I would add that in my experience with Lionel, they have generally been good at having their products compatible with each other, so that their older O Gauge products operate well with their newer ones, and vice-a-versa.
Arnold,
Sounds to me like you should sue Lionel for a divorce and take Sally to counseling or therapy.
Gunny
@Norton posted:I believe this connector or one very much like it is what is used here. They were designed for harness to board connections. They were not meant for connections that are subject to flex. There are no locking tabs, rather its just a friction fit. The width of the connector allows more leverage on each end to pull it out.
Pete
Pete, I believe your above photo shows the same locomotive receptacle as, or one very similar to, the one on the back of my steamer. That receptacle is where the tether plug from the tender is inserted.
Also, what you say in your above reply sounds correct to me. Arnold
I have a train guy friend with a layout that has wider than 031 curves, who might be interested in purchasing his own Legacy steamer like mine.
Does anyone know if the problem described in my OP does not exist running this engine through wider curves?
If so, how wide do the curves need to be in order for this problem to go away?
Here is a further follow up on this topic.
Sally the Yard Goat has now had 5 or 6 short operating sessions with a total of about 1 hour of running time, and she is doing just fine, and has not stalled at all on my 031 curves.
It looks like the last time I administered Rick's Squeeze, it fully seated the tether plug into the receptacle, hopefully, on a permanent basis. That, coupled with returning Sally to Lionel under warranty, who slightly lengthening her tether so it would better navigate 031 curves as advertized, did the trick.
In view of this apparently successful fix, I may be so bold as to let Sally venture out of the freight yard and onto the main lines of my layout.
If I do, that would be momentous.
Stay tuned to tomorrow's Switcher Saturday. There, you may see Sally the Yard Goat rolling down the main line.
LOL, Arnold
Don’t know if this is a practical or possible additional reinforcement to keep tether connected, but would a small, black cable tie, on each end, be feasible? It already looks busy enough down there that I don’t think it would be a big cosmetic issue.
Very possibly, Mark, but Sally the Yard Dog has been running just fine lately, so I'm leaving well enough alone.
I plan to run it tomorrow and post a video or two of it on Switcher Saturday.
Arnold
Here's an update that I share in the event any of you folks may have had similar experiences with this new Legacy steam switcher.
First, I reiterate that, notwithstanding the issues I have had with this steamer, I'm glad I purchased it. I think tethers and drawbars for recently manufactured steamers with all the amazing new features have been challenging for the leading model makers.
Today, I took this steam switcher, which I have named Sally the Yard Goat, out for her maiden run on one of my main line loops. Good news she made it through the entire loop without stalling or taking off like a jack rabbit. The tether plug remained fully seated in the receptacle through all my 031 curves.
Next, I hooked 3 Postwar gondolas with loads to Sally's tender, and started her up. She was doing fine as shown in the video below as she made it through the first few curves. However, watch what happens towards the end of this short video:
Drats! Once again, Sally turns into a jack rabbit! LOL.
Of course, I rushed over to the transformer and shut off the power.
All is not lost, however. I applied the Rick Squeeze, pressing the tether plug very firmly into the receptacle and Sally, again, ran fine, resuming her freight yard duties.
I have more to say about what I did with Sally earlier today, which I will post in a little while. Arnold
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Today, I also made a Rube Goldberg modification to the deck plate between locomotive and tender. See photo below:
I simply Scotch taped onto the deck plate a small piece of cardboard to extend it to the narrow platform at the front of the tender so the deck plate doesn't droop below that narrow platform.
IMO, this adjustment does not affect the operation of the locomotive.
I might paint the cardboard and Scotch tape black to make it match the black deck plate.
A better modification, recommended by a Forum friend, would be to glue a small piece of styrene onto the deck plate to extend it, but I opted for the Rube Goldberg modification.
LOL, Arnold
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I think I'm going to steal your deck plate modification there @Arnold D. Cribari. That's a good solution!
I concur with your statement about being glad you bought the locomotive. I only have a U-shape section of track at the moment and I run the pants off this thing. I love it!
For the deck plate extension, you might consider a piece of black rubber cut to fit. The advantage is that this would be flexible, and give before whatever it's attached to breaks. I plan to use rubber pieces with some of my steamers that don't have deck plates.
I just had a look at my MTH 0-6-0 switcher, made from the tooling that Lionel is now using. In the straight ahead position, the deckplate overhangs the tender by only about 1/32 of an inch. Seems to me that any extension can be quite small. And, I don't think the deckplate is what's causing operational problems.
