I noticed that the GG1 in the yard at the RR Museum of PA in Strasburg was moved from the track next to the road to a neighboring siding. I don't think this loco has been moved since I've been passing the museum as a kid over 20 years ago. Any ideas what will be taking it's place on the front track?
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GG1 4800 is scheduled for restoration next, although there was some discussion on here about a month ago that the bearings had frozen on it. I guess if it has moved, the bearings must be free? Not sure what the plan is to put in it's place, but hearing that 4800 has moved is great news.
"Scheduled for restoration" meaning it will become operational? Or scheduled for operation just because it's old and needs some care?
BC1989 posted:"Scheduled for restoration" meaning it will become operational?
No, they mean scheduled for COSMETIC restoration! There is no way to make THAT thing operational.
Or scheduled for operation just because it's old and needs some care?
OK, what does THAT sentence mean?
It is scheduled for a complete cosmetic restoration back to it's as delivered appearance in 1934 and will restore all the Baldwin details such as the original number boards on top of the noses, the tear drop markers and the original slatted pilot. I am guessing it will go indoors next to 4935 when it is complete. It will not be made operational. None of the GG1s in existence will run again under their own power due to major issues both mechanically and structurally.
"None of the GG1s in existence will run again under their own power due to major issues both mechanically and structurally."
Don't forget "and electrically."
Electricity wouldn't be too much if an issue after a short "tow" to the main line at Leahman Place.
Cmontagna posted:Electricity wouldn't be too much if an issue after a short "tow" to the main line at Leahman Place.
Well,,,,,not quite! There isn't GG1 in existence that has a functional transformer remaining inside it, as they all had to be removed as a result of the PCB cooling oil inside. All the "electricity" in the world will no longer make a GG1 move under her own power.
It's a shame that none of these will ever run again under their own power. That being said, the RR museum and Strasburg are two of the coolest places in the world for train guys.
Last time we were there, my son and I got lost playing with the "G" switching layout next to the display floor. My wife and daughter were ready to walk back to the hotel. 
RSJB18 posted:Last time we were there, my son and I got lost playing with the "G" switching layout next to the display floor. My wife and daughter were ready to walk back to the hotel.
Do you have any pictures of the switching layout? I don't remember it being there the last time I visited the museum.
RSJB18 posted:It's a shame that none of these will ever run again under their own power.
It sure would be neat to see one run. They're pretty cool! I grew up in a town on the PRR mainline in NJ. I'm very happy that 4800 will be cosmetically restored, anyway.
That being said, the RR museum and Strasburg are two of the coolest places in the world for train guys.
That's a bingo!
Last time we were there, my son and I got lost playing with the "G" switching layout next to the display floor. My wife and daughter were ready to walk back to the hotel.
Hot Water posted:Cmontagna posted:Electricity wouldn't be too much if an issue after a short "tow" to the main line at Leahman Place.
Well,,,,,not quite! There isn't GG1 in existence that has a functional transformer remaining inside it, as they all had to be removed as a result of the PCB cooling oil inside. All the "electricity" in the world will no longer make a GG1 move under her own power.
Not to mention that the Keystone corridor is now running at 25kv at 60 Hz vs. the 11kv at 50Hz the PRR designed their original electrification around.
ecd15 posted:RSJB18 posted:Last time we were there, my son and I got lost playing with the "G" switching layout next to the display floor. My wife and daughter were ready to walk back to the hotel.
Do you have any pictures of the switching layout? I don't remember it being there the last time I visited the museum.
Unfortunately no. But it was very well done, especially for G Scale. I think it was TMCC controls and manual switches. They had a card system set up for each section and they gave you a set of moves to do. Last time we were there was probably 4-5 years ago.
First image is of the switching layout.
Is equipment being moved around to make way for construction of the new roundhouse?
Is that what the plan is? I have noticed a lot of things being shifted around over there.
Gentlemen I do not want to offend anyone here as we are train buffs but please when we talk about THE GGI (4800) could we please use her name "Old Rivits" that way she is not confused with the other 138 GGI's built, think that is the correct number, or even the other one at the RR Museum of PA. It will be great to see that Grand Old Lady restored even if only cosmetically that is better then the way she looks now which is a shame. Has anyone see the GGI at the Baltimore RR Museum, not sure she could even be restored cosmetically.
