Norfolk Southern (Ohio) River Line?

Not too sure but they don't seem to send much up to Rochester, Pa. any more.  It has been a long time since I have seen a train come up the river.  Hopefully, someone will know more. I will ask a railfan friend.

...also...does CSX use the old B&O north of Pittsburgh in the same way CSX uses the Buckingham Branch...running empties and if the mainline is congested.

Not sure what you mean when you talk about CSX and the old B&O line north of Pgh.  Their main line now is the old P&LE that follows the Ohio R. then swings north towards New Castle, Pa. then west to Ohio. The old B&O went north  following Rt8  and through Evans City, Ellwood City then north to  New Castle. That line is now the Allegheny Valley to  Evans City then B&P. No, they don't use it to just run empties on either line.  I wrotee my friend about the NS but no answer yet. Hope this helps.

There are usually a few trains each week on the NS Ohio River Line.  Coal trains go to and from a mine outside of Powhatan Point, OH and head towards Mingo Junction.  They also drop off and pick up cars at the Ohio River Terminal Railroad interchange just south of Powhatan Point.  That short line serves a gas well facility that occupies the some of the old Ormet property.  We will even see the track geometry and load testing trains from time to time.

Since I am retired I don't get down that way very often but,I do know, there are regionals in that area now. Of course, a lot of the industry is gone, too.  At one time I watched an NS switcher working the  Pa. side of the Ohio.  The CSX mainline doesn't get congested enough to use the old line. It is still single track from Beaver Falls to Wampum which holds things up sometimes. If Shell builds the big chemical plant at Monaca, and they have moved hundreds of tons of dirt, then traffic will increase and change. That will be interesting.

"I assume the portion that trains from the Bayard branch would use sees daily traffic?  So no daily locals or manifest down beyond Mingo Jct?  The track is in very good shape at least to Mingo."

I'm not sure where the Bayard branch is, so I cannot answer that question.  As far as I know there are no daily locals further south unless they would stop short of our area before heading back north.  There are just a few trains each week and that even varies that make it this far south.  Sometimes more, sometimes less.  That being said, they are supposed to start construction on a cracker plant in Dilles Bottom, OH which is south of Shadyside, but north of Powhatan Point (right across the river from Moundsville, WV next to the interchange with WV State Route 2).  If/once that plant is built, I've been told by an NS engineer that I know that there would most likely be a train or more a day to service it.

The Wheeling & Lake Erie takes several trains a week across the river to the CSX yard outside of Benwood and McMechen, WV.  They also change out cars at a facility on the north end of Bellaire, OH.  I believe they have other stops along the way before then even get that far south.

There is more activity than one would expect.  One interesting item is the Wonder Bread facility in Martins Ferry Ohio.  I'm not sure if the NS or Ohio Central service that facility.  They do stop traffic on State Rt 7 when they are switching out Hoppers.  I've seen several small units both north and south for the Terminal RR in Monroe County.  Also there is a neat crossover just south of the 48TH RT 7 street exit on the east side of the highway that can be seen from the northbound lane (rt 7) where there is a semaphore signal where the old B&O crosses over the NS (Or Ohio Central)  Can only see it from the road if you are driving a pick up truck and in the right hand lane.

Larry

I forgot about the Wonder Bread factory in Martins Ferry. NS services that facility but not on a daily basis. The Ohio Central does not even come close to the area.

Bayard Branch AKA Cleveland Line of NS.  Trains head left from the Ft Wayne Line at the diamond in Alliance and head down the Bayard branch.  They can sneak into Conway without hitting the ACS Mainline.   All these worn out rust belt lines intrigue me.  They are clearly all built for heavy traffic yet have the look of lines that have seen better days. I am also intrigued by lines (OH River and MON-Line) that start with double track CTC and eventually end in the middle of nowhere.  

Another line of interest is the CONRAIL line headed from Grafton WV up to Morgantown and on into Pittsburgh.  I assume daily coal trains? or even less these days?   Such good routes I would hate to see closed due to the coal decline.

jim pastorius posted:

Since I am retired I don't get down that way very often but,I do know, there are regionals in that area now. Of course, a lot of the industry is gone, too.  At one time I watched an NS switcher working the  Pa. side of the Ohio.  The CSX mainline doesn't get congested enough to use the old line. It is still single track from Beaver Falls to Wampum which holds things up sometimes. If Shell builds the big chemical plant at Monaca, and they have moved hundreds of tons of dirt, then traffic will increase and change. That will be interesting.