MELGAR
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:Today, I took this steam switcher, which I have named Sally the Yard Goat, out for her maiden run on one of my main line loops. Good news she made it through the entire loop without stalling or taking off like a jack rabbit. The tether plug remained fully seated in the receptacle through all my 031 curves.
Next, I hooked 3 Postwar gondolas with loads to Sally's tender, and started her up. She was doing fine as shown in the video below as she made it through the first few curves. However, watch what happens towards the end of this short video:
Drats! Once again, Sally turns into a jack rabbit! LOL.
Of course, I rushed over to the transformer and shut off the power.
All is not lost, however. I applied the Rick Squeeze, pressing the tether plug very firmly into the receptacle and Sally, again, ran fine, resuming her freight yard duties.
I have more to say about what I did with Sally earlier today, which I will post in a little while. Arnold
Hard to believe this issue. Seems Lionel needs to get an entirely new batch of beta testers.
I guess Lionel should have grabbed the tooling for the MTH tender as well, so that it would all line up the way it should.
@BillYo414 posted:I think I'm going to steal your deck plate modification there @Arnold D. Cribari. That's a good solution!
If your able to run it on o-48 or larger. You should be able to use the closer drawbar slot in which case the deck plate will reach the tender and sit properly.
@BobbyD posted:Hard to believe this issue. Seems Lionel needs to get an entirely new batch of beta testers.
Lionel needs "train people" designing these things. Not just toy makers.
I'm a huge fan of Legacy, and late tmcc for that matter. We can debate control systems. However, there is no question Mike Wolf made/makes better quality trains. There has been no consistency with Lionel since the mid 2000's. While I'm excited to get the opportunity to have Legacy equipped Mth tooled locomotives. This 0-6-0 makes one have reservations about future offerings.
My TPC unit does a fine job of giving Mth locomotives a "command like" operation even though running conventionally. This is another avenue I've begun to pursue to alleviate some of the frustration with new products.
Having said that, as long as folks line up for 3k bigboys. How a $600 0-6-0 turns out probably doesn't matter.
@RickO posted:If your able to run it on o-48 or larger. You should be able to use the closer drawbar slot in which case the deck plate will reach the tender and sit properly.
I can/do at the moment but it will eventually pull duty in the steel mill on my layout so tight curves are in my future. I'm not overly concerned though. This locomotive has been killer on switching duty so far with the bit of track that I have.
@RickO posted:Lionel needs "train people" designing these things. Not just toy makers.
I'm a huge fan of Legacy, and late tmcc for that matter. We can debate control systems. However, there is no question Mike Wolf made/makes better quality trains. There has been no consistency with Lionel since the mid 2000's. While I'm excited to get the opportunity to have Legacy equipped Mth tooled locomotives. This 0-6-0 makes one have reservations about future offerings.
My TPC unit does a fine job of giving Mth locomotives a "command like" operation even though running conventionally. This is another avenue I've begun to pursue to alleviate some of the frustration with new products.
Having said that, as long as folks line up for 3k bigboys. How a $600 0-6-0 turns out probably doesn't matter.
Rick's Squeeze is going to make you famous, RickO!
I have a local model train friend, Ed, who simultaneously bought this same Legacy model when I bought mine, from the same vendor: Tom's Trains of Ardsley, NY
Ed claims that he heard a click when he applied the Rick Squeeze firmly connecting the tether plug into the locomotive receptacle.
I never heard that click when I applied the Rick Squeeze to my model. It may be that my model is missing a tiny piece of plastic that might have helped fully seat my tether plug into my receptacle.
Our Forum professional engineers (not me - I almost flunked Calculus as a Columbia College Freshman) might chime in here on this issue. IMO, this very fragile tether, which is a bundle of 20 very fine wires, tether plug with 20 tiny pins and a receptacle with 20 tiny holes, is WAY TOO FRAGILE!
So too is the decorative deck plate between the back of the locomotive and the front of the tender.
Moreover, that decorative deck plate is ever so slightly too short.
IMO, the above flaws are mechanical engineering design flaws, flaws in the manufacturing process and/or flaws in the quality control process.
