Requesting layout help from the pros...

Hi AbeulO Gauge,

The pros charge dearly for these services. We forumites will take a stab at it. Nice of you to sacrifice the workstation area.

I'll be back.

Ok, here's a base concept. 072 oval, the angle corner is an industry, station, whatever you want there. Lift out for center access. I believe the MTH truss bridge is 30" wide for the aisle.

The benchwork is all 30" wide, except for the angle area filled.

Elements to add:

Second main line, crossovers, passing siding(s), pass through staging area for complete trains to come into play. Perhaps try to fit a 3 switch wye in there cutting into the center space on an angle so as not to take too much space. Reverse loops would severely invade the center.

Check the measurement of the 64" inch wall. I get 62.5" with the others the same as posted.

Photos attached.

Moonman, So nice of you to reply so quickly and with plans in 3D as well!  I will double check my measurements and visualize this in my space. Thanks again.

I kept the 072 and didn't run into the angled area with the mainline so you could have a place for the scale engine to run.

You are really working with a 12'9" x 12" space, which would normally dictate using 054 and smaller. It can be that way if you like. I wanted to you consider this first.

Easy reach to everything and plenty of multi-train simultaneous running can be developed along with some operational elements if desired.

Oh, I forgot to mention, the table height is 30", for the grandys, and it should slip under the window sill. Check that height from the floor.

I can also squeeze the oval a little to provide more space along a wall for building fronts or scenery\terrain detail. There is a 1"-1 1/2" clearance from the wall to the edge of the roadbed.

I got some good advice from a friend 14 yrs. ago when I built my layout, use the largest R. curves you have room for. He said your big boy looks stupid on those small curves as do all the bigger steam engines + they run better. Also don't get cheep track the engines & rolling stock will come and go but the track will be there for the life of the layout.         TRAIN NERD AL

Here's the same plan, adding a circle of 042 and maxing out the area for spurs. It's a bit much.

Todd

And here, filled to the brim. Now with some turntable tracks to display favorite engines and cars. The outer loop, at 072, will hold most any locomotive. The inner reversing loops, at 054, will handle Premier locos up to (most) 4-8-4s. The small 031/042 loop will keep the youngest kids busy running Thomas or Polar Express -- without fear of a collision with the big trains, so long as their voltage is limited and they don't fly off the rails on the curves. Plus they can have a couple 031 switches of their own to practice on.

Todd

Now with that big model of Chicago Union Station over the tracks. (The one you can have one of those grand kids build in about 10 years.)

Abuelo

There was a comment made about how a big boy will look stupid on the tighter radius curves. I agree, But what looks even worse is a big boy running on a small pike. That beast needs some open space to stretch out its legs,

Your space is nice but fairly limited. My suggestion is to go with the tighter radius curves like 045 and 054. You will be able to get much more RR into your space. there are many train options, both in scale size and Rail King that will run on this premise. Enjoy the journey and Kudos for building this with FAMILY in mind

BTW the design ACFX suggests is NICE!!!

Steve

layouTRAIN OPTIONS

First of all, thank you so much to everyone who has commented with advice, suggestions and PLANS!

Based on what I've read here and with a nod to the plans of moonman, Tim Newman and Mike Smith and with grand inspiration from ACFX, I finally put pen to paper and have a photo of a possible layout. This was all drawn before I saw the even more fully developed plan of ACFX posted about 4 AM my time (it's now 11:45 AM, CDST).  I will of course review that plan in detail and await any comments on what I have presented here as a possibility.

I wanted to do the drawing before I tried to put it into RR-Track Lite (MTH edition) which is the only track planning software I have tried to date. AFTX, can you tell me what software program you use and whether you think your file of this layout could be imported into RR-Track Lite?

I re-measured the main walls (shoe to shoe) and there are no substantive changes.  However, I did extend north into the TV area by a foot to 13 feet.  I also tried to have the aisle width 30" or more and of course it's wider as your approach the layout from the rest of the basement.  I also tried to have the outermost track be about 6" from the wall or edge of table to allow, for example, placing shallow building fronts as scenery.  The dashed line represents where I thought the benchwork table top would end or extend.

I marked some areas with question marks, meaning what should I do here?  How can I use this space?  Well I see from ACFX's last plan that at least in one area turntable track would be a possibility.

I didn't know how long to make the station platform (drawn blackened in and labeled station instead of station platform). The 6 UP passenger train cars themselves at 16" each take up 8 feet!

I don't know enough about actual train operations to know where I should place turnouts between the main lines, how many and ideal locations.

You all have been generous with your time...I wanted to show that I wasn't sitting on my hands here with you folks doing all the work!  Thanks

Your layout looks like it is mainly designed to run trains. You should consider if you are also interested in switching cars at local industries. If so, you will want to add some sidings and a run-around track for your switching moves.

The roundhouse will be good for storing engines, and does not compromise your running of trains.

Will you be able to access the center of the layout? It is important to be able to reach all your track, especially where there are switches. This makes handling derailing mishaps much easier.

