No more constant track cleaning?!!🤨

There is a thread that discusses this but I can't find it. I have not used it on O gauge, but I used it on my N gauge layout and it made a huge difference.

Drew

Great video, thanks for sharing.  In Dec 2021, I cleaned my track and engine wheels with mineral spirits and applied NO OX, but left it on 24 hours as many others have recommended.  Other references show ways to allow the use of NO OX with traction tired locos.  NO OX has improved my 027 conventional controlled layout operation greatly, now allowing very slow train running and switching for the first time ever.  I have even applied NO OX to my Marx 1590 switch track connections to improve conduction.

I have read and studied most of his recommended articles and others and believe this treatment will eliminate track cleaning forever.  Even is it is not that good, the better train operation is well worth the effort of using NO OX.

My application experience is in the following OGR link below, post 79.

https://ogrforum.com/...3#159096765317812943

NO-OX Charlie

Currently I have not cleaned my track in a long time, probably too long but I am not having any issues. That being said I have read every thread on this forum about track cleaning and never heard of this product. GRJ has many times talked about Polar and Non Polar products and has posted a chart sikmalier to the one flashed on the screen during the Video.

I watched this video about 2 months ago.  Immediately ordered the Sanchem NO-OX-ID A special from Amazon, then cleaned all my track with Low Odor Mineral spirits. 

Since there was a warning that NO-OX may not be compatible with "traction tire" applications, I ONLY USED it to treat the Center Blackened rail of my Ross Switches and Gargraves track.   I also treated the center pick up rollers of some engines and passenger cars that would notoriously flicker. 

The results have been remarkable, all my engines are running more smoothly, and passenger cars and cabooses that used to flicker don't anymore.   I ran over the some sections of the main line this past weekend with a block of wood with the mineral spirits and it came back almost completely clean.   When I used to do this after 2 months with 91% isopropyl alcohol, I'd pick up  quite a bit of "black residue".   

I am totally sold that this isn't "black magic", no pun intended.   

@NJCJOE posted:

There is a thread that discusses this but I can't find it. I have not used it on O gauge, but I used it on my N gauge layout and it made a huge difference.

Info you seek may be contained here: https://ogrforum.com/...6#159237711782797556

My wife has her own N gauge layout, I'm the one one that does most of the building of it,which I really enjoy by the way,

Anyway early on while searching for various info Ron's trains and things came to the top of the pile, he has a lot of helpful info on a lot of different subjects from bench work to scenery

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

……Other references show ways to allow the use of NO OX with traction tired locos.  NO OX has improved my 027 conventional controlled layout operation greatly, ….

Charlie

Do you have engines with traction tires that you have run on treated tract?  The post in your link said you had one but had not run it yet.  Have you and how are they holding up?

UPDATED to reflect Charlie's earlier post.

@SURFLINER posted:

Info you seek may be contained here: https://ogrforum.com/...6#159237711782797556

the links you seek:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws...ne/index.html?page=9

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/5733

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/146

the No-Ox thread and how to apply it:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/7519?page=2

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/7169

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Went through all the links above, and while traction tires were addressed in some posts, no one actually stated they ran engines with traction tires after applying No-Ox.  Basically: apply, wait 24+ hours, wipe dry, and you should be okay.

Tom, you post in the 2-rail and S forums.  What has been your experience with No-Ox and traction tires.  Any problems?

It is hard enough to change the traction tires on some engines, don't need to do it because of this as an experiment.  I may try it on the center rail, as mentioned before, but only on one loop.  Maybe.

I’ve used no-ox and all of my trains have traction tires. I applied the no-ox with printer swabs, waited 24 hours and wiped clean. The tires are fine, no slippage and no swelling of the tires. Plus now everything runs smoothly with little need to clean the tracks.

@chris a posted:

I watched this video about 2 months ago.  Immediately ordered the Sanchem NO-OX-ID A special from Amazon, then cleaned all my track with Low Odor Mineral spirits.