How many daily trains use the B&O/P&LE through Pittsburgh?  Certainly at least 45...the same that would pass through Harpers Ferry?  Willard SUB can see 100 daily trains so where do the extras come from?  The Water Level Route?

Maybe  from the Chambersburg area where they have an intermodal yard. 

mountain482 posted:

I forgot about the Wonder Bread factory in Martins Ferry. NS services that facility but not on a daily basis. The Ohio Central does not even come close to the area.

Does the Ohio Central get to Bellaire.  I believe the NS is closer to Route 7 and the Ohio Central is closer to the Ohio River.  

Mike W. posted:

jim pastorius posted:

Since I am retired I don't get down that way very often but,I do know, there are regionals in that area now. Of course, a lot of the industry is gone, too.  At one time I watched an NS switcher working the  Pa. side of the Ohio.  The CSX mainline doesn't get congested enough to use the old line. It is still single track from Beaver Falls to Wampum which holds things up sometimes. If Shell builds the big chemical plant at Monaca, and they have moved hundreds of tons of dirt, then traffic will increase and change. That will be interesting.

How many daily trains use the B&O/P&LE through Pittsburgh?  Certainly at least 45...the same that would pass through Harpers Ferry?  

Mike, from what I have witnessed at Greenwich,ohio,,the new castle sub would have closer to 25 a day....

I would guess that the 25 number is closer to reality right now.  From what I see of the NS mainline they keep it nice. They just replaced a whole lot of ties on the Youngstown Secondary  from New Brighton  north to West Pittsburg(New Castle). 

"Does the Ohio Central get to Bellaire.  I believe the NS is closer to Route 7 and the Ohio Central is closer to the Ohio River."

No.  The Ohio Central never gets to Bellaire or the Ohio River.  The closest point that the Ohio Central gets to either is Zanesville, which is about an hour away by highway (I-70).  See the link below for a G&W map of their railroads in Ohio which includes the Ohio Central (shown as OHCR on the map).  Bellaire is in Belmont County (far right next to WV state line) for a point of perspective on the map.

https://www.gwrr.com/customers...shale/ohio_railroads

NS & W&LE follow Route 7 for the most part in our area.  There are occasional offshoots as would be expected for customers.  The W&LE then crosses over the old B&O bridge in Bellaire into West Virginia where it interchanges with CSX.  NS continues south past Powhatan Point where it interchanges with the Ohio River Terminal Railroad.

Are there some chemical plants down around Marietta ??  I really like that area.

Jim, there are some chemical plants south of Marietta.

mountain482 posted:

"Does the Ohio Central get to Bellaire.  I believe the NS is closer to Route 7 and the Ohio Central is closer to the Ohio River."

No.  The Ohio Central never gets to Bellaire or the Ohio River.  The closest point that the Ohio Central gets to either is Zanesville, which is about an hour away by highway (I-70).  See the link below for a G&W map of their railroads in Ohio which includes the Ohio Central (shown as OHCR on the map).  Bellaire is in Belmont County (far right next to WV state line) for a point of perspective on the map.

https://www.gwrr.com/customers...shale/ohio_railroads

NS & W&LE follow Route 7 for the most part in our area.  There are occasional offshoots as would be expected for customers.  The W&LE then crosses over the old B&O bridge in Bellaire into West Virginia where it interchanges with CSX.  NS continues south past Powhatan Point where it interchanges with the Ohio River Terminal Railroad.

I was getting the Wheeling and Lake Erie RR confused with Ohio Central.  The W&LE is along the Ohio Rived and goes to Benwood WV via the GSV bridge in Bellaire Ohio.  Thanks for getting my confusion straightened out!

Larry

No problem, Larry.  I wondered if you might be confusing the W&LE and the OHCR.

jim pastorius posted:

I would guess that the 25 number is closer to reality right now.  From what I see of the NS mainline they keep it nice. They just replaced a whole lot of ties on the Youngstown Secondary  from New Brighton  north to West Pittsburg(New Castle). 