RJT posted:Gentlemen I do not want to offend anyone here as we are train buffs but please when we talk about THE GGI (4800) could we please use her name "Old Rivits"
Is that REALLY what the Pennsylvania Railroad men & women called #4800?
that way she is not confused with the other 138 GGI's built, think that is the correct number, or even the other one at the RR Museum of PA. It will be great to see that Grand Old Lady restored even if only cosmetically that is better then the way she looks now which is a shame. Has anyone see the GGI at the Baltimore RR Museum, not sure she could even be restored cosmetically.
"Old Rivets" is a rail fan generated term. To be technical, the plan is restore the 4800 back to it's original number of 4899. It was designated a National Mechanical Historic Landmark by the ASME as 4800.
As many will recall, the lone PRR R (a 4-8-4 rigid frame electric) numbered 4800 was built in Altoona in1934 as the PRR was sure that their home design would best the Baldwin design based on the New Haven EP3. When testing at Claymont was complete, the GG1 proved to be the superior design and it was then designated 4800. The R1 was then numbered 4899 and then #4999 in 1940. It remained in service unit about 1960.
RJT posted:Gentlemen I do not want to offend anyone here as we are train buffs but please when we talk about THE GGI (4800) could we please use her name "Old Rivits" that way she is not confused with the other 138 GGI's built, think that is the correct number, or even the other one at the RR Museum of PA. It will be great to see that Grand Old Lady restored even if only cosmetically that is better then the way she looks now which is a shame. Has anyone see the GGI at the Baltimore RR Museum, not sure she could even be restored cosmetically.
How about referring to her as a GG1 (and not a GGI) and as "Old Rivets", not "Old Rivits"?
RSJB18 posted:ecd15 posted:RSJB18 posted:Last time we were there, my son and I got lost playing with the "G" switching layout next to the display floor. My wife and daughter were ready to walk back to the hotel.
Do you have any pictures of the switching layout? I don't remember it being there the last time I visited the museum.
Unfortunately no. But it was very well done, especially for G Scale. I think it was TMCC controls and manual switches. They had a card system set up for each section and they gave you a set of moves to do. Last time we were there was probably 4-5 years ago.
Actually, I think the layout uses DCC. My sons both switched trains there years ago and walkaround plug-in throttles were involved. The area inside the museum with the G scale layout is called Stewart Junction. It is packed with kid-friendly train-related toys, building kits, and (of course) trains!
George
GG1 4877 posted:Hot Water posted:Cmontagna posted:Electricity wouldn't be too much if an issue after a short "tow" to the main line at Leahman Place.
Well,,,,,not quite! There isn't GG1 in existence that has a functional transformer remaining inside it, as they all had to be removed as a result of the PCB cooling oil inside. All the "electricity" in the world will no longer make a GG1 move under her own power.
Not to mention that the Keystone corridor is now running at 25kv at 60 Hz vs. the 11kv at 50Hz the PRR designed their original electrification around.
Jonathan,
The original electrification was 11kv at 25Hz.
Stuart
Stuart posted:GG1 4877 posted:Hot Water posted:Cmontagna posted:Electricity wouldn't be too much if an issue after a short "tow" to the main line at Leahman Place.
Well,,,,,not quite! There isn't GG1 in existence that has a functional transformer remaining inside it, as they all had to be removed as a result of the PCB cooling oil inside. All the "electricity" in the world will no longer make a GG1 move under her own power.
Not to mention that the Keystone corridor is now running at 25kv at 60 Hz vs. the 11kv at 50Hz the PRR designed their original electrification around.
Jonathan,
The original electrification was 11kv at 25Hz.
Stuart
Stuart,
Absolutely correct. Thanks for the correction. My memort isn't what it used to be.
G3750 posted:RSJB18 posted:ecd15 posted:RSJB18 posted:Last time we were there, my son and I got lost playing with the "G" switching layout next to the display floor. My wife and daughter were ready to walk back to the hotel.
Do you have any pictures of the switching layout? I don't remember it being there the last time I visited the museum.
Unfortunately no. But it was very well done, especially for G Scale. I think it was TMCC controls and manual switches. They had a card system set up for each section and they gave you a set of moves to do. Last time we were there was probably 4-5 years ago.
Actually, I think the layout uses DCC. My sons both switched trains there years ago and walkaround plug-in throttles were involved. The area inside the museum with the G scale layout is called Stewart Junction. It is packed with kid-friendly train-related toys, building kits, and (of course) trains!
George
I stand corrected, I'm not totally up on the alphabet soup of digital controls. Now that you mention it, I do remember moving controllers and plugging them in at different stations.
