No. 60000 at franklin institute

Yes.  It is a 4-10-2  three cylinder compound.

 I made a 17/64 scale model about ten years ago - slightly larger than hongz.

The original was said to have been purple.  I worked from photos, and got the boiler taper slightly incorrect.  You cannot tell.

I got to see this loco often as a kid, and was always impressed by it.  I'm sorry that no one has made a model of it for 3-rail O.  Very modern looking in a different way than the Lima superpower stuff, with a unique tender.  Obviously, it would require some wide curves!!

@bob2 posted:

Yes.  It is a 4-10-2  three cylinder compound.

 I made a 17/64 scale model about ten years ago - slightly larger than hongz.

The original was said to have been purple.  I worked from photos, and got the boiler taper slightly incorrect.  You cannot tell.

You know what "they" say, bob2: if there's no photo, it doesn't exist!  

Mark in Oregon

Would have be neat to see it in purple!!

Yeah, but when I post photos, I kill perfectly good threads!

The tender was a more or less standard Vanderbilt tender.  On the demo run up the Sierras, they temporarily converted it to oil and hooked an SP 120 C tender on it.  We think that tender might be behind the Pacific in the Calif. RR Museum; when they stripped it they found gold SP lettering.  Yes, I made a model of that, too.

As for 3 rail, remember, this locomotive is huge, and would require a fairly large radius.  

Oh, what the heck.  Here's the tender.  Trucks were done in bronze from Scale Craft rejects.  Decals by Jim Wilhite (RIP):

Awesome!!

Where's the locomotive Bob?

BOB: WOWSA! AWESOME tender! PLEASE post a photo of the engine! THANKS! :-)

That tender was such a pleasant tease, but the engine would really be the tour de force! :-)

Bob can't show the the rest of the locomotive because he would have to take the Franklin Institute apart to get to it

Beautiful build by the way as always Bob.

Any chance i could get one made in ho gauge from you?  Or 3 rail o gauge? 

Really, that beast was purple?

Sad thing is I've been to Philly many times but always with someone who had zero interest in going there, so I never got to see it in person/

It is sharp!!  I didnt know either that it was a light purple!!  

@p51 posted:

Really, that beast was purple?

Sad thing is I've been to Philly many times but always with someone who had zero interest in going there, so I never got to see it in person/

I took my grandson to see it when he was about four years old, he was petrified of it, wouldn't climb up to the cab with me.  It is one large locomotive.

Well, that was plenty of response.  I usually post a photo and the thread stops cold.  See my 0-8-0 thread on the 2-rail forum.

But you guys are ok - take me a minute to fire up the big computer.

Meantime - we have no color photos from 1926, so we can only take the word of historians.  Not much has been written about this locomotive.  It is currently shiny black, with gold leaf lettering, and it moves!  It is on a jack screw that drags it back and forth on its display track.

Let me see if I have a "history" for this beast.  I submitted an article to OGR, but it was rejected.  Since I retain copyright, I shall share it here.

Photos first.

Well, it moves a foot or two.  One time I was there, that was working, but a couple other times they weren't moving it.

Oh, that is too bad.  I think it moved five feet at a time, maybe more.  I may have that information somewhere.  Meantime, big computer.  This thing is 17/64 scale, which is proper for O Gauge track, and has operating center rod and double Walschaerts.  It needs 74" radius, and has double-shotted with my SP 4-10-2s, also 3 cylinder 17/64 scale models.

Herewith:

Now bear with me - this next post is my submitted text, and it is lengthy.  Unless you are really interested, just enjoy my photos and skip the next post.  Do let me know if you like my locomotive.

Oh - to answer a question above, scratch building for profit is a giant loser.  Nobody would pay my wage for a monster like this - wait until I croak, and get it for cheap on eBay.  It would cost five grand to get one like this made.

The Baldwin Three Cylinder 4-10-2  - #60000            by Bob Turner

January 9, 2010

Sounds pretty improbable, but this locomotive survives, and moves hundreds of feet every single day.  It is inside the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, and is hooked to a worm and gear arrangement that drags it back and forth all day long on a short stretch of track.  I first saw it in 1957, and was totally captivated by its massive appearance.  I knew I would need a model of this beautiful piece of machinery, but it took until the 1990’s before I had the skill and motivation to re-create such a stunning locomotive in brass.

