Remotoring Weaver O Scale VO 1000 truck mounted motors

Those sure look like standard can motors to me, what makes you think they're not?

I agree with gunrunnerjohn, they sure look like can motors to me. I've never seen an open frame motor with a flywheel.

I thought they were can motors long ago because they are round but someone told me they were still open frame with that open slot. I believe the can motors have more commutators. All of my can motors are totally closed and I never had one burn out but had several of these Weaver motors burn out just pulling a train uphill. I like Pitman motors but I think they stopped making them.

Similar can motor replacement discussion.    You may also have to replace the driver board.( Note: motor burn out has been addressed)

Tha

@trooptrain posted:

I thought they were can motors long ago because they are round but someone told me they were still open frame with that open slot.

That "someone" was wrong, they are can motors.  Many of the can motors I have have slots at the brush end where you can see the brushes.  Pittman motors are an exception.

@trooptrain posted:

I believe the can motors have more commutators. All of my can motors are totally closed and I never had one burn out but had several of these Weaver motors burn out just pulling a train uphill.

Can motors for model trains typically have either five or seven segments.  I checked some of my motors, almost all the smaller can motors, and even the 5xx size have slots.

The Pittman motors are an exception to the rule.

@trooptrain posted:

All of my can motors are totally closed and I never had one burn out but had several of these Weaver motors burn out just pulling a train uphill. I like Pitman motors but I think they stopped making them.

I'm shocked you don't have any can motors with open slots, that's the norm rather than the exception.

Pittman didn't stop making motors, they just exited the lower cost consumer market, they're all high-end (read expensive), and overpriced for model train manufacturers.

Over 50 engines most have Pitman motors or similar. Back around 1993 my Weavers had the open slot motors. Several burned out Weaver replaced about three then started using Pitmans. This is probably the only motor I have left of this type. I have mostly steam engines with Pitman motors.  Based on size I may have to use this type again but they did not last long on this engine that probably did not reach 25 hours.

"Someone told me" has been the source of misinformation for many years.

The first one to tell someone something always seems to be the one who is believed, even when someone with actual knowledge challenges/corrects that in later discussions.

If someone does not know for certain, maybe it's best to not say.

I think Sagami and Canon's are fully sealed too. In my experience they're better motors then what I've got from Weaver or modern Atlas in terms of low end torque and starting speed, though disclaimer I don't use DCC. The fully sealed motors do seem comparatively more sensitive to heat buildup with momentum throttles, and I've fried a few as a result, though many were on inferior gear towers/drives too but I digress. I'm not an EE so this is all based on my experience with them. My primary issue with china drive Weavers is they can over heat if the motor-to-truck mount screw is not set just right, especially if too tight. I've experienced this with them straight out of the factory new box, especially the VO's, though I've also had that happen with their U25B and an Atlas C424. I guess the slot helps keep things cooler and ameliorates some of the potential heat damage.  Again not an EE, your results likely vary.

@trooptrain posted:

1. Can anyone explain how to remove the motor truck assembly from the frame?

Looks like there are mounting screw through a mounting plate for the drive motor & truck assembly underneath partially obscured by the truck; probably have to work you way to those with a small screw driver to drop the assembly out.

2. The motor from the truck?

We'll have to see what that assembly looks like after you get it apart from the frame to answer that.

3. Where to get 2 matching can motors of this size and 4. When all else fails who can repair the engine with new motors now that I burned out a QSI decoder and replaced it with a Soundtraxx only to find the motors are toast?

Maybe all the can motor experts can help you on sourcing those.

Repairs and who does them -- now there's a real interesting question and topic.  

These appear to be the same as some Lionel trucks where you have to remove a bunch of screws on both sides, separate the truck, and finally you can get to the motor mount screws.

Thanks for all of your comments guys! For atlpete: Our experience match what I am experiencing. Not long out of the box, one truck appeared to get lock truck. DCC speed up by thumb wheel on NEC controller probably fried motor. Did you personally disassemble the VO or send it away for repairs. For mwb: The only screws visible are the four holding the mounting plate to the body which I can not access. Does anyone know if the truck sides pull out after the screws are removed from the bottom?  That may help getting at the four mounting screws. For gunrunnerjohn: Sounds like a great shortcut if I could get the truck motor assembly out and replace with MTH or another Mfr's  scale wheel motor trucks.

I separated the motor/shaft from the truck by removing the mounting screw on the underside center of the truck frame, again when re-assembling I've found this has to be torqued just so, not too tight, not too loose etc. In addition another thing with one of the VO's (new out of the box) causing issues was the factory grease on the worm and gears had solidified and was actually preventing spin, both trucks. A clean-out, dip in the tank and a repack with Labelle grease fixed that. Another related issue I've had on a VO's is where the flywheel at the top of the motor is not being pressed on deeply enough and consequently rubbing against the underside of the car body.

