NS auction

Hmm.  Nah; I don't think I could sneak any of that into the basement.  ;-)

Curt

"Look Honey, what I found!! " With circus trains being sold off, I wonder how soft the RR car market is.  I would go after one but my RR is 3 rails !!

Why are they doing that? I thought they needed them for 611? Maybe VMT should buy them in order to have a coach set for 611. NS stated that 611 will be allowed back for more excursions next year.

I read about it and was confirmed on the "Altoona Works" website. The guy works there and knows what is going on. After CSX, I think these companies want to slim down to make stock holders happier. How many of these cars do they have ??

Robert K posted:

Why are they doing that?

Because the NS sponsored "21st Century Steam Program" is long finished, and they no longer need these 5 coaches. Also, the 5 coaches up for sale, are NOT Amtrak compliant!

I thought they needed them for 611?

No, "they" don't. See above answer.

Maybe VMT should buy them in order to have a coach set for 611.

Does the VMT ave THAT much money?

NS stated that 611 will be allowed back for more excursions next year.

Sort of, as possible Amtrak sponsored excursions, thus using Amtrak insurance.

So NS is unloading them because they have no need for them because their program ended? But for the past two years they were being used for the 611 excursions, and they looked good behind the 611 with their red color. What will 611 use in the future besides dome cars? Amfleets? The Mid America coaches? Did the NS program end because Wick Moorman retired from his CEO position at NS or was it planned to end after 2015? Now I'm glad I rode two 765 trips in PA because I will probably never have the opportunity again to ride behind it close to home. In fact the one trip went through the city near where I live, Allentown, PA it went from near Bethlehem to Pittston and back with a stop at Jim Thorpe on the return. The track from Bethlehem to Jim Thorpe and  several miles north is very rare mileage that you can't normally ride unless you're an NS engineer. The rest of the route is Reading and Northern which has excursions every year some with 425. Wick would probably be happy to host 611 under Amtrak's umbrella but he is retiring at the end of the year. Bev Fitzpatrick is also leaving VMT due to retirement. There was an article about that VMT wants to expand 611's reach, that is take it to more areas to run excursions outside VA and NC. I'm sure that would be with Amtrak's help. What was the whole purpose of the 21st Century Steam program? Was it just to celebrate some milestones of NS like their 30th anniversary in 2012, etc. then come to an end after a few years of public excursions? I thought NS was rebooting a new steam program that would last 10-20 years or more but I guess not. At least the 611 might still be able to run excursions on NS.

Robert K posted:

So NS is unloading them because they have no need for them because their program ended? But for the past two years they were being used for the 611 excursions, and they looked good behind the 611 with their red color. What will 611 use in the future besides dome cars? Amfleets? The Mid America coaches? Did the NS program end because Wick Moorman retired from his CEO position at NS or was it planned to end after 2015? Now I'm glad I rode two 765 trips in PA because I will probably never have the opportunity again to ride behind it close to home. In fact the one trip went through the city near where I live, Allentown, PA it went from near Bethlehem to Pittston and back with a stop at Jim Thorpe on the return. The track from Bethlehem to Jim Thorpe and  several miles north is very rare mileage that you can't normally ride unless you're an NS engineer. The rest of the route is Reading and Northern which has excursions every year some with 425. Wick would probably be happy to host 611 under Amtrak's umbrella but he is retiring at the end of the year. Bev Fitzpatrick is also leaving VMT due to retirement. There was an article about that VMT wants to expand 611's reach, that is take it to more areas to run excursions outside VA and NC. I'm sure that would be with Amtrak's help.

As usual, you ask WAY TOO MANY questions that can NOT be answered on this forum. You should do a LOT more research, as for one thing, Mr. Moorman is no longer CEO of Amtrak. 

"Wick would probably be happy to host 611 under Amtrak's umbrella but he is retiring at the end of the year."

as he stated.......