Since there was a warning that NO-OX may not be compatible with "traction tire" applications, I ONLY USED it to treat the Center Blackened rail of my Ross Switches and Gargraves track.   I also treated the center pick up rollers of some engines and passenger cars that would notoriously flicker.

The results have been remarkable, all my engines are running more smoothly, and passenger cars and cabooses that used to flicker don't anymore.   I ran over the some sections of the main line this past weekend with a block of wood with the mineral spirits and it came back almost completely clean.   When I used to do this after 2 months with 91% isopropyl alcohol, I'd pick up  quite a bit of "black residue".   

I am totally sold that this isn't "black magic", no pun intended.   

Chris, great information. but I do have a question, how do you apply it to places you cannot reach on the layout? I am asking as I cannot reach the track in the tunnels without taking the mountain top off.

Mike

The YouTube video on the first post says to run all your locos right after applying the NO OX.  At this time run them on all the tracks including the unreachable sections.  This should spread the NO OX to all tracks as well as on all loco wheels.  That is how I applied the NO OX to my loco wheels.  They did a lot of slipping but got better with slow running.

Others have recommended applying NO OX to the loco wheels with cottton swaps or corner of a rag, let set 24 hours and then wipe off wheels with a rag.  Locos with traction tires can be treated this way but skipping application to the traction tires.

Here is another source of info on NO OX and application.

https://dfarq.homeip.net/how-t...eaning-lionel-track/

NO-OX Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Mike

The YouTube video on the first post says to run all your locos right after applying the NO OX.  At this time run them on all the tracks including the unreachable sections.  This should spread the NO OX to all tracks as well as on all loco wheels.  That is how I applied the NO OX to my loco wheels.  They did a lot of slipping but got better with slow running.

Others have recommended applying NO OX to the loco wheels with cottton swaps or corner of a rag, let set 24 hours and then wipe off wheels with a rag.  Locos with traction tires can be treated this way but skipping application to the traction tires.

Here is another source of info on NO OX and application.

https://dfarq.homeip.net/how-t...eaning-lionel-track/

Charlie

Thanks for the information, Charlie! I will have to watch the video!

@Keith Crook 020419 posted:

I’ve used no-ox and all of my trains have traction tires. I applied the no-ox with printer swabs, waited 24 hours and wiped clean. The tires are fine, no slippage and no swelling of the tires. Plus now everything runs smoothly with little need to clean the tracks.

Thank you!

I have been using Goo Gone on a NE Trains track cleaning car front pad and leave the rear pad dry. It works great on my layout.

@Gene H posted:

I have been using Goo Gone on a NE Trains track cleaning car front pad and leave the rear pad dry. It works great on my layout.

May I suggest you read this whole thread?

https://ogrforum.com/topic/cleaning-wheels

Goo Gone is something to leave behind, unless you like to clean wheels and track a lot.  Also, GG will eat traction tires -- ask me how I know...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Mike G:   I did the finger tip application, for the NO-OX-ID, wiped it off with the Blue Paper Shop towels as they don't shed lint.   Yes it was a pain in the butt to go under the table and reach up and do the tunnel tracks, but it was working so well and making such a difference I figured, I'd do the contortionist thing.     Had to get under there to do clean with the Low Odor Mineral spirits anyway.   Fortunately based on the fact that virtually no dirt has re-appeared it's not like I am going to be down there doing this every other month.   Also, since I am only using it for now on the blackened center rail, I am not particularly concerned if there is a slight residue left, it will get picked up and spread around by the carbon pick up rollers. 

Ron / CAPPilot

I have run the traction tire engines and they run fine on my NO OX treated track.  No traction issues and great slow running.

Charlie

Well. at least there are six or so NO OX believers, on OGR forum, for keeping train wheels and track clean and improving train slow speed operation.  That is not many for a proven track cleaning reduction technology that is over 50 years old.  The numbers of NO OX believers on the HO and N forums are much higher.

