Passenger train length

One thing I did besides cleaning the track and loco was to oil the axles on all my old passenger cars (and freight cars too) making sure I could spin each wheel freely with my finger.  This greatly improved performance.  These were postwar and postwar style cars before they started making the modern pointed axles which have less friction, but still worth checking.

Clean track, free rolling cars, and adding weight inside the shell of that locomotive will keep it pulling 8 cars effortlessly 

AXP889 posted:

One thing I did besides cleaning the track and loco was to oil the axles on all my old passenger cars (and freight cars too) making sure I could spin each wheel freely with my finger.  This greatly improved performance.  These were postwar and postwar style cars before they started making the modern pointed axles which have less friction, but still worth checking.

Yes, I was oiling them as I pulled these off the shelves and put them on the Christmas layout. I was a bit eager and think some oil may have dripped onto the tracks.

I can't imagine why a properly running dual motored diesel can't pull those cars and a lot more.

Here's two Legacy U28C locomotives pulling 115 cars!  They managed to do so on the level track and also up the 2% grade.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I can't imagine why a properly running dual motored diesel can't pull those cars and a lot more.

Here's two Legacy U28C locomotives pulling 115 cars!  They managed to do so on the level track and also up the 2% grade.

Wow, now that's impressive.  I'm only looking for 10% of that load behind these!  Granted, the passenger cars were lighted which probably draws some power away but I'm betting on dirty track and oil on the track from having just oiled up the passenger car axles.  Historically my WBB GG1 pulled 6 MTH O27 passenger cars effortlessly.

raising4daughters posted:

Granted, the passenger cars were lighted which probably draws some power away but I'm betting on dirty track and oil on the track from having just oiled up the passenger car axles.  

Power draw often can be cured by increasing the throttle.   But if your wheels are spinning, that's not the problem. Regarding oil dripping off the car axles onto the track, don't forget that lubrication instructions always emphasize only applying a tiny amount of oil for lubrication purposes. The word frequently used is to apply sparingly, with that word emphasized. That's all it takes. Lubrication oil (and grease) getting on anything other than that which stays on the cars and engines, can create problems in lots of places.

Yep, any oil on the track or wheels can be a huge issue.  Other than that, I can't imagine a dual-motored unit not being able to pull a dozen passenger cars.

Well, I will make one exception, the MTH Aerotrain.  That is a real oddball and might actually have a problem with that load.

Do they have traction tires? Rubber and oil 

riki posted:

Do they have traction tires? Rubber and oil 

Yes, traction tires. Think we found the culprit.

It’s redundant but My WBB GG1 is pulling 15 feet of cars now. I doubt I could stress it. Mean nasty stuff, that dirt and oil are. 

Oil on the tires?  That would be my first guess.

Is the GG1 a semi-scale or full scale model ?   As GRJ said, any dual motored loco should have no problem with the cars you mentioned.  I'm glad you found the issue.  

Sixteen coaches long, according to Elvis.

Dan Padova posted:

Is the GG1 a semi-scale or full scale model ?   As GRJ said, any dual motored loco should have no problem with the cars you mentioned.  I'm glad you found the issue.  

It's the semi-scale version. Had been running strong. Think I was too liberal with grease and oil.....lesson learned.

Now you have figure out how to get oil out of the rubber. Q tip. With a good rubber cleaner.

Without attacking the glue ..guys on here can explain what they do and use.

Spinning or stalling should be an easy enough diagnosis.

If you are indeed stalling; check the motors and if o.k. consider wiring the motors in series. You'll have more torque, but a lower top end (a LOT of Williams have seen this mod over the years)

CRC electrical cleaner on a rag for the track (leaves an antirust coat)

Other solvents are ok but also strip metal of trace oils; protectants. I often follow them with a light wipe of Wahl hair clipper oil and final dry-wipe. The clipper oil is very light and not very slick so a happy balance is pretty easily achieved.😉

Tires suffer from almost any solvent. I'd use soap and water and dry fully and quickly (hair drier) followed by clipper oil (on the metal, via Q-tip).... Dried fast and fully then oiled; water is of little worry.  It's ok on metal unless it sits.

Or maybe try the CRC? (after reading the can 😜)   I've seen no change or damage with CRC on wire coatings{painted nor "rubber"} or electronic plastics though. (never sprayed a car/loco body 🤔)

If you have a small can motor in each truck, You are approaching the limit of the engine. Servicing of the rolling stock and engines is important.

I switched to a Williams GG1 with a vertical motor in each truck and have had no pulling problems since. I run a 13 car Amtrac train of short cars.

I would think it's a too much oil issue. I have a Lionel 2343 F3 with twin horizontal motors (and added TMCC) from 1952 and a reissue 2343 from 1996 with twin vertical motors and TMCC. Both will pull 2 dummy B units, a dummy A unit, and 8 16" aluminum passenger cars on level track without an issue. No traction tires, just Magnetraction. 

Lou1985 posted:

I have a Lionel 2343 F3 with twin horizontal motors (and added TMCC) from 1952 and a reissue 2343 from 1996 with twin vertical motors and TMCC. Both will pull 2 dummy B units, a dummy A unit, and 8 16" aluminum passenger cars on level track without an issue. No traction tires, just Magnetraction. 

One small correction - the 2343 from 1996 had twin Pullmor ac motors, not twin vertical motors (which term is usually used to designate vertical dc can motors).

riki posted:

Now you have figure out how to get oil out of the rubber. Q tip. With a good rubber cleaner.

Or just replace the traction tires.

My '52  2343ABBA pulls 12PW passenger cars of the 2500 series pres & congress. all aluminum 16".  They are heavy.  All on a single grade with no problem. All the cars & engine, "B" units all the lights have been switch to LED.  At 12V it pulls 4.6A. over 125' of old lionel "O" ga track.  Saved 1.5A or 18W.  when switching to LED.  I use RNT on my worm gears and axle gears.  Use hoppes gun oil on wheels. I  use a 50 weight syn in oil holes on motor housing.  Runs like a bear.  The motors get real worm but not "hot".   It would pull more.           GRJ: that 115 car train is impressive.    Rob

breezinup posted:

Lou1985 posted:

I have a Lionel 2343 F3 with twin horizontal motors (and added TMCC) from 1952 and a reissue 2343 from 1996 with twin vertical motors and TMCC. Both will pull 2 dummy B units, a dummy A unit, and 8 16" aluminum passenger cars on level track without an issue. No traction tires, just Magnetraction. 

One small correction - the 2343 from 1996 had twin Pullmor ac motors, not twin vertical motors (which term is usually used to designate vertical dc can motors).

1948-1955 F3s had horizontal motors. 1955-end of AC motored F3 production they had vertical motors: https://www.tandem-associates....neldiesels.htm#EMDF3 

Pullmor motors are just AC motors. 

Should be able to pull that with no problem, as others have said. It sounds like excess lubrication is the guilty party, I suspect if you clean the track and the traction tires you will be good.  The only other thing I could think of would be if the motors in the engine are bad or binding, but I doubt that. In a traditional pullmor motor worn brushes and/or a dirty commutator could cause the engine to lack power, but in your case that can't be the cause