No engines responding to DCS signals?!?!?! HELP!

Well, start with the very most basic set up that you can. Connect the TIU to a single piece of track and see if it will see an engine.

Seems like the signal is off for some reason.

The really odd part is my PS3 and PS2 engines starting up on the FIXED 1 and 2 channels just as soon as power it put to the TIU.  Those cannot be put into Variable mode I thought.... so the engines are seeing power and somehow defaulting to conventional mode?  

Engineer-Joe posted:

Well, start with the very most basic set up that you can. Connect the TIU to a single piece of track and see if it will see an engine.

Seems like the signal is off for some reason.

Tried that with multiple tracks.... from channel 1 to variable 2.  I can get the engine to run in conventional mode on variable channel.  But when I switch that to fixed it just sits there with sounds and smoke going but it cannot be seen by the TIU.

Sure sounds like there's no DCS signal present then. I'm blessed with some extra equipment to help troubleshoot. I can swap out a TIU or other stuff.

 So is the TIU light on? I hate to ask the simple stuff but we need to start from scratch I guess. How are you powering the tiu?

U didn't disconnect anything right? (swapped the red and black at the inputs)

Seems weird that it's all four channels. I need to think about this one....

I just went through that issue in December. Since my layout is some what small. My final solution was to start rewiring. What a pain in the xxxxxx. Replaced some track that was old(fast track) I tried everything, and nothing worked. In the process I had a 5v engine die in place. I am still having issues, but at least now I am getting 4 thru 10. Before out of range, engine not on track, engine not found. When I finally got something running mostly 0 thru 3. My TMCC engines ran fine thru my DCS remote. Once I pull the tree off the layout I can finish the rewiring. I would really find out what's causing the issue. I didn't have this issue before I replaced my old TIU. Variable 1 died and it wasn't the fuse.

When it first happened I had not swapped anything.  Once I slowed them to a stop.... boom they all stopped responding to any signals.   Remote said engine not on track with anything I did.  

When I power up the TIU the red light comes on.  There is also one in the middle section that blinks once during power on.   

I power the TIU via fixed channel 1.  But I also plugged in a brick to the AUX power to just see if that helped.   Nope.  

Yeah this has me stumped too.  Could I have fries the TIU somehow?  Variable still works but no channels will do DCS.   

John,

Take a hard look at whatever scenery you were working on.

The odds are extremely good that it was something that you did that caused the problem.

I can only guess that it would be odd to fry all the TIU's signal generators at once and still have it work. I don't know that much about the TIU to help there. Maybe there's something inside shared by all the channels that could do that, I wouldn't know. Maybe the other guys will chime in here.

 It sounds like you can get the tiu and remote to talk to each other. I would normally swap out the tiu at this point. You're not throwing breakers and it works conventionally.

 Some of the things you've already done helps rule out certain things that come to mind.

Well Barry I didn't actually touch anything when the problem began.  That's why I'm stumped.  I tried a bunch of resets and such before I pulled power from all but one channel at a time.  And I'm thinking if I did do something wouldn't the resets and update to 5.0 have cleared everything out?

Yeah the tiu and remote are talking since I can run variable channels in conventional.   

Barry 

I thought about that too. The only thing I had done was replace a curve and preped the area of the layout where the tree was to go up and had added remote light switches for the room that ran from the wall outlets.  The first thing I did was pull the remote power outlets. The issue was still there. The only thing I could finally come up with. An issue with the wiring. So I am in the process of replacing 16 gauge wire with 14 from the TIU/transformer to the track. I am hoping this works. So far the sections that have the new wiring there has been improvement in the signal.

If all channels powered you could lose multiple chips that control DCS signal.  The other issue is 1 can degrade that others are effected.  It can be repaired.

Did you try turning on all DCS signals?  G

GGG posted:

If all channels powered you could lose multiple chips that control DCS signal.  The other issue is 1 can degrade that others are effected.  It can be repaired.

Did you try turning on all DCS signals?  G

I did try setting variable channels 1 and 2 to "fixed", if that is what you mean?