NO-OX Charlie

I used LGB conductive grease on my track and except for slippage at first have not cleaned the track for months. Also run 🏃‍♀️ traction tires and so far no issues

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Well. at least there are six or so NO OX believers, on OGR forum, for keeping train wheels and track clean and improving train slow speed operation.  That is not many for a proven track cleaning reduction technology that is over 50 years old.  The numbers of NO OX believers on the HO and N forums are much higher.

Charlie

Charlie,

I couldn't agree with you more.  I spent weeks reading through all the links I attach to each of these track/wheel cleaning threads I find.  I overall conclusion was NO OX if you are in a clean environment or use the graphite method for dustier environment.  Goo Gone if you feel you have to, but finish off with mineral spirits.  Non-polar cleaners are a no brainer, throw out all the course abrasives (bright boys, sand paper) because like Goo Gone, you may think they work but the reality is they only make matters worse.

What is that thing about leading a horse to water???

Life is too short to spend it cleaning track and wheels...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Wow guys this is great!! I never thought I’d receive this many responses to this very subject but this is really great to see all the different experiences that people have had with No Ox and positive too I might add!

So if I’m understanding correctly, the steps involved are

1. Clean your track with low odor mineral spirits and wipe clean with a shop towel

2. apply the No Ox ID with your fingertip on both the center rail and the two outer rails

3. let the no ox set for 24 hours then wipe clean with a shop towel

4. let your engines run around your set up or lay out letting the no ox work onto the wheels and pickup rollers

One question I have is when applying no ox, do you apply to just one section of track and then let the locomotives do the work of spreading it around to other sections of track or do you spread it around by hand to other sections of track before running your engines?

Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on any of the steps that I itemized and in the words of XR from buzz light-year of star command “don’t hesitate to talk down to me like I’m a two-year-old”😂

Happy Modeling!

Step 4 only if your engines do not have traction tires or doing center rail only.

@Drewski1992 posted:

Wow guys this is great!! I never thought I’d receive this many responses to this very subject but this is really great to see all the different experiences that people have had with No Ox and positive too I might add!

So if I’m understanding correctly, the steps involved are

1. Clean your track with low odor mineral spirits and wipe clean with a shop towel

2. apply the No Ox ID with your fingertip on both the center rail and the two outer rails

3. let the no ox set for 24 hours then wipe clean with a shop towel

4. let your engines run around your set up or lay out letting the no ox work onto the wheels and pickup rollers

One question I have is when applying no ox, do you apply to just one section of track and then let the locomotives do the work of spreading it around to other sections of track or do you spread it around by hand to other sections of track before running your engines?

Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on any of the steps that I itemized and in the words of XR from buzz light-year of star command “don’t hesitate to talk down to me like I’m a two-year-old”😂

Happy Modeling!

Drew, look here for your answers:

the No-Ox thread and how to apply it:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/7519?page=2

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/7169

You don't have to wipe off the mineral spirits from clean track.  If your clothe is clean after wiping the rails, then your track is clean.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Tom Stoltz posted:

Drew, look here for your answers:

the No-Ox thread and how to apply it:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/7519?page=2

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/7169

You don't have to wipe off the mineral spirits from clean track.  If your clothe is clean after wiping the rails, then your track is clean.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Thanks Tom! Appreciate it.  Sometimes I need things broken down so I can reference them later on when I’m actually trying something new

To clear up some concerns

NO-OX-ID Special A is a conductive grease and it reduces or eliminates sparking between the train wheels and electrical pickups with the train tracks.  Sparking is caused by micro or bigger track flaws and track section joints on the train track and on wheels and pickups.  Some believe sparking attracts dust to the train tracks and dust accumulates on the track when contacting normal oil and grease from train maintenance.