If you skip to the photos before reading very far, you will notice that the model is purple!  That, as I understand it, is one color the real 60000 wore while under steam.  I am not sure, of course, that I got the correct shade of purple, but it has enough weathered black applied that it probably makes no difference.  The model is entirely brass and steel, with cast iron driver centers machined in my shop.  Even such things as tender trucks and side rods were cast from my masters, although the tender trucks are pretty much copies of Scale Craft Commonwealth trucks.

The real locomotive was a Baldwin demonstrator.  It was indeed a compound locomotive, with the center cylinder accepting high pressure steam, exhausting to the outer cylinders. All cylinders were the same size, but the total displacement of the low pressure cylinders allowed efficient use of steam from the high pressure cylinder.  The center cylinder drove the second axle with a center crank, via a conventional main rod.  Valve gear was unusual “double Walschaerts”.  The boiler was a water tube boiler, similar to those used on early Baltimore and Ohio experimental locomotives.  This giant was generally coal fired, but for a time it burned oil while trying to sell the Southern Pacific on the concept.  I suspect, but cannot prove, that the SP simply took a 120-C-6 tender, painted Southern Pacific in gold on the side to match the locomotive, and installed a burner in the firebox.  The reason I suspect this is because the troops in San Jose have uncovered such gold paint in one of the layers of paint on a Pacific tender, and it is fairly clear that SP used only silver and an off-white for its own steam markings. We are sure the SP made a tender substitution, as opposed to sticking an oil tank in the Baldwin’s coal bay.

The truly fascinating thing about the big Baldwin is the number of railroads on which it served, if however briefly.  It worked its way around the entire United States, stopping in the end in Philadelphia to be forever sealed in the Franklin Institute.  As I understand it, it got about 100,000 miles of freight hauling in 1926 and 1927, only to be returned for dead storage in 1928.  It was donated in 1932, presumably in the black paint that it wears today.  Information I have indicates that the locomotive was demonstrated on, in addition to SP, the Baltimore and Ohio, Santa Fe, Burlington, Great Northern, and Pennsylvania.

The 4-10-2 type was only used on the SP and UP as a road locomotive, and UP did away with the center cylinder rapidly.  The SP retained the center cylinder until the end, and one of the SP 5000-class was saved for posterity in Pomona, California.  Both the SP and UP locomotives were “simple” in that the center cylinder received high pressure steam just like the outside cylinders.  And of course both locomotives used conventional fire tube boilers.  The Gresley valve gear (levers out in front of the cylinders) was used to set the timing of the center cylinder on both.  The big Baldwin could also use high pressure steam in all three cylinders, if the engineer so desired.

This model is in 17/64 scale – slightly larger than O Scale, but the correct scale for the track width.  The main frame is ¼”x3/4” brass bar, machined for sprung drivers, and bolted and soldered for a rigid frame.  Power is by Pittman 8234 motor driving an NWSL mod 0.6 “short” gearbox, so the driveshaft is not visible above the frame.  It has full working double Walschaerts valve gear, and a functioning center main rod, although I cheated by merely using an eccentric on the second axle, instead of a cranked axle.  The boiler is made of brass tube, with the tapered section machined from thick wall tube and telescoped into the adjacent boiler sections.  The smokebox front and cylinder block were both machined with door dogs and bolts, as well as cylinder head covers and crosshead guides, soldered in place.  Domes were hand cut from brass blocks.

I could uncover no elevation drawings, so I had an elevation photo re-copied to 17/64 by guessing at wheelbase and adjusting everything to that dimension.  The biggest error I have so far noticed is the taper section in the boiler:  Mine is symmetrical, but the real locomotive is tapered only on top and sides.  Decals were custom made for this model, and are simulated gold leaf, just as the real one appears to have actual gold leaf lettering.  This model won first place at the popular vote contest during O Scale West 2000.  It does run like the proverbial watch, and is kept company by two SP-class 4-10-2s, also in 17/64 scale.  It is not my best model, but it is right up there in the top ten.  The two best ones are cab forwards in 17/64, and they stay in individual cases on furniture in the living room.  Enjoy the photos.

