This was before I put in the cable clamp to hold it from me snagging the wires.

Tis is showing an upper level feed since it is easiest to get in and take a photograph.  This one is a single track connection with the white wire from the center rail going to the 3-port connector, the TVS is a bit hard to see on the center port of the connector going to the center port of the 5-port connector.  The two black wires from the top are to the outer rails and go to the 5-port connector.  The red wire is on the 3-port connector and the large black wire is on the 5-port connector.

On to the ones under the layout!! 

Looks good Mark, you sure make it look easy, I will have to do some testing when I get mine before I hook it up to the layout. But now I know how it is to look!

Mark how and where are you installing the TVS diodes? It appears to me you are installing one at every drop where you tie into your main buss wires!

Rick, yes that is right, but it’s not a main bus.  It’s just the closest point to the track on each feed of the DCS star wiring.

Mark, Excellent use of Wago connectors.

Steve

Moving right along! I had a bunch of 3M scotchlock connectors that I used (really just because I had them). They're easy to use when you're standing or sitting somewhere comfortable, not so much crouched under the table with arms overhead. Although it got easier after the first few.

If I had to do it again, I'd use the lever connectors like you are.

My control panel with toggle switches is just a few printed sheets of paper pasted to a 1/8" x 12" x 24" plywood board. Drilled holes right through the paper and board and stuck the toggles in. I liked the idea of a nice printed one on vinyl, but it felt a bit too permanent if we wanted to mark up or make changes later, just print new paper.

Looking great!

good idea installing tvs diode's even if it saves  one ps 2 3 volt or ps 3 boards it was worth the effort, the only inconvenience is if one shorts you'll have to disconnect them all to find the shorted one but other then that it's a great idea and can save you a lot of money!

Alan

P.S. hope you had a very Merry Christmas you and your trains  wife and family!

Alan Mancus

Mark, I have a concern. IIRC from a discussion here TVS diodes can and do fail, sometimes open and sometimes closed. The only assurance against a failed open is periodic replacement (because no way to test for an open) and of course failed closed is a direct short-circuit. I wouldn't have them anyplace inaccessible.

Mike, Rick, Steve, Jeff, Alan, Lew, Thank you for all the great comments, observations, and questions!

Steve, thank you.  After seeing folks post photographs of connectors that have mounting holes, I started to question my use of these slightly hanging in mid air.  While a couple of installations closest to the wall underneath the layout were a bit awkward to make, I still think I won't snag any of the ones closer to the aisle when storing items.

Jeff, I have used the Scotch Lock kind in the past and agree these are so much easier to use.  They hold well even as I tugged as hard as I could to pull the wire and even the TVS leads out.  Your use of just printing the track plan on paper that can be printed again for changes does have merit.  If you placed a clear plastic sheet over it before drilling, it would be a similar end result to Mike's panel.  So many ways of doing things.

Alan and Lew, you are both right there is a problem if a TVS shorts out or opens up.  Periodic replacement is a good point I hadn't thought of. 

As to the suggestion to not place any that will be in an inaccessible area, that is something I already thought of.  I posted once on this topic way back (Next month will mark 4 years since I started the topic) that I plan to build scenery sections on the workbench, then place them on the layout.  Anything that covers something up, will be removable much like Bruce G. and others have shown.  Where is the workbench, you may ask?  Well, for now it is one of the shelves under the layout that works well with my padded stool as long as it is a project that has little height and I won't sit very long.  I can set up the narrow folding table that I used building a couple kits last winter and slide it in and out from a section of the layout that doesn't have a shelf.  I have no room for a permanent workbench in this house.    I setup horses on the patio and now in bad weather in the garage stall if I pull my wife's car out.

Troubleshooting a shorted TVS or any other short circuit got me thinking.  I have the toggle switches that I am going to wire into the feeds to all the sidings to shut off power when I want to park an engine.  I already wired in the mainline sections without power switches.  Alan and Lew, you got me thinking this morning (Smell the smoke??) that I should add toggle switches to all the track feeds.   It would be so much easier to throw toggle switches to find a short circuit than lifting wires on the terminal block on the board I showed a couple weeks ago.

Thank you again, one and all!! 

Glad to see you truckin' along Mark!

Thank you, Bill!!