I'm guessing I might be buying another TIU and sending this one in for repair. On a side note.... if you have a TIU and the new WIFI setup, do you even need a remote control anymore?  Only reason I ask is I'm considering just a new TIU but its a bit better deal to buy one with a new remote too (mine suffers from wheel breaking).

If you have a Z4k receiver hooked to a Z4000, you need a remote to operate it.  Personally, I don't think the wifi is trouble-free enough yet that I would want to not have a remote,  You know, I assume, that your current remote works with any version TIU, so you already have one.

Your posts aren't clear on one thing.  There is an internal LED near the Variable 1 input post.  Does this flash when you power up, and if so, how many times?

You would not have lost locos etc on a reset if you had backed up the remote to a PC when every.   Loco etc data could have been restored.  I also think reset is an overdone attempted cure.

Thumb wheel can be fixed, under DCS make sure all channels DCS signal is on.  It can be turned on and off.   G

He stated the led flashes once.

He said an LED in the middle section.  THE LED we're talking about is in the lower left-hand corner (from input side).

RJR posted:

If you have a Z4k receiver hooked to a Z4000, you need a remote to operate it.  Personally, I don't think the wifi is trouble-free enough yet that I would want to not have a remote,  You know, I assume, that your current remote works with any version TIU, so you already have one.

Your posts aren't clear on one thing.  There is an internal LED near the Variable 1 input post.  Does this flash when you power up, and if so, how many times?

You would not have lost locos etc on a reset if you had backed up the remote to a PC when every.   Loco etc data could have been restored.  I also think reset is an overdone attempted cure.

The reason I was asking about needing a remote, which I have now, is that I just wondered if I should get another one as a replacement with a new TIU.  

The little LED near Variable one comes on and a few seconds after its on goes out for a millisecond and its back on.  Now there is another LED near Fixed 2 that blinks once during start up.  Its on the board right next to the RF Card.  And I did open the unit and reseat the RF Card just to be sure, but then again the remote runs a train in conventional on VAR 2 so that shouldn't be it.

GGG posted:

Thumb wheel can be fixed, under DCS make sure all channels DCS signal is on.  It can be turned on and off.   G

Even though I reset the TIU and Remote AND updated to 5.0...... could I have the DCS signal turned off on the two "Fixed" channels?  I assume I go into the remote to DCS Setup and set those to FIXED ON?  

Menu/System/DCS set up/ AON..... all channels "on". However why would they get turned off???

Gregg posted:

Menu/System/DCS set up/ AON..... all channels "on". However why would they get turned off???

Well, the only thing I can think of is somehow they did and the resets and update didn't change it back to all channels on?  But then does that control conventional mode too or just the DCS signal?  

No matter what, I'm trying this when I get home!

tackindy posted:

Gregg posted:

Menu/System/DCS set up/ AON..... all channels "on". However why would they get turned off???

Well, the only thing I can think of is somehow they did and the resets and update didn't change it back to all channels on?  But then does that control conventional mode too or just the DCS signal?  

No matter what, I'm trying this when I get home!

I think you'll be pretty lucky if my suggestions works. However it's certainly worth a shot.  No dcs  signal is required for conventional running.

I thinks of DCS with 2 parts,

The first is.... remote/ tiu communications. Without   this  nothing works.  Your's is OK. 

The second part  is" track signal" for command running..... seems you've lost the track signal   created by the tiu for whatever reason........Turned off?( hopefully). crossed wire ?

anyway we know for sure  that proto2 come up dark and silent upon powering up on a good dcs channel.      Time for a small test track??  

Gregg posted:

tackindy posted:

Gregg posted:

Menu/System/DCS set up/ AON..... all channels "on". However why would they get turned off???

Well, the only thing I can think of is somehow they did and the resets and update didn't change it back to all channels on?  But then does that control conventional mode too or just the DCS signal?  

No matter what, I'm trying this when I get home!

I think you'll be pretty lucky if my suggestions works. However it's certainly worth a shot.  No dcs  signal is required for conventional running.