See Bob, people love your posts! 

Question: why does the rear tender truck sit so far forward? Any idea as to why it was built that way in the first place?

Thanks for showing us this rather huge engine...

Mark in Oregon 

No idea on the Baldwin tender - I just copied photos.  The SP, however, was done from blueprints.  The four axle 120 C tenders were even more exaggerated.  Maybe water is heavier than oil?

'Nother question:

On an engine as long as this, which driver did you chose for gearing? Assuming that the motor is just fore of the cab, having the main driver as the geared one would mean an awfully long drive shaft...(?) 

I don't suppose you have an "in progress" picture of the frame and drive train...

Beautiful model.  No wonder it won First Place... 

Mark in Oregon

The Baldwin at Franklin Institute doesn't move anymore.  Truthfully, even before five years ago it rarely moved in my experience.

“It has not moved in over five years,” said Dubinski. “The reality is, in the world we live today, a five-foot move of a train is not something that provides the ultimate customer-service experience. We don’t view that as additive.”

They probably wore out the mechanism.

I use 8000 Pittmans and NWSL gears.  The longer the worm shaft, the less torque wrap-up.  The worm shaft is so low it cannot be seen above the frame.

So my choice for geared driver is generally pretty far away from the motor, usually to the center driver.  Yes, I may have a mechanism photo or two - I should put them on the O Scale forum?

@bob2 posted:

They probably wore out the mechanism.

I use 8000 Pittmans and NWSL gears.  The longer the worm shaft, the less torque wrap-up.  The worm shaft is so low it cannot be seen above the frame.

So my choice for geared driver is generally pretty far away from the motor, usually to the center driver.  Yes, I may have a mechanism photo or two - I should put them on the O Scale forum?

Lemme think about it for a minute...

...YES!!!  

...please.

Mark in Oregon

BOB: That is one super- fine CRAFTSMAN model! BRAVO, sir and thank you for sharing!

BOB: You, sir, in my humble estimation, are a master modeler in every sense of that title!

Thank you.  There are better modelers - and some are building as I type.  But my models do wind up with ribbons at shows, and I am quite happy to share photos when I get a little feedback.

I posted the mechanism photos on the "Varney" thread in the 2-rail forum.

You should see the gorgeous MoPac Berk my friend in Kentucky got from an estate sale.  I may have posted them already - if not I should.  I keep forgetting the artist's name, but he always got first place at the Midwest Meet.  That guy is the master!

Ah!  Louis Bartig!  See? Old age has not yet won the battle for my memory.

Side note:  During the move into the Franklin Institute the tow trucks were side lined due to a Teamster's strike.

An enterprising person grabbed a mule along with a block and tackle and winched the loco along the street.  The loco and tender were moved separately.   I guess the Teamsters failed to remember their namesake's origin. 

For a while the photo of the mule operation was on the wall next to the 60000.

Side question, what is the back story to the disappearance of the fantastic HO layout next to the 60000 which was under construction in the 50's?  It was replaced with some lame nothing which seemed to hold no real public interest.

I remember the layout. It was awesome.  

They should rebuild it

I'll never forget the "informed" F.I. employee's response when I asked "What happened to the hugh HO layout?"  She responded "They sent it out for service".  What scares me the most is that folks that disconnected drive and vote

This thread has given me a wave of nostalgia. Growing up just a stone's throw from Philly, the Franklin Institute was a common weekend destination for me, and somehow I always managed to end up in the train exhibit. I remember moving in the locomotive, sitting in the engineers seat, and just imagining what it would be like to be at the throttle of the beast as it took on the grades of Pennsylvania. More recently, I remember going to the museum as a junior in high school and spending the whole field trip in the cab. Specifically, I recall many of my peers quickly looking in and seeing me waving from the fireman's seat, and then bursting out in laughter (No, they weren't mocking me, at this point I was affectionally known as "the train kid", and most people respected my passion). I would love a model of this locomotive for my layout, both for sentimental reasons and just because it's a beauty!

Max - me too.  I don't think I discovered it until I was out of high school (Berwyn) but I was captivated by the Baldwin and the smaller Reading Pacific.

Not a Reading fan, but I had to have a Reading Pacific as well.  Awaits paint.

Also a BEAUTY! :-)