Mark,

An inexpensive label maker (I got mine at Staples) is a good way to label your main switches. I also found it helpful in labeling other

switches and toggles around the layout.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Troubleshooting a shorted TVS or any other short circuit got me thinking.  I have the toggle switches that I am going to wire into the feeds to all the sidings to shut off power when I want to park an engine.  I already wired in the mainline sections without power switches.  Alan and Lew, you got me thinking this morning (Smell the smoke??) that I should add toggle switches to all the track feeds.   It would be so much easier to throw toggle switches to find a short circuit than lifting wires on the terminal block on the board I showed a couple weeks ago.

Thank you again, one and all!! 

Mark- If the track sections are not isolated from each other, you won't be able to achieve what you want with the switches on the mains. I'm not familiar with the TVS's, but wouldn't the short just carry through the track thus rendering the switches useless?
I'm not familiar with DCS either so maybe one of the experts can weigh in.

Bob

Richie, Those labels look great!  We had label makers that made labels like that at work.  When cleaning out my parents' house I found one of the old Dymo label makers that you turn the dial to the letter, then squeeze the handle to make the embossed label.  Dad probably brought it home from work after they bought the ones they have these days.  The labels I made with it still stick good.  I made a lot of labels with that kind myself years ago.

That brings up a good point.  Since I am planning to control the switches and eventually a few accessories with an AIU, I will only be putting the toggle switches for track power on a panel.  I'm still thinking I may just line up labeled switches in a row or two like you showed, Richie.

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- If the track sections are not isolated from each other, you won't be able to achieve what you want with the switches on the mains. I'm not familiar with the TVS's, but wouldn't the short just carry through the track thus rendering the switches useless?
I'm not familiar with DCS either so maybe one of the experts can weigh in.

Bob

Bob, I have isolated gaps between all the mainline blocks like on the sidings.  I think there are 8 of them.  That was a carryover from old HO conventional days, wiring for two train operation.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Bob, I have isolated gaps between all the mainline blocks like on the sidings.  I think there are 8 of them.  That was a carryover from old HO conventional days, wiring for two train operation.

My first thought when I read your post was wonder if he has each section isolated from the next.

Should have known better......

now returning to your regularly scheduled program.....

WOW, now I have to make sure I have blocks, or I will be chasing shorts for ever! LOL

Bob, You never know!  There are so many ways to do things.  Of course some ways are better than others, and some ways are just different.

Mike, If you have a basic Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel, just cut the center rail at logical spots, and you are in business.  Some folks put in insulated track joiners when they lay track, and some people put in pieces of styrene or something else and file to the shape of the rail.  And then there are some who have still just left the air gap.  I'm in the latter camp.    I should put in the piece of plastic, but this layout is still under construction. 

@Michael Cimba 040217 posted:

Mark,

I did this layout sketch of the way I think you are doing your track wiring.  Is this correct?

I will probably follow your lead and do the same method.  Those wago connectors are pretty sweet.  What cable clips did you order to secure your installation?  I would want everything secure and not hanging loose.  Was wondering if you could use double stick pressure tape to secure the wago connectors to the under side of the table?

In addition to the wago connectors do you have a "t" type or suitcase connector you like for bus type wiring?

Thanks for letting us all piggyback off of your methods 😁!

Michael

My layout is already wired and was wondering how to add the TVSs close to the track, like most recommend.  I was thinking something like this, but was not sure if it would work.  Glad to know it will and I use the WAGO connectors all over my layout.  I was not sure if cutting the wire, near the tack, from the terminal block and adding the TVS and the WAGO connector would hurt my DCS signal.

If you use Ross Switches, there is a natural break in the center rail at the switch. I end most of my blocks at switches.

@Tony H posted:

My layout is already wired and was wondering how to add the TVSs close to the track, like most recommend.  I was thinking something like this, but was not sure if it would work.  Glad to know it will and I use the WAGO connectors all over my layout.  I was not sure if cutting the wire, near the tack, from the terminal block and adding the TVS and the WAGO connector would hurt my DCS signal.

Tony, I tested for signal strength after adding the PSX-AC1 and WAGO connector and got 10.  I just did the same on a block with the WAGO and TVS and still got 10.  My runs are relatively short in an 11x11 room, so I don't know if the signal would drop if on a longer run.

@Pat Kn posted:

If you use Ross Switches, there is a natural break in the center rail at the switch. I end most of my blocks at switches.

Pat, that is a very good point.  Are your switches the regular Ross or the Ross-Ready with the jumpers on the bottom?

Ours are regular Ross. We add jumpers when necessary.

Mark,

Looks like you're making good progress!  Glad you got all your components in.  I got the tvs's and the wago connectors but am still waiting for the psx-ac's.  The post office is delayed on that one. 