I thinks of DCS with 2 parts,

The first is.... remote/ tiu communications. Without   this  nothing works.  Your's is OK. 

The second part  is" track signal" for command running..... seems you've lost the track signal   created by the tiu for whatever reason........Turned off?( hopefully). crossed wire ?

anyway we know for sure  that proto2 come up dark and silent upon powering up on a good dcs channel.      Time for a small test track??  

Well..... I tried it out on three different tracks with no success, but I'll do a small test track when I get home consisting of one or two 30 inch straights.  

Unless I get anyone else coming up with any ideas, I guess I'll be buying another TIU (maybe even a WIFI module) tonight.  

So who should I use to fix the existing TIU?  Anyone have any suggestions?  To bad they aren't like a computer with some sort of power on self test feature to tell you where the problem is.

Definitely try a small test track. That could help narrow down where the problem exists. 

gcubed@cox.net  This is GGG-s E-mail address  aka  GGG in the above posts    (George) one of the best and very reasonable.  .

Ok, came home at lunch.

First I tried AON to make sure all outputs were on.  They were.

Second, set up test track with one thirty inch straight.  No changes.  Even tried using an external aux power source for the TIU and a power source for the Fixed 1 channel then on Fixed 2.   Nothing.

So..... TIU dead I'm guessing.  I'll be ordering a new one in an hour (just under 200 is what I can find) and sending this one off for repair!  

On a side note.... I bought a WIU (WiFi module) off Ebay for 179 shipped.  Still had three left if anyone else wants one.   

tackindy posted:

Ok, came home at lunch.

First I tried AON to make sure all outputs were on.  They were.

Second, set up test track with one thirty inch straight.  No changes.  Even tried using an external aux power source for the TIU and a power source for the Fixed 1 channel then on Fixed 2.   Nothing.

So..... TIU dead I'm guessing.  I'll be ordering a new one in an hour (just under 200 is what I can find) and sending this one off for repair!  

On a side note.... I bought a WIU (WiFi module) off Ebay for 179 shipped.  Still had three left if anyone else wants one.   

Just me being extra careful, I would try AOF and then AON just to be sure there is not something in the logic going on.  Probably won't help but it won't hurt either.

Tony

It does seem strange everything would go at once.

Tony_V posted:

tackindy posted:

Ok, came home at lunch.

First I tried AON to make sure all outputs were on.  They were.

Second, set up test track with one thirty inch straight.  No changes.  Even tried using an external aux power source for the TIU and a power source for the Fixed 1 channel then on Fixed 2.   Nothing.

So..... TIU dead I'm guessing.  I'll be ordering a new one in an hour (just under 200 is what I can find) and sending this one off for repair!  

On a side note.... I bought a WIU (WiFi module) off Ebay for 179 shipped.  Still had three left if anyone else wants one.   

Just me being extra careful, I would try AOF and then AON just to be sure there is not something in the logic going on.  Probably won't help but it won't hurt either.

Tony

I tried that Tony!  Ha ha.  I had the same thought you did.  But nope!  I opened up the case and really looked at all four fuses..... no obviously burned up chips or parts..... just nothing.   And yes all channels are out in relation to DCS signal.  When fire up the TIU with an engine (PS3 and PS2 tried both) on the test track the engine lights up, then sounds and smoke soon after as if its not seeing the watchdog signal.  The remote cannot see any DCS engines or anything.

I'm guessing maybe there is a common chip for the DCS signalling?  Maybe it went out?  Maybe I used the term "lashup" too many times and Rich Melvin sent the "KILL TIU" signal out across the WWW to my house?  You know he can do that!  

Anyway... I guess I'm ordering a new TIU now.  Sigh.   

Just curious  what version is stamped on the bottom of the tiu?

Gregg posted:

Just curious  what version is stamped on the bottom of the tiu?

Its a Rev L.

