American flyer station finished!

great pieces!! can't wait to see the restoration finished on these.

Nice AF pieces.

Those pieces look like fun.  

In general, how was the show?  Approximately how many tables, attendees, etc.?  Would you have driven to it if it was held, say, in Newport, RI or out on the Cape?  I ask because I'm about that far away and I've heard reports that Greenbergs shows of the past few years have been more about dolls and HO trains than tinplate.

Please let us know your thoughts.

Thanks.

Steven J. Serenska

nice finds! I keep meaning to grab one of those Marx bridges.

Serenska posted:

Those pieces look like fun.  

In general, how was the show?  Approximately how many tables, attendees, etc.?  Would you have driven to it if it was held, say, in Newport, RI or out on the Cape?  I ask because I'm about that far away and I've heard reports that Greenbergs shows of the past few years have been more about dolls and HO trains than tinplate.

Please let us know your thoughts.

Thanks.

Steven J. Serenska

All depends on what your idea of a good show is!  Today I found some cool stuff I've been looking for so it was a good show for me!  Tinplate depending on what your looking for can be hit or miss.  Not much in the way of newer tinplate but there was plenty of older pre war pieces.  The problem with that is the usual suspects think they have gold on there hands and there prices reflect that.   More in the way of toy's than I need to see and there was a lot of die cast cars and trucks.  If you have kids it is worth the trip and you never know what you may stumble over for yourself. There is the usual operating layouts including the LEGO layout.  Those Guy's do some cool stuff with LEGO's!  Definitely not the LEGO's I played with as a kid! Distance for me is literally 2 miles away.   That makes up for the 7 hour drive when I go to York!  

Chris:

Thanks.  I think you've answered my question; I have heard the same about the amount of toys (vs. trains) at these shows.  If it was 2 miles from my house, I would have gone also.  I'd be interested to know if you'd drive to Hyannis, say, to see the exact same show if it was held there vs. 2 miles away.

I hear you about York. I was just investigating how I was going to make the 6-7 hour trip myself.  I have had good luck in the past with Amtrak (i.e., sit and work vs. sit and do nothing but drive), but they've raised their rates and getting to and from York will now cost about $250.  So I'm still not sure about getting to Spring York....

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Steven J. Serenska

If I had to drive to Hyannis No.  I have taken Amtrak to York as well. Nice way to travel most of the time but I need to save some vacation time for my son coming home on leave from the US NAVY this summer.  I am planing to go in October. 

Chris,

I love the AF Station!  I have seen them on eBay, but don't like it for what they were charging.  I ended up settling for a Lionel 122, but I still like yours better.

George

Thanks George. I may have a problem finding the parts I need but we'll see. 

Hey Chris ,

You picked up some nice finds there, I really like the signal. It's condition is way better than any I Have seen at any west coast shows. I have two and have be wanted two more. The few I have seen at shows are really rough and they want $25-$30 each and wiring is usally a mess. I am not sure I would even touch that one. Looks really nice!

Congratulations!

JoeG

Chris,

Nice finds--that signal is one of my favorites. I went to the Wilmington show last year & enjoyed it; schedule conflict this year, otherwise I'd have been there.

Trainlover160 posted:

Hey Chris ,

You picked up some nice finds there, I really like the signal. It's condition is way better than any I Have seen at any west coast shows. I have two and have be wanted two more. The few I have seen at shows are really rough and they want $25-$30 each and wiring is usally a mess. I am not sure I would even touch that one. Looks really nice!

 

Congratulations!

JoeG

 

You don't see many of them so when I spotted this it was a no brainier! I didn't do too much to it. Just changed the color of the lamp holders to red and cleaned up the pole and base with a fresh coat of Hunter green and touched up the rims around the lenses.  I'll post a pic when it's all dry and reassembled.  

I am really surprised that LCT has not issued a new version of this signal, since they have made so many others. It is really desirable in the tinplate world and believe these would sell.

JoeG

Joe G,

   You bet I like the signal pole also and the one Chris picked up is in seriously nice shape!

Great find Chris.

PCRR/Dave

1 Down 2 to go!  Here is the signal finished and wired. The outside rims around the lenses have been painted and I changed the color of the lamp holders and went with a similar hunter green. This was a repaint I believe when I bought it so I wasn't covering up an original paint job. 

Great pic and nice job!

Chris, great job on the refurb/repaint.  Looking forward to seeing your work on the other items.