NO-OX-ID Special A is a conductive grease.  It is greasy so even when very lightly applied.  After the 24 hours needed to allow it chemically react with the metal track and engine wheels, NO OX is wiped off all track with a rag and neither is greasy any more.  For full use of NO OX, one should clean train car wheels if dirty as dirty car wheels will add dirt to the track.  NO OX application is not necessary as the car wheels will pick up some  NO OX from the track.

NO OX should not be applied to engine wheels with traction tires.  It can be applied to all train track and engine wheels without traction tires. and wiped off after 24 hours.

NO-OX-ID Special A has been used for over 50 years by thousands of train fans, mostly smaller gauges than O,  including by in 1965 by famous model train modeler Linn Westcott, the original editor of Model Railroad.  NO OX is not snake oil or voodoo, but there is no quantitative data on its use.  Other treatments have been recommended like clipping oil, graphite, and other things.  None have received reports by users that they eliminate track cleaning and improve slow train operation better than NO OX.

If after treating track with NO OX and then later clean the track with GOO GOO, mineral sprites, alcohol ext. you will have to re treat the track with NO OX again.

So one has to review the available reports from as long ago as 50 years, data if available and ones experience and knowledge as to what is factual and what is not.  The risk of trying NO OX is about the $10 cost to buy some, some time cleaning track and train wheels and  time to apply NO OX to see if the costs exceed the benefits

I have been all in since 12-2021 with nothing but good experiences so far including smoother and slower train operation than ever before.  I will stick to its use even if turns out track cleaning is not gone forever.

NO-OX Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

To clear up some concerns

NO-OX-ID Special A is a conductive grease and it reduces or eliminates sparking between the train wheels and electrical pickups with the train tracks.  Sparking is caused by micro, bigger track flaws and track section joints on the train track and wheels and pickups.  Some believe sparking attracts dust to the train tracks and dust accumulate on the track when contacting normal oil and grease from train maintenance.

Not really...

"The black crud is near 100% pure nickel oxide. Nickel (III) oxide to be specific."

https://forum.mrhmag.com/post/black-gunk-12186610

One might follow the graphite method... way easier than NO OX, but I do agree that NO OX works well.  As I said before, one should consider reading the links provided before in this thread.  It is very interesting and will take about two weeks to complete.  However, at the end you will have the knowledge you seek.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom

I doubt my used Marx and Lionel O27 track is nickel-silver or nickel plated steel.  I think it is tin plated steel as tin plating is much more common.

I believe a lot of that black gunk on the train wheels come from the sparking on the track and the oxidizing the grease and oil from lubrication as well as oxidation of dust on the track.  A lot of house hold dust is from cotton fabrics and paper dust, both organic and will result in black soot.

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Ton

I doubt my used Marx and Lionel O27 track is nickel-silver or nickel plated steel.  I think it is tin plated steel as tin plating is much more common.

I believe a lot of that black gunk on the train wheels come from the sparking on the track and the oxidizing the grease and oil from lubrication as well as oxidation of dust on the track.  A lot of house hold dust is from cotton fabrics and paper dust, both organic and will result in black soot.

Charlie

I can only report what I read in the analysis.  My guess is that metal oxide is metal oxide so for the Marx and Lionel track it would be the oxide of the tin plating or whatever metal it is.

All I can say is there is a wealth on knowledge in the links I gave and then links form those links.  It really is about two weeks of reading and well worth it before you apply the NO-OX because you might be interested in the horror stories.  It seems to really come down to environment and ease of application.  Graphite being be far the easiest with the least amount of traction problems.  Please don't get me wrong, NO-OX does work, but there are caveats.

A 2012 post in the MRH forum stated the NMRA was going to conduct an analysis of the black gunk, does anybody know if they have?  The post:

"I have asked the President of the NMRA, Charlie Getz if the NMRA can undertake investigations with the view to finding out about how this black / oily / muck/gunk comes about and what the rail manufacturers - Micro Engineering, Atlas, Peco etc can provide with formal information about their products.

Charlie has agreed and that the MR industry need to get onboard with this as it is in their best interests to do so.

