Older k-line transformer, not compatible with Williams engines?

Please provide exact models of the transformer and the locomotives in question.  Does the Williams engine run with other transformers?

I wouldn't look first to the transformer - it is known to work.

The engine is not known to work and is displaying symptoms of a malfunction - that should be your prime suspect.

If you happen to have another AC transformer, it couldn't hurt to try it out.

K-Line had a flirtation with DC power, as did Lionel.  Just checking to see what equipment he really has.

If it's the set transformer with the knob off/on it is not big enough to run the Williams engine.

 

Jim 1939 posted:

If it's the set transformer with the knob off/on it is not big enough to run the Williams engine.

 

That's exactly the transformer that I'm using.  Will one of those old seventies era Lionel transformers work better?   I have two of them. 

Yes

   E unit locked in N?  Dual motors wired in series? Converted to dc or bad rectifier? Converted to pantograph operation? 

   If it isn't a sine wave transformer, that can mess with some boards(esp early MTH) . I'm not sure that isn't a square wave or other pulse mod.transformer either.

  Williams made a lot of GG-1 and the internals varied over the decades, more so than Lionel.  K-line info isnt readily available anymore, it takes searching today.  You'll likely need to list more info on exactly what equipment/specs you have IMO.  The hum for instance is a "hu-junka-junka-skree-skee-pop" discription for your mechanics.  It could be an e unit or a motor hum... we only know it's not where we can reach it

So tonight I took some time.  I hooked up the Lionel transformer.  No go.  I then took the Shell off of the Williams engine.  Has sound and two can motors with flywheels . Could barely spin the motors by twisting the flywheels . Added a tiny bit of lubrication to the gears and spun them . They eventually loosened up.  Once they got loosened, I was able to put the engine on the track and it started moving after five minutes, the engine was running beautifully.  I think that the engine just sat in the box for many years and the lube just hardened up.  Thanks to everyone!!!

 

Also I agree that the kline transformer just isn't enough amps to push that large engine.  Funny how much heavier and larger the Williams is over the Kline.   

bobotech posted:

...Could barely spin the motors by twisting the flywheels . Added a tiny bit of lubrication to the gears and spun them . They eventually loosened up.  Once they got loosened, I was able to put the engine on the track and it started moving after five minutes, the engine was running beautifully...

 

I would get those motors out and lube the trucks and worm gear & worm wheel. Lucas works wonders in these locos. The factory lube is often poorly placed, inadequate, or missing.

It's always good to see an adventure result in success. Enjoy your trains.

   Hardened lube is an old foe. Adding lube really isn't enough though. The hard lube only gets harder and will cause gear wear.  It should be scooped out and flushed out, then repacked with new lube. Good synthetics should not harden up like the old lubes did, spend the extra bucks

Old transformers ... it depends on the size. Some are only 25-50w. I'd say you want at least a 1033(90w). An LW, KW, VW, ZW even better yet.  Any prewar version over 90w works too (except most have no whistle controller, watch close  

And fyi, VA (volt amp) and amps are not the same thing. 6-7a at 15v is ok (1033), but more power is better. VA is closer to watts, numerically, but still less as the "power factor" in the va math chops it down from watts (real vs apparent power). So you'd need over 100va at 15v to get about even with a 1033 90w.

The LW is the strongest single handle unit out there.    I.e. two LWs are more power than a KW or VW per handle. Using one handle the KW, VW, is stronger than a lone LW. The ZW is king unless you divide by it's four handles. On one throttle, it takes real effort use all the ZWs power.

Adriatic posted:

   Hardened lube is an old foe. Adding lube really isn't enough though. The hard lube only gets harder and will cause gear wear.  It should be scooped out and flushed out, then repacked with new lube. Good synthetics should not harden up like the old lubes did, spend the extra bucks

Old transformers ... it depends on the size. Some are only 25-50w. I'd say you want at least a 1033(90w). An LW, KW, VW, ZW even better yet.  Any prewar version over 90w works too (except most have no whistle controller, watch close  

And fyi, VA (volt amp) and amps are not the same thing. 6-7a at 15v is ok (1033), but more power is better. VA is closer to watts, numerically, but still less as the "power factor" in the va math chops it down from watts (real vs apparent power). So you'd need over 100va at 15v to get about even with a 1033 90w.

The LW is the strongest single handle unit out there.    I.e. two LWs are more power than a KW or VW per handle. Using one handle the KW, VW, is stronger than a lone LW. The ZW is king unless you divide by it's four handles. On one throttle, it takes real effort use all the ZWs power.

My local train guy has a zw (I think?) for sale for 150.  It is the model with the 4 handles on it, the drawback is that 2 of the handles are broken off but other than that, the transformer is fully operational.  Is $150 for that transformer reasonable? 

150 for a Good ZW would be about right. Not so for one that needs parts. 

$150 seems high unless it's been completely gone through and is guaranteed.

I bought a totally refurbished ZW from my LHS with a one-year store warranty a couple years ago for $200.  $150 for a broken one seems too high.

Too high. For about that price, maybe a tad more, or less, you can find warrantied rebuilds, sometimes in a Lionel box. Area prices vary too. Some places I think about $100-140 nice used, and about $50 more in other cities/states. Warranty is almost a bonus. I don't see a lot of price difference to be honest. Maybe an extra $20-50 if there is a even a difference. (before the mfgs went big again for making new power supplies, it took me months to find a rebuilt KW under $220. ZWs were fetching $300+ IF you could find one. I think that overpricing has kinda stuck around. I think they should really fetch about 40% of a ZW-L if that) Even at $80 local, I'd check for rebuild ability. ( I paid $35 for a prewar Z, crappy exterior & knobs, but clean inside and not abused...sold!) Even rebuilt, I'd anounce my intentions to the seller; I always pop the top and inspect the windings for wear. Every bit of winding wear is less power. When rollers wear out, the arms tend to saw quickly at the copper; that'a very bad. Arms will be discolored and blackened slightly from heat if it was abused electrically too. Slight color change is almost normal; rainbow&black might mean trouble.(not always). If it's sealed and can't be inspected inside without voiding a warranty, I'd pass.

The guy at York sells nice refurbished ZWs for about $125 - 135, but his name escapes me.  Harry Welz, or something like that?  I've bought a few from him with good results.  Maybe someone can chime in with his name and contact info.

Postwar transformers are a dime a dozen these days - not many people use them, but a few of us still do.

Problem with getting one is shipping - they're heavy and somewhat fragile, so you really need to find one in person.  

BTW, I sold a functional but scratched ZW here on the forum for $50 + shipping a year ago, and their value has definitely not increased since then.