John. try using the variable channels to see if they work.. I finally found the issue with mine and in the process two 5v engines that had appeared to be dead are now working.  Fixed 1 is bad. not only with the signal but with the power too. I should of caught this from the get go. The rewiring has helped (16 to 14 gauge) all channels but fixed 1 now at 9-10. This was a new TIU too. My TMCC signal has also improved which also leads me to believe that Fixed 1 had issues from the start.  The two 5v engines I deleted and then added them again. still did not get a response. So I  reset the engines to factory and both engines started right up, I added them back in and now life is good. The one thing I hadn't done was to run a jumper to fixed one from the other channels. I tried that one today and unplugged the wall wart from the TIU. Its always the little things. When I reconnected the old TIU I was also getting 9-10s on all to include variable 1 which I thought was bad. Turned out signal was turned off. I would keep at it. Hope this encourages you.

Yeah my Variable 1 channel does have issues, but the other three are good and I've independently tested on each.  The only thing that works is running Conventional.  DCS doesn't appear to work in any case.  With wall wart powering TIU through AUX or not..... on Fixed 1 or Fixed 2 or Variable 2 in fixed mode..... AON or AOFF then AON.......

I got burned out trying different things.  I ordered a new one.  The existing one will be shipped off for repair and be there as a backup.  

I am doing the same thing with my older TIU as a spare.  I plan on upgrading to 5.0 and then send my current one to G for repairs. The thing with the TMCC I still can't figure out but I had two dead spots that the engines wouldn't receive certain commands. That issue has also gone away. Modern Electronics, don't you love it!!!

Anyone know how this was resolved?  I just ran into this SAME exact issue, I think.

Two nights ago, everything was working fine, but I needed to move some track around and try a new engine.

Now I my DCS can't find anything.  Apply voltage turned the engine sounds on, and smoke on, but DCS remote just sits there "Looking for Engine".  I had the engine in the remote, but it started up immediately after turning on power supply.  Deleted engine from remote, and tried to add new MTH, and it just sits "Looking for Engine".  Moved to test track.  Same thing.  Removed all other connections to TIU.  Same thing.  Tried a different engine.  Same thing.

I removed all connections to DCU.

Input is from Lionel 180W brick to Fixed Voltage In2.

Output is from Fixed DCS Out2 directly to test track section.

I've got 3 other inputs/outputs from TIU to try.

Snow total in 20136 zip code as of 4:30pm, 2".

VADarthDad posted:

Anyone know how this was resolved?  I just ran into this SAME exact issue, I think.

Two nights ago, everything was working fine, but I needed to move some track around and try a new engine.

Now I my DCS can't find anything.  Apply voltage turned the engine sounds on, and smoke on, but DCS remote just sits there "Looking for Engine".  I had the engine in the remote, but it started up immediately after turning on power supply.  Deleted engine from remote, and tried to add new MTH, and it just sits "Looking for Engine".  Moved to test track.  Same thing.  Removed all other connections to TIU.  Same thing.  Tried a different engine.  Same thing.

I removed all connections to DCU.

Input is from Lionel 180W brick to Fixed Voltage In2.

Output is from Fixed DCS Out2 directly to test track section.

I've got 3 other inputs/outputs from TIU to try.

Snow total in 20136 zip code as of 4:30pm, 2".

From your wiring description  the tiu is not turned on.   The tiu needs a power supply to turn on, function , operate... do it's thing.. . 

  Power to fixed 1 or an aux power supply is the only way to turn the tiu on .    

 Fixed 2 is a straight through connection which  will allow power through but unless the tiu is turned on    there's no dcs signal.

Thanks Gregg!  In the words of Homer Simpson... Duuuuhhh.  Silly me forgot to power the TIU...doing too much re-wiring at once....also thanks to Bruce - it was both your inputs that triggered me to go back and make sure I didn't just leave it unpowered....

For those keeping score, it's 10pm in Northern Virginia, 40 miles west of DC, and we've got about 6 inches per the yardstick I stuck on the deck.  If we're getting 24-40" as predicted, it had better start picking up!  I call BS now.  I think they missed the ball on this one....