Is this the same as the NS Youngstown line?  Does it see steady traffic and intermodal?

Yes, it is the Youngstown line.  It doesn't see much traffic especially now with the slow down in business. No intermodals, not enough clearance. At New Brighton where the Beaver flows towards the Ohio the Y-town line curves real sharp and ducks under the  main line. Across the river there is the CSX main. I like the area for photos because of the traffic but running out of new spots to shoot from.  With warmer weather it will give more flexibility on standing at various spots.

jim pastorius posted:

Are there some chemical plants down around Marietta ??  I really like that area.

The plants south of Marietta are served by CSX.

At one time, there were plans to extend the PRR line south from the Omal aluminum plant, all the way to Marietta. In fact, when Interstate 77 was built, there was a large metal corrugated tunnel installed in the earth fill, leading up to the new I77 bridge over the Ohio. This was installed so when the line came down along the river, it could get into Marietta and connect to the old PRR Marietta branch. Of course, the line was never built and the tunnel was removed in the early 90's I believe.

Jeff

jim pastorius posted:

Not sure what you mean when you talk about CSX and the old B&O line north of Pgh.  Their main line now is the old P&LE that follows the Ohio R. then swings north towards New Castle, Pa. then west to Ohio. The old B&O went north  following Rt8  and through Evans City, Ellwood City then north to  New Castle. That line is now the Allegheny Valley to  Evans City then B&P. No, they don't use it to just run empties on either line.  I wrotee my friend about the NS but no answer yet. Hope this helps.

Well the P&LE CSX Line on the south side of the river is single track in some places...the only place on the whole East Coast to Chicago B&O route that has single track.  I assumed CSX might still use the old B&O north of Pittsburgh to run freights as well to ease congestion.  Freights without clearance issues.  Similar to how NS splits the river...running high clearance trains south of the river and the rest through Union Station.  The old B&O north of Pittsburgh is still CTC and nice welded rail.  More than is needed for the short line that uses it.

With the oil and gas (fracking) in Eastern Ohio booming, the NS has alot of traffic south of Bellaire Oh.  Still have some coal from out Captina creek, but it seems that the majority of traffic is for the Oil and Gas Industry with the terminal at Hannibal Ohio.   

Larry

A shortline railroad operator took over operation of that line quite a few years ago. They operate from Powhatan Point, down to the old aluminum plant. The aluminum plant property has been turned into a reload facility/industrial park. I can not remember the name of the shortline operator who is running this line.

ike W. posted

Well the P&LE CSX Line on the south side of the river is single track in some places...the only place on the whole East Coast to Chicago B&O route that has single track.  I assumed CSX might still use the old B&O north of Pittsburgh to run freights as well to ease congestion.  Freights without clearance issues.  Similar to how NS splits the river...running high clearance trains south of the river and the rest through Union Station.  The old B&O north of Pittsburgh is still CTC and nice welded rail.  More than is needed for the short line that uses it.

You are obviously not familiar with the stretch of single track (about 2 miles) that runs through the recently deroofed Shoofly and Pinkerton Tunnels between Confluence and Rockwood,PA. on the west slope of Sand Patch. The old tunnels were widened for double track in the 1890s, but were singletracked in the 1960s for TOFC and Autoracks. The new cuts that replaced the tunnels have room for double track, but CSX has not done anything yet to fill in this gap.

The signal system on the x-P&W sub is gone, there are no signals even at Eidenau Jct. where the former Buffalo line (now B&P) came in. I believe CSX was very eager to give the operational headaches of the P&W sub to someone else.

I lived in that area all my life. The P&W was originally narrow gauge  and, initially, CSX wanted to abandon it but there were enough complaints from some industry to save it.  Strictly  shortline railroading but fun to photograph. A freight by-pass-no !!

What is being built at the end of the Ohio River East bank CSX Spur right under I376 West of Pittsburgh (near Conway).

On the CSX side of the Ohio River is where the new Shell chemical plant is being built.  Using frack gas for plastic pellets. It will be big for CSX.  They have literally reshaped the landscape of the earth.

Thanks.  Thats the site....huge space.

CSX is also in the process of spending multi-millions of $$$ in developing & building a large intermodal terminal in the McKees Rocks bottoms area,  with most of the property being the old P&LE yard area.

Nick