As an aside I have had similar issues with mounting screw torque, factory grease etc on Weaver's Korean manufactured E8's too. By an large with one exception I've not had these issues with PRC Atlas locomotives, maybe file that under "...get what you pay for" as I'm pretty much a "bottom feeder" buyer.

For those interested : I got the motor out. It turns out that the inner screw at the bottom of the motor is the one that goes through the truck and holds the wheel contact spring. I first tried the outer screw at the bottom of the motor but it was a short screw that only held the wire. It was not necessary to remove the 4 screws holding the mounting plate. Then I removed the motor mount screws. The grease on the axle drive gear bearings was hard as old shellac! The worm gear is hollow and fits over a 2mm shaft thru to the flywheel. Motor measures 1 1/8 and is 33mm high plus about 5mm for the bearing hubs. Heating gear or freezing shaft to remove gear. What is a practical way to do either. soldering iron on the worm or gas torch? Any recommendation as to where to get two good matching motors of this size? The pictures shows the screw next to the speaker that held it together and the motor and gear parts.

I guess when I saw truck mounter motors, I thought you were talking about a Magic Carpet, I think that's what it's called. It's a truck with the motor flat mounted inside its own frame making a flat inside of the loco.

Dick

@trooptrain posted:

Heating gear or freezing shaft to remove gear. What is a practical way to do either. soldering iron on the worm or gas torch? Any recommendation as to where to get two good matching motors of this size? The pictures shows the screw next to the speaker that held it together and the motor and gear parts.

It has been my experience that the worm is almost impossible (at least on the Atlas O Mabuchi motors) to remove from the shaft via 'normal' means such a gear puller, pin punch or torch.  It appears to have been sweat mounted on the shaft with inductive heating.   I haven't been able to heat the gear hot enough with a regular butane or Mapp gas torch to get it off the shaft.  I think you need to get it red or orange hot.

The motor is most probably a Mabuchi RS-385 which is used in most, if not all, "China drives" in O scale/gauge.  A quick search on ebay shows over 100 hits for the RS-385 priced $5 to $10 each.  They come in various voltages from 3-24 volts.  I think most locos use the 24 volt version (RS-385PH-16140 or RS-385-17120).

Thanks Jim! I did not know that Mabuchi was prevalent in O scale/guage. In fact I never heard of the company until today as I have many pittman motors. I guess I am stuck with using their motors based on size alone. If I can not get the worm off, maybe I can get a worm from NWSL as they have a 2.3mm shaft motor and I have to wonder if their motor is a Mabuchi!

Thanks again

@trooptrain posted:

Thanks Jim! I did not know that Mabuchi was prevalent in O scale/guage. In fact I never heard of the company until today as I have many pittman motors. I guess I am stuck with using their motors based on size alone. If I can not get the worm off, maybe I can get a worm from NWSL as they have a 2.3mm shaft motor and I have to wonder if their motor is a Mabuchi!

Thanks again

Perhaps the new owners of NWSL will be more helpful than the previous owner (OSO Railworks).  I tried for several months to get the previous owner to cut four hundred worms for me (he said he had the stock).  I was going to offer horizontal drive conversion kits with either 1.5:1 or 2:1 reduction for Atlas China drives but he wanted $20,000 tooling costs for an item that was already in stock.  All he had to do was cut it to length and turn down the end to fit the bottom 'bearing' in the power truck.  I finally gave up on the idea when Atlas said they were changing the final drive ratio from 10:1 to 14:1 about 4-5 years ago.

@trooptrain posted:

Thanks Jim! I did not know that Mabuchi was prevalent in O scale/guage. In fact I never heard of the company until today as I have many pittman motors. I guess I am stuck with using their motors based on size alone. If I can not get the worm off, maybe I can get a worm from NWSL as they have a 2.3mm shaft motor and I have to wonder if their motor is a Mabuchi!

Thanks again

Again, contact Frank Timko at Timko Repair Depot, he has the capability of doing the worm gear swap and his prices are very reasonable!

Bob Lavezzi purchased most or all of Weaver’s parts inventory. He may have exact replacement motors w worms.

PRR Man- Many thanks for letting me know about Bob Lavezzi! While I could have bought Mabuchi motors. I got nowhere with finding worm gears for the 2.3 mm shaft as NWSL doesn't have the size. I found Bob on this forum from prior posts and called him. He will provide new Weaver motors with worm and flywheels.

I used to live in Northern NJ and PA and visited O clubs there and the North Penn club in PA. I model PRR, NYC, RDG and some JC and Lackawanna.