Derik Voss (NMRA S&D Dept) has referred information from Tony's Train Exchange info files where a Mr Charlie Miller, a retired chemist, has information about the contamination on rails - a good read however incomplete."

The comments by Mr Miller are part of the sales ad for the CMX track cleaning car -- I'm not sure how objective they are.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

A 5 minute video:

https://trainmasters.tv/progra...ivity-curemp4-d9ac23

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

For those who subscribe to the theory that the black gunk on the rails is caused by electrical sparking, I leave you with the following information.

I have a Marx 2 rail tubular layout that I run only WINDUP trains.  All the wheels on the engines and cars are metal and there is no electricity running to any of the tracks.  I get the same amount of black gunk buildup on the windup layout as I do on my Lionel electric train tubular track layout.

@Former Member posted:

For those who subscribe to the theory that the black gunk on the rails is caused by electrical sparking, I leave you with the following information.

I have a Marx 2 rail tubular layout that I run only WINDUP trains.  All the wheels on the engines and cars are metal and there is no electricity running to any of the tracks.  I get the same amount of black gunk buildup on the windup layout as I do on my Lionel electric train tubular track layout.

Thanks David.  That is both interesting and strange.  With metal wheels and no electricity why would you get anything other than dust?  Static is the only thing I can think of, but I am perplexed...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

I've been using blocks of wood (1 x 3 cut about 4" long) and just rub it on rails by hand.  I did this for the first time around four/five months ago... and, used the same method again yesterday.  Yesterday, was a breeze... it took about and hour to do 250' of track ...no chemicals, no abrasives, no residual film/oils.  I've got some very clean & shiny track now.  I'm going to start vacuuming the track a couple times a month a see what sort of longevity I get out of that.

Traction tires,smoke fluid and lubricant leaks and dust in the air. I rarely clean my NS S gauge track after halting operation of engines with traction tires.

Gunny

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

  Yesterday, was a breeze... it took about and hour to do 250' of track ...

250 ft of windup railroad???  Wow!!!

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

It seams we have lots of ideas where black gunk on wheels and track come from.  Toms link above is from MRH and says chemical analysis's of track black gunk shows it is mostly metal oxides from micro arcing between the track and train wheels.  They also suggest the use of graphite for track treatment to eliminate arcing but cleaning and treatment has to be done each year.  But who cares what the gunk is?

We have a cure for the dirty track and wheels.  NO OX ID special A treatment applied properly will eliminate the arcing.  That is the most important news of all.  No arcing, no more track cleaning and better and slower running of our trains is a great bonus, worth the effort to clean track and wheels and apply NO OX once and forever more.

Charlie

I run my Trackman 2000 track cleaner with Scotchbrite pads on my Gargraves/Ross, no problem at all.  Since I need a dummy load for testing repairs, I just drag around the track cleaner.  Keeps stuff off the track, tests the repairs, and I spend zero time cleaning track.  What's not to like?

This NO OX ID grease is interesting stuff, especially on what Atlas track I own. I cleaned the rails for the first time with mineral spirits until I saw no residue on a clean rag. I did the finger application so I would only have a thin film and left that for 24 hours. Then I went around wiping off what was left. My old 2026 does run much better at low speed but I found it had no traction on the atlas rails and the little engine couldn't make it up my ~2% grade due to the drive wheels spinning badly. It took a second cleaning with mineral spirits to get the rest of the residue off those rails but the 2026 is climbing the hill with little effort. I have never been able to run this engine as slowly as I can now. The GG track and Ross switches didn't need this extra cleaning. This was the first real cleaning of that Atlas track but I'm left wondering if the NO OX ID pulled a bit more oxidation off of the track.

The two rail scale side of the hobby (HO mainly, some N, etc) swear by graphite sticks. Some of their testimonies indicate effective results.

No time to elaborate at the moment (off to church in a few for music practice prior to three services), but I can do so later if interested.

Andre