In relation to your toggle switch discussion, I read in Barry's DCS book that toggle switches can also affect the DCS signal because the hot wire has to go from the terminal block to the switch and then to the track instead of just from the terminal block to the track.  Don't know if this will be a problem if you toggle all of your blocks.  Seems like you haven't had any signal strength issues and it seems like that has been improved with the newer rev tiu's anyway.  Might not be an issue at all.

I thought I read that it is not easy to test if a tvs has failed without sophistocated test equipment.  I think this is why some guys just change them out periodically.  If this is the case, just wondering how putting toggles on every block will help you determine a tvs failure?  Maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

Anyway, keep up the great work!

Michael

Michael, it would only help isolate a short circuit not an open.  Initially the PSX-AC1 would detect the short circuit and cut power.  The safest way would be to remove engines from the track and measure with an ohmmeter between rails detecting zero ohms because a TVS is shorted or there is some other short circuit.  If I opened up the circuit to the center rail of the section of track with the shorted TVS by either lifting a screw or throwing a toggle switch, then the short circuit would go away and the meter would read infinite ohms.  I would have to open them one by one until I found the one with the short circuit.  Of course at that point I still wouldn't know if the TVS was shorted, or a screw or something fell between the rails.  There would not be a way to tell whether one opened up unless you had that sophisticated test equipment.  In that case, all you can do is hope the PSX-AC1, the TVS in the TIU protects the circuitry.  I hope I made sense.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Michael, it would only help isolate a short circuit not an open.  Initially the PSX-AC1 would detect the short circuit and cut power.  The safest way would be to remove engines from the track and measure with an ohmmeter between rails detecting zero ohms because a TVS is shorted or there is some other short circuit.  If I opened up the circuit to the center rail of the section of track with the shorted TVS by either lifting a screw or throwing a toggle switch, then the short circuit would go away and the meter would read infinite ohms.  I would have to open them one by one until I found the one with the short circuit.  Of course at that point I still wouldn't know if the TVS was shorted, or a screw or something fell between the rails.  There would not be a way to tell whether one opened up unless you had that sophisticated test equipment.  In that case, all you can do is hope the PSX-AC1, the TVS in the TIU protects the circuitry.  I hope I made sense.

That does make sense.  Thanks Mark!

Michael, I’m glad it made sense!  You’re welcome!

I remembered this morning that I did not address the question of whether adding the toggle switch, another connection point, would decrease the track signal.  I'm sure Barry is correct stating in his book that it can affect the signal.  I picked the longest wire run on my layout which is no more than 20 feet.  I then lifted the wire to the center rail on the terminal block and connected one of the toggle switches.  The signal still read 10 and there was no noticeable difference in the way the engine operated once it crossed to a block that didn't have a toggle switch.  I am guessing if the wire to the track was longer then the toggle switch may reduce signal strength.  Barry must have tested all this with a larger layout than mine.

The most challenging aspect of the layout, the 'lectrisical', as Lisa Douglas used to say! Sounds like you're moving forward. Wishing you continued success and enjoyment.

@rail posted:

The most challenging aspect of the layout, the 'lectrisical', as Lisa Douglas used to say! Sounds like you're moving forward. Wishing you continued success and enjoyment.

  She was a riot!!! 

Don, Thank you!!!  I find myself in the same spot I was during my working days when I was training a new coworker.  Invariably, I would be asked questions I never thought of before!  Sometimes I wondered who was training who! 

A week from today will mark 4 years since I first posted my initial request for help in planning my layout.  I actually started writing what I later posted on January 1, 2017.  Today I thought it would be nice to thank everyone who has contributed ideas, corrections, opinions, encouragement, and 'likes'.  Having only built small HO and N scale layouts and never having used any type of command control before, I learned a lot form all of you and others under other Forum topics.  I am fully aware this layout would not be as far as it is without all of you!  Yes it looks rough in places, but that is because of reused materials and some of my skills are rough.  Your help has made it work!

Thank you one and all!!

I pray everyone will have a better upcoming year than the one we just finished!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

A week from today will mark 4 years since I first posted my initial request for help in planning my layout.  I actually started writing what I later posted on January 1, 2017.  Today I thought it would be nice to thank everyone who has contributed ideas, corrections, opinions, encouragement, and 'likes'.  Having only built small HO and N scale layouts and never having used any type of command control before, I learned a lot form all of you and others under other Forum topics.  I am fully aware this layout would not be as far as it is without all of you!  Yes it looks rough in places, but that is because of reused materials and my some of my skills are rough.  Your help has made it work!