The 21st Century Steam Program was always about celebrating Norfolk Southern's 30th anniversary and was always planned to end pretty much what it did, and the 611 was sort of a last minute add-on to the program anyway.  Rich can tell us for sure, but I was always under the impression that the non-NS employee runs that were a quasi part of 21st Century Steam was more or less a payback to the operators like the FWRHS that participated in the program, and that they would only be able to operate under that umbrella for a very short time.  How different the situation would be if Wick was still running NS I can't say, but I don't think the situation we had for a few years would have continued indefinitely.  NS, even under the new administration has been VERY cooperative under the circumstances, and we should ALL go out of our way to be appreciative of it.  As for the passenger cars, I wish NS would have either kept them, (inside storage could have been arranged), OR put them out on long term loan to one of the steam operators, but it's their money, and they are free to try to recover some of the investment they put into them.  We must remember how different the railroad business climate is now than when this whole program kicked off.  I have serious doubt that the NS board would ever even allow a program like 21st Century under the current climate.

I agree 100%. To think the NS program would go on indefinitely  is dreaming. 

Robert K posted:

So NS is unloading them because they have no need for them because their program ended? But for the past two years they were being used for the 611 excursions, and they looked good behind the 611 with their red color. What will 611 use in the future besides dome cars? Amfleets?

Yes, NS is selling them because they have no further need for them, Future steam excursions on NS will all be Amtrak trains, and these cars are not Amtrak certified.

Dieselbob posted:

"...I wish NS would have either kept them, (inside storage could have been arranged), OR put them out on long term loan to one of the steam operators, but it's their money, and they are free to try to recover some of the investment they put into them.

Loaning them to someone serves no business purpose for NS. Selling them makes the most business sense for NS. They will likely end up in the hands of an excursion operator that can use them in a non-Amtrak scenario.

Again, these cars are not Amtrak certified, and it would take a lot of money and time to get them certified for use on Amtrak. Since all future excursions on NS will be Amtrak trains, all the equipment used on those trains must meet Amtrak standards. These cars don't.

Why don't they meet Amtrak standards?  Are their standards for passenger equipment much higher? Tight lock couplers, HEP, etc. are required on Amtrak? Are the dome cars, etc. that were a part of the NS excursion fleet the past few years Amtrak certified? The Dover Harbor? So NS bought the coaches from ConnDOT just to refurbish them, use them on steam excursions for a few years then get rid of them? I kind of knew NS wasn't going to be like RBMN all of a sudden and run steam trips every year for the next 20 years. That's why I rode two 765 excursions in PA. The Horseshoe Curve and Allentown-Pittston. I knew in the back of my mind they were going to be one shot deals. I also rode behind 611 last year from Manassas. I'm glad I got to ride them though. The other runs like by TVRM, were too far away for me. At least 611 might still be allowed to run on NS with Amtrak, plus next year 2102 might return on RBMN. I want to ride behind 2102 again. I only rode behind it twice, South Hamburg to Temple April 1988 and Emmaus-Pennsburg Sept. 1991.

Robert K posted:

Why don't they meet Amtrak standards?

Because they were never upgraded to Amtrak standards.

 Are their standards for passenger equipment much higher?

YES.

Tight lock couplers, HEP, etc. are required on Amtrak?

YES.

Are the dome cars, etc. that were a part of the NS excursion fleet the past few years Amtrak certified?

YES.

The Dover Harbor?

YES.

So NS bought the coaches from ConnDOT just to refurbish them, use them on steam excursions for a few years then get rid of them?

YES.

Are we done now?

I guess it's timing. You Rich got to spend your last few years behind 765's throttle while 765 was roaming all over NS on excursions. Wick Moorman got to spend the last few years as NS CEO while the 21st Century program was going on. Now you and Wick are retired or retiring in the case of Wick. Bev Fitzpatrick is also retiring from VMT. I guess this means that   I'll probably never see 765 in person again, but I'm glad I did, twice. Unless Steamtown invites you back. There you ran on a non-NS railroad that already hosts Steamtown excursion trains. But VMT wants to take 611 to more places for excursions in the future, and NS stated they are open to more excursions in 2018. I guess that will be VMT working with Amtrak in cooperation with NS for track usage rights.

Robert K posted:

"...NS stated they are open to more excursions in 2018..."

Only if they are Amtrak trains.

The ARR puts locos into storage for the winter - wonder if they really picked some up?