However, notwithstanding that I paid $750 for this toy/model with all its flaws, masochist that I am, I STILL LOVE MY SALLY THE YARD GOAT, and thank Lionel for creating her. LOL, Arnold
Arnold, I think you will either have to share photos with your friend of the connectors or meet up with him or if the train store still has one of these to compare connectors. The locking tab may have broken off when the tether was too short and you had to return this engine.
Pete
@Norton posted:Arnold, I think you will either have to share photos with your friend of the connectors or meet up with him or if the train store still has one of these to compare connectors. The locking tab may have broken off when the tether was too short and you had to return this engine.
Pete
That sounds plausible, thanks Norton.
Further update re Sally the Yard Goat: I unleashed her onto the main line where she traveled passed the Popsicle Stick ball parks, then back onto her siding, and all was well. She also hauled 3 hoppers with coal loads during this run.
Later on, time permitting, I will post a video showing this positive new development in the continuing saga of - Sally the Yard Goat.
LOL, Arnold
Here's the latest in the continuing Sally the Yard Goat saga.
Notice the deck plate in these before and after photos:
Before: the drawbar is in the outside slot for navigating 031 curves (where I always keep it), and the deckplate does not quite reach the narrow platform on the front of the tender so it droops below it:
After:
A small piece of cardboard is Scotch-taped to the deckplate so it reaches the narrow platform and does not droop below it:
Final After: cardboard and Scotch-tape on deckplate is painted black with acrylic paint:
Arnold
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This little Legacy steam switcher (my Sally the Yard Goat) has become a magnificent obsession with me. Here is a further update.
Extending the deckplate looked good, but it would occasionally bind when running the locomotive through 022 switches causing a derailment. Therefore, I removed the deckplate extension that was taped on, and now there is no longer any binding or derailments.
Also, as recommended above, since I have 031 curves, I have the locomotive drawbar inserted in the outside tender arm slot, and let the deckplate droop beneath the narrow platform on the front of the tender. So far, by doing this, there has been no binding and no derailments running through 022 switches and 031 curves.
Sally the Goat will continue to primarily be relegated to yard duty, and before she ventures onto a main line, I will give her the Rick Squeeze mentioned above to minimize the chances of stalling through 031 curves. Arnold
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:This little Legacy steam switcher (my Sally the Yard Goat) has become a magnificent obsession with me.
I don't blame you. I run mine every time I'm down at the layout. I love the chuffs! It's such a great little engine.
Since the deckplate is purely cosmetic, today I very carefully removed it from the locomotive using needle nose plyers to eliminate the possibility that the deckplate might cause a problem with the tether, tether plug or operation of the locomotive.
I can always re-attach the deckplate to the back of the locomotive if I want to do so in the future.
I don't recommend this locomotive for those, like me, who have Lionel 022 switches. On some of my 022 switches, the wheels on one side of the tender trucks lift up a little bit as it runs through the curved portion of the 022 switches. So far, there has been no derailment as a result of this lifting up, but IMO it's still worrisome and a steam switcher like this shouldn't have that problem. Arnold
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:Since the deckplate is purely cosmetic, today I very carefully removed it from the locomotive using needle nose plyers to eliminate the possibility that the deckplate might cause a problem with the tether, tether plug or operation of the locomotive.
I can always re-attach the deckplate to the back of the locomotive if I want to do so in the future.
I don't recommend this locomotive for those, like me, who have Lionel 022 switches. On some of my 022 switches, the wheels on one side of the tender trucks lift up a little bit as it runs through the curved portion of the 022 switches. So far, there has been no derailment as a result of this lifting up, but IMO it's still worrisome and a steam switcher like this shouldn't have that problem. Arnold
Sounds like someone needs some O-72 curves/switches 
Arnold,
I've been watching your saga with Lionel's (nee MTH's) 0-6-0 steamer and your Sally, in particular. I'm sorry to see your continuing travails with this engine because I happen to have the MTH version and it is one of my favorites. So, for what it's worth, I am suggesting a fix that might more firmly retain the tether plug into the engine - but no guarantee this will work.
Take some clear plastic tape (which is very thin) and wrap one layer around the four external surfaces of the plug. I imagine you could do this with one continuous piece or perhaps four pieces - one on each surface. If the tape doesn't come off when you insert the plug into the engine, this may make the plug fit more snugly into the engine and prevent it from loosening. If you can't insert the plug with tape on all four sides, try applying the tape on just the upper or lower surface of the plug.
As far as the wheels lifting off the rails of an O-31 turnout, the tether has too many wires and is just too stiff.
MELGAR