Thank you one and all!!

I pray everyone will have a better upcoming year than the one we just finished!!

Mark folks here may have helped and offered ideas and opinions but in the end it was you that did the work and took the time to build what is becoming a great layout. Don't under estimate your skills you are doing a fantastic job in building what will be a great layout. Keep up the great work. You want to see something rough look at mine close!

Thank you, Rick!  I certainly want to make a trip out State College way to see you and your layout.  Maybe if I saw some more layouts, I would realize they have lots of flaws too, instead of seeing what looks like pristine construction in relatively small photographs. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

A week from today will mark 4 years since I first posted my initial request for help in planning my layout.  I actually started writing what I later posted on January 1, 2017.  Today I thought it would be nice to thank everyone who has contributed ideas, corrections, opinions, encouragement, and 'likes'.  Having only built small HO and N scale layouts and never having used any type of command control before, I learned a lot form all of you and others under other Forum topics.  I am fully aware this layout would not be as far as it is without all of you!  Yes it looks rough in places, but that is because of reused materials and my some of my skills are rough.  Your help has made it work!

Thank you one and all!!

I pray everyone will have a better upcoming year than the one we just finished!!

Mark, Congratulations !!!

Mark I have learned that you are your own worse critic and will always pick out your own mistakes that other folks  will never see unless you point them out. Take my layout for example several folks comments on my track work, but guess what I get to start all over again because I got that DARN Big Boy for Christmas and now I have to relay all my curves as I don't have enough clearance to run the Big Boy, the A or the Centipedes at one time. Something will be taking something else out big time.

Thank you, Leandro!

Rick, I read about your clearance problems on curves.  Yes, that is a big mistake!  I'm sorry you have to call out the MOW crew for major overhaul!

Mark, congrats! Things sure are looking nice at the Blackwater Canyon Line! Keep up the wonderful work and please keep posting as you go a long. I am sure you realize that many of us are learning from you and all that you post! I have to say I really like your work you do!

Congratulations Mark on your 4th anniversary. Your creation, and insights, are impressive and inspirational. Sharing makes all of us better.

Happy New Year!

Thank you Jay and Mike!

Mike, your plans, photographs, and video for the lift up bridges is invaluable to me.  I would not have figured out such a neat way of doing it myself!

I finished putting in all the TVS's and put in some more cable clamps, both ones held with a screw and some sticky backs where I couldn't get the screwdriver in.  Moving right along!

Congratulations Mark!  4 years is quite an acomplishment and you have made wonderful progress.  I have really enjoyed following the Blackwater Canyon Line this year and have already learned a lot in the process that I can apply to my layout.  I was reflecting back on the progress I made this year, and even though I don't have much to show yet, I have hopefully built a good foundation to build on in the coming years.  I am just starting year 2 on my build.  I tend to be a perfectionist and I notice all of my mistakes, but I agree with the comments above that nobody else will see them unless you point them out.  Mistakes teach us all something new and build character too 😁!  As long as you get enjoyment out of the process and final product, that is all that matters!!  Hope you and your family have a Healthy and Blessed New Year!

Michael

Michael, thank you!  I’m glad you have been a part of it!  I’m looking forward to seeing your progress on your layout!  Have a blessed New year

Congratulations on your fourth anniversary Mark. I have gotten plenty of useful ideas and input on my layout too. And my layout is pretty rough. You’re doing great, and have come up with some very interesting solutions on your own! Keep going as you have been, we have all enjoyed it so far 😁

Andy

Happy 4th anniversary Mark. It has been a journey worth taking for sure and we have all enjoyed taking it with you. I still remember when you cleared out that back room when your daughter moved out. You are building a well planned layout that will bring you many years of enjoyment. I'm sure what's underneath many beautiful layouts is not all that pretty. Once you get the scenery started it will really look sharp. I'm coming up on 5 years for mine and it's still not done- yea, I know,  they are never done.

Bob

Thank you Andy and Bob!!  Yes it has been an interesting journey! When I first posted a request for ideas I hoped to be farther along after 4 years, but on the other hand I could certainly not be this far.  I can remember a couple of layouts that didn't get nearly this far before other responsibilities to over.   You are right I will like the looks of it much better once I get into scenery.

Mark, it’s keeping you young; well, with the exception of your knees.

Jay, actually the layout hasn’t been bad for the knees since I can sit on the rolling stool.  I did my knees no help years ago at work.

Those rolling stools are very handy.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Jay, actually the layout hasn’t been bad for the knees since I can sit on the rolling stool.  I did my knees no help years ago at work.