Trainlover160 posted:

I am really surprised that LCT has not issued a new version of this signal, since they have made so many others. It is really desirable in the tinplate world and believe these would sell.

JoeG

First thanks for the kind words guy's.     Yes Joe I agree these should be made! LCT already has the tooling for the pole which I believe is the same for the telegraph pole less the terminals but I'm not sure about the lamp holders that slip onto it?

The new green and red look great Chris.  Lithographed tinplate is hard to restore, you have to pretty much just be careful and work around it, don't you?  Fortunately it's often in better shape than the enamel.  The station came out well, nice going!

d

Not much you can do with the litho. Just clean it up and that's about it.  I bought the station because the litho was in pretty good shape I knew I could do something with the rest. 

Does anyone know why or how it is that old tinplate enamel is often badly flaking or peeling while the lithography on the same piece is not?  Even Ives with its chronic severe paint flaking usually has no problems with the lithography.  They are applied to the same tinned sheet metal surface.  Was there some kind of a prep to the lithographed surface, while the enameled surfaces seem to have been unprimed?

It's pretty clear why the enamel flaked: I'm wondering why the litho didn't.

d

hojack posted:

Does anyone know why or how it is that old tinplate enamel is often badly flaking or peeling while the lithography on the same piece is not?  Even Ives with its chronic severe paint flaking usually has no problems with the lithography.  They are applied to the same tinned sheet metal surface.  Was there some kind of a prep to the lithographed surface, while the enameled surfaces seem to have been unprimed?

It's pretty clear why the enamel flaked: I'm wondering why the litho didn't.

d

Great job Chris - what a rich color there. Correct me if I'm wrong somebody, but isn't the chemical make-up of the litho and enamel different? I think the lithography is more of an ink, and maybe the enamel (being a hard paint coat) isn't as flexible over the long lifetimes of the old tinplate.

at the Litho plant I work at, we coat and print jar caps (Gerbers Baby food,etc) and the enamel and litho is different. the litho is ink.

Firewood posted:

hojack posted:

Does anyone know why or how it is that old tinplate enamel is often badly flaking or peeling while the lithography on the same piece is not?  Even Ives with its chronic severe paint flaking usually has no problems with the lithography.  They are applied to the same tinned sheet metal surface.  Was there some kind of a prep to the lithographed surface, while the enameled surfaces seem to have been unprimed?

It's pretty clear why the enamel flaked: I'm wondering why the litho didn't.

d

Great job Chris - what a rich color there. Correct me if I'm wrong somebody, but isn't the chemical make-up of the litho and enamel different? I think the lithography is more of an ink, and maybe the enamel (being a hard paint coat) isn't as flexible over the long lifetimes of the old tinplate.

You've got it right, ink and paint are two different things.

Similar on occasion, but different in chemical makeups (varies), application processes, curing, pigments & counts, end results, etc.

I think of ink for achieving the best look and/or high detail.. And paint as a fast, low cost, good looking protection for the material its applied to.

Printing inks are normally very thick, sticky, slow to dry out fully, and don't shrink or pull much as they cure.  Thick like a gum-rubber based artistic oil paint, but with an extremely high pigment count. That count allows it to be spread very thin, but still be quite opaque. This all allows finer detail as well.

Most paint starts thin, and goes on thicker, then gets hard as a rock. Shrinking and pulling varies, but most do shrink and pull, more than inks. Some spread to a comparative thinness, but most paint is thicker once applied fully (primers and coats [coats due to lower pigment count in paint.]) .

Paint is usually much cheaper initially, can be started sooner, universal (used on other items easily[low start up]) .

  But over time printing can often produce a superior product, and becomes more competitive with the paints. Basically printing has a higher initial startup cost. But once the transfer material is prepared, it can be normally be re-used again and again till the material used for the block/screen/etc  wears out.

Clean up? Paint is easier except for some alkyd and epoxies.

 Printing ink is like a water and chemical resistant automotive CV grease. You wipe it, but it just laughs at you as it tears your paper towel up...got to keep a real towel with you at all times...(42) 

Great job Chris!

Steamer posted:

at the Litho plant I work at, we coat and print jar caps (Gerbers Baby food,etc) and the enamel and litho is different. the litho is ink.

Thanks! Soooooo......... any old machinery handy for doing repro tinplate? 

come up with the press plate (like a picture negative) and possible...other than that your boxcar would look like a salsa lid....