>>Not to mention that the Keystone corridor is now running at 25kv at 60 Hz vs. the 11kv at 50Hz the PRR designed their original electrification around.
I believe the current NEC voltage is 12KV. The only 25kv is on the former Lackawanna Morris & Essex.
They ginned up different power for the Virginia and Truckee McKeen car the Nevada RR museum restored.. l don't think they found one of the original engines...l assume somebody with very deep pockets could throw $$ at a GG-1, and get some kind of working power in one, re-engineering the mechanics. Since it has so many fans, maybe such a fantasy could be crowd funded.
I was there last fall, I was told that someone donated a large sum of money to cosmetically restore 5 of the steam locomotives that were outside for display in the new roundhouse. That the 4800 was originally going to be restored next, but since there was the donation was for the other 5. That it's restoration was going to be pushed back.
Could just be hear say
Andrew Lawrence posted:I was there last fall, I was told that someone donated a large sum of money to cosmetically restore 5 of the steam locomotives that were outside for display in the new roundhouse. That the 4800 was originally going to be restored next, but since there was the donation was for the other 5. That it's restoration was going to be pushed back.
Could just be hear say
It's interesting that you say that because they also moved, what looks like, a switching steamer back to the track by the restoration facility.
I volunteer at the museum, and 4800 was slated for restoration next. Right now, donations are close to target to fund the stabilization of the five steam locomotives (M1b, K4s 3750, L1s, H10s and B6sb).
Those will flank the recently restored E6 (which is planned to be set on a display that allows the driving wheels to move) in the new roundhouse.
With the steam locomotive stabilization gathering momentum, 4800 is still scheduled for cosmetic restoration into "as delivered" scheme, but right now may be rescheduled for the steam locos.
A spider web paint job and No. 4899 is certainly not my cup tea...and they would also have to get rid of the number boards and use the roof mounted bump number indicator. Not the best....at all !
Yes there was in "The Keystone" there is a picture of the PRRT&HS handing a check for $50,000 for the restoration of steam locomotives.
colorado hirailer posted:They ginned up different power for the Virginia and Truckee McKeen car the Nevada RR museum restored.. l don't think they found one of the original engines...l assume somebody with very deep pockets could throw $$ at a GG-1, and get some kind of working power in one, re-engineering the mechanics. Since it has so many fans, maybe such a fantasy could be crowd funded.
Get over it, it will not happen. You will never see a gg1 run under its own power ever again.
The Big Boy isn't running yet. So that's getting a little ahead there
I don't get the significance of renumbering it to 4899. It never ran in revenue service with that number, having been renumbered immediately after being chosen as the type that would be mass produced. Also, that initial paint scheme was a dog, IMHO. At least she got the 5 stripe scheme after entering service, unlike the poor R1, which wore her uninspired original scheme through to her very end.
By the way, by all accounts, the R1 was a very good motor. She must have been because for many years her assignment was the westbound Broadway Limited, returning east on a mail and express run.
It's just that the GG1 was that much easier on the track.
Hot Water posted:RJT posted:Gentlemen I do not want to offend anyone here as we are train buffs but please when we talk about THE GGI (4800) could we please use her name "Old Rivits"
Is that REALLY what the Pennsylvania Railroad men & women called #4800?
that way she is not confused with the other 138 GGI's built, think that is the correct number, or even the other one at the RR Museum of PA. It will be great to see that Grand Old Lady restored even if only cosmetically that is better then the way she looks now which is a shame. Has anyone see the GGI at the Baltimore RR Museum, not sure she could even be restored cosmetically.
In all my time around PRR electrics and the men who ran them I only ever heard them referred to as "motors". I only saw the 4800 "hot" once. She was stationary at the motor pit in Enola but her pantograph was up so she was "awake".
G3750 posted:Actually, I think the layout uses DCC. My sons both switched trains there years ago and walkaround plug-in throttles were involved. The area inside the museum with the G scale layout is called Stewart Junction. It is packed with kid-friendly train-related toys, building kits, and (of course) trains!
George
It would have to be DCC (or conventional DC), as George correctly notes. Would not be TMCC with G scale/gauge.
This weekend would be a good time to visit the RR Museum of PA. They are having their annual Model Railroading Days. In addition to seeing PRR GG1s 4800 and 4935, you can visit with modular groups that are running trains inside surrounded by the 12" to the foot prototypes. Our Stillmeadow Crossing O Gauge group will be participating again this year.
Bob Glorioso
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