Knees, up, muscle loss, Grankids are the cure!

Ive been looking for your update link photos Mark so I can "Like" your progress..... think last I found was the PINK room. She IS a great singer, i Know, Right! <g>

Happy 4th anniversary!! I follow your thread and love what you are doing.  You are an inspiration.

Mark I found this this AM, very interesting. I read the last three pages and do I have some questions for you. Will e-mail.

I read where you plan to use toggles for track power on sidings. Stan showed us how to use the AIU with relays and we have 12-14 that work perfectly. We may eventually have a board but the grandkids have picked up on the remote and do the turnouts and track power better than I can after they work with it for thirty minutes.

Covid makes for a lot of time between visits; hopefully to change soon.

Bill

Scott, Thank you for bringing a lack of an update to my attention.  I mentioned some things over on 'What did you do on your layout today', but wrote nothing here.

First of all, thank you for the comments on our girls, Heidi the artist and Holly the musician.  Yes, grandchildren would make us younger.  My wife has all kinds of toys, trains, books, she has bought over the years to entertain, but we are still without.  All in God's good time.

I decided to just wire in all the connections straight to the MTH terminals.  Output 1 has the main line blocks and Output 2 has all the sidings and the Ceiling Central RR.  I ran trains and all is okay.  I have slack wire behind the board and didn't tie any wires neatly since I am waiting on 2 AIUs I have on order with Jeff McCormick at my LHS, CT McCormick Hardware in Zelienople.  'Supposedly' they are to ship in April.

My current project has been measuring and figuring on how to build a Mike G. powered lift up doubled bridges.  Mike  is getting me some more photographs to answer a question, and then I should be able to proceed.

In the meantime my wife gave me the use of 3 shelves in the family room to display trains.  Finally all my engines are either on shelves or the layout.  In the lower right, you can see a couple cars behind the B&O Mike that are sitting on top of Menards boxes.  I want to get some wood to make a nice back shelf on some of these shelves to display some cars.

Here is another shot of the shelves I put up a month ago.

Aem7s4lyfe and Bill Webb, Thank you for the great comments while I was typing!!  Bill, I think I am thinking along the same lines as you and Stan now.  I'll wait for your reply.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Great Job Mark! You are moving right along.

Things are really looking good Mark! I posted a couple photos for you on what did you do on your layout for you!

Looking forward to seeing what you do with the bridge project, Mark!

Mark: Really looking good, I love how you mounted everything giving me great ideas. How did you mount the TIU?  I did not see any mounting holes on mine, but I got mine with the system first came out way back when.

The shelves look great! I hope my wiring looks as good as yours!

CT is my LHS now too! They've been good to work with so far.

Thank you, John, Mike, Palallin, Rick, and Bill!

Mike, I already printed out the photographs.  They clear up the misconception I had with the drawings you sent earlier.  I thought the bolt on yours went the whole way through the table.  Now I see there is no need for that.  In fact by the way I had interpreted it, I was concerned it could cause a bit of sag and binding.  No issue now.  I'm sure I have bolts and washers in the garage, and I'll go to the shed and see if I have a bearing from an old mower before it snows and worse we may have ice.  I won't walk down the hill to the shed if there is ice. 

Palallin, Mike did a great job on two different lift bridge applications.  One he lifts a single bridge and the other he lifts two bridges the rear one being several inches higher than the on in front.  That situation is almost exactly my situation and John's proposed situation.  I'll be glad to show it once the project is started and completed, but I will have to give Mike all the credit. 

Rick, I wondered the same thing as you about mounting TIUs and AIUs.  If you take the little rubber feet off the rear/bottom of the TIU you will see indentations of very thin if not broken plastic.  Ream those out (It doesn't take much) and you will see how the holes in the front line right up so you mount them by driving small diameter head screws in from the front.  I've had that TIU sitting on the floor, a shelf, and even temporarily wire tied to a vertical board for 6 or 8 years and never knew how it was intended.  If Barry was still with us, he would say, "It's in the book!!"  Duh!!!

Bill, Jeff is great.  I order online and put a note with it, and he has it all ready when I get down to Zelie to pick it up.  If I can't get there, he pops it in the mail.  His old Web site was good, but his new one is better.  His wife and the young man (I don't know if he is their son) are always quite helpful as well.

Wiring and mounting all look great, Mark.

Is the Z4K accessible enough to be able to easily turn on and raise the throttles ?

Thank you, Richie!  The shelf the Z4000 is sitting on is 18" above the floor, and the edge of the shelf is right under the edge of the layout above.  I can easily bend my knees, turn it on, and adjust the handles.  It would be nice to be a little higher.   I can do that when I am done wiring by placing it on something if I so choose.

Ohh!! Great Job !

Congratulations Mark !!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Such nice, neat wiring. I should be paying attention.

Nice use of "wasted" space for the shelves.  One question / observation - do the ends of the shelves in the foreground pose a risk of being hit by a wayward knee?

Nice job Mark.  If I may make one suggestion,  attach your Tiu and aiu with velcro.  Much easier to remove if you need to upgrade or move.  Art

Thank you Leandro, Mallard, and Art.

Mallard, that is an excellent question.  I just tested it out and it is possible to bang a knee on a shelf corner, but not probable.  The layout top overhangs the shelves by a few inches.  The second shelf comes right to the top of my knee.  I had to push my stomach up into the table and awkwardly bend my knee for it to hit just at the top of the knee.  Once I have the fascia on the layout and the lift up bridges in place, I think there will be even less chance of bumping.  Excellent question and concern!

Art, I tried some Velcro before on the TIU, but what I had didn't stick well enough to the surfaces for the weight of the TIU.  Of course I know there is better Velcro available with better sticky.  It is a very good suggestion.  Thank you.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Such nice, neat wiring. I should be paying attention.

Nice use of "wasted" space for the shelves.  One question / observation - do the ends of the shelves in the foreground pose a risk of being hit by a wayward knee?

Great Northern at the Blackwater Canyon Line!  I like it!  But, I would, wouldn't I?

@John C. posted:

Great Northern at the Blackwater Canyon Line!  I like it!  But, I would, wouldn't I?

John, I knew you would like it.  I love the colors of the Great Northern.  Actually those two GP7s were a deal I couldn't pass up.  A Western Pennsylvania Hobby Shop had them at last November's Monroeville Greenberg show.  I have purchased from them before.  I saw these two with a tag $150 for the pair, so I wondered what is wrong with them.  I saw there were some cosmetic defects, but nothing that couldn't be taken care of.  One has Legacy and the other is nonpowered.  The Legacy one ran great on the test track, so I bought them.  $30 worth of parts from Lionel and everything is replaced except I still need a bell for one.  I never saw GP7s with bells.  There is still some minor paint wear on some corners, but that is it.  I already have a Legacy GP7 in Western Maryland Speedletter scheme.  It has been suggested I repaint these in the 1970s Western Maryland red-white-black colors, but I like them as they are.

Yesterday, I did some preliminary work on putting in the mike g. lift bridges by removing the wood lips and alignment screws that held the lift out section in place.  I also did a bunch of measuring and drawing to figure what to cut to build a similar arrangement as Mike's.  Nothing much to photograph yet, but it is a start on the project.

Good deal. Those lift bridges will be awesome!

Also looking forward to lifts, I have yet to venture there on my layout

Thank you, Bill and Catdaddy.  I'm just hoping I can do as well as mike g. who came up with this method.

One of my favorite on going threads!

Hi Mark, I have all the confidence you will do a great job with the bridges! Looking forward to your progress.

@MartyE posted:

One of my favorite on going threads!

Marty, Thank you very much!!!  I think this is a good time to comment on how much I appreciate all the comments and 'likes' from so many great folks!  I recall 4 years ago DoubleDAZ Dave commenting in an email to me shortly after volunteering to help me with the design that some of these topics don't seem to gain much of a following and others do.  I hoped this one would.  I have truly been blessed by all of the encouraging comments, suggestions, corrections to my thinking, and even comments like, "Just build it!" when we were nit picking the earlier designs. 

While I have had model trains since an early age like many of you, and have built other layouts, this is my first in O gauge 3-rail and my first using command control.  I have received so much help and encouragement on the ins and outs of those 2 areas of the hobby.  Also, I have been old school in choice of materials and methods of construction.  Not that old school doesn't work anymore, but that there may be better and easier ways of doing things considering I still use basic power tools.

@Aegis21 posted:

Hi Mark, I have all the confidence you will do a great job with the bridges! Looking forward to your progress.

Thank you, John!!  I'm sure I will get it working too, I may take a few steps back in the process however.    I still need to come up with the second bridge.  I have an Atlas through truss bridge that I bought from another Forum member that still needs some minor repair of the very delicate webbing.  He did a good job packing, it is just that it is that delicate.  I am hoping I can brace it enough underneath as Mike did on his.

Again, thank you everyone!