Good luck with your design: Joe K

Now with one of the too-long sidings shortened, and making way for a 3 foot aisle. Most of these have gotten very dense with track. They are just to show options, though not necessarily good ones. Often this much track would be spread over a 2-3 levels, allowing for more terrain and buildings. Still, it has been fun taking a stab at a complicated single-level!

Todd

I have started on your plan. The space marked how to use this space in the center peninsula is used by the reverse loop with the two switches for the second main and branch line. It pretty much fits perfectly using 054.

I think some type of staging area for complete trains should be designed in rather than a Roundhouse\TT. The South end seems ripe for that, but I know you were thinking of a city scene there.

Since you are running DCS, perhaps two 8'-10' sidings with a Division wall with the building fronts on it and the trains hiding behind it. Use tight spacing as the trains will be on a straight. New train begins to come out as old train goes in.

I'll finish a rendition of it tomorrow. Your plan looks pretty good.

Joe K, thank you for your thoughts.  I do indeed wish to do some basic switching.  Could you suggest where you would place the sidings / run-around track on my drawing to facilitate that?

On my plan with the peninsula, from the curving aisle, I think I can reach just about everywhere to get to a de-railed train.

AFTX, what a whiz you are with the software!  My RR-Lite says unspecified Windows version.  I would say it's not easy to use; e.g., I can only click on a whole string of track or one single element to move, rotate, etc.  I'd like to be able to start somewhere and then select track segments by hitting CTRL as other Windows programs use.  Anyway, can you post that latest plan as the RR-Track data file so I can see if I could load it?

The new wide opening is great.  I still have some reservations about several areas of the plan where I don't think I could ever reach the trains or fiddle with scenery.  I'm 5'7" with not a great reach.

In my attempt much of the benchwork was only 2 feet deep.

Would you consider putting maybe a section of my plan into your full scale RR-Track so I could get an idea how some of the track lines I've drawn might actually work with RealTrax?  Perhaps the West and South walls; then I could try to load that into my ? crippled version to see what happens.

I could always buy the full version of RR-Track if it had some of the functions I describe (and it would be nice to for example quickly enter a O-42 circle all at once and then just subtract out a track where you wanted to take the line in another direction.

Again, many thanks,

Moonman, thanks for your continuing help with this layout idea.  I look forward to seeing your next rendition. I do plan to have the railhead at about 46" AFF but will provide risers for the grandies to participate.

Hi AbuelO,

Here's the file, with and without the Atlas turntable. This is only the second thing I've designed with the software. It does have a learning curve to it. As for selecting items (pieces of track) in the software, holding the 'shift' button while you click will let you add track to your selection. Holding 'control' while clicking will let you subtract from those already selected.

Looking forward to Moonman's take on your design,

Todd

Here's something closer to your diagram...

Todd

I am not an expert, but using SCARM is a helpful tool. I have seen it used on this forum before, can help you work out minor problems of track alignments and dimensions before you get started. If it works for you that is. I still have an unfinished 13x5 foot layout myself. Hope this helps.

Here's your plan as close as I could get it. The are 4 or 5 alignment areas that will fit(1/8" or less, lengths are good. MTH is all 1/4's) represented by diamonds.

There isn't area room for staging tracks at the West end. I don't know what to put in the SE corner. I thought a city scene would look good front & center. Space available marked at various locations. The SE corner dimensions gave me fits, so that's not exact. SCARM rounds dimensions like the 63.75 leg in the SW.

SCARM is free. If you have Windows(any version) you can download and install. Then download the attached file an open it to work with the layout and view it in 3D. Right click the Scarm attachment and select save as. Then on your computer, right-click, select open with and select SCARM.

How nice to open my PC today and find even more refined designs from fellow foreros (forumites?)--thanks to Moonman and AFTX for those great plans.  I feel the end result will combine elements from both.  Moonman, I did open your file in SCARM and will study in detail today.  AFTX, what a nice plan as well.  I like having 2 lines running in and around the peninsula. What diameter are those curves in the peninsula?  If a right turnout and siding came off the second track in from the north "wall"- facing TV area) could the turntable be restored?  (as an alternative to the trolley in Moonman's suggestion).  Thanks to all again.

Just a quick note that I think Moonman nailed it!  Nice.

Todd

AFTX, just a postscript.  Boy, my RR Track Lite must be really crippled or defective.  I can open .rrt files that I created but it would not open your .rrt file of my layout.  Off to their website to see what the full version costs.

I had the peninsula as 054 with 042 inner, but it caused the aisle space to get squeezed.

I have attached the SCARM file with the 054\042 peninsula. Note the aisle spacing. Oh, by the way, when you turn track heights, the layout is set at 46".

Your design will run two trains simultaneously. It will require focused engineers. Also, MTH is a pain because all of the smaller radius track is in 30º segments except 031. It makes using 072 switches difficult. I like to use them because the 22.5º is much nicer for crossovers.

Let us know if you need anything more. Keep us posted on the new RR.

Here's the Atlas Turntable plan in the peninsula. Roadbed shown.(Toggle B key for on\off)

Hi AbuelO,

Still trying to design something that puts most everything in arms' reach, has a turntable, a station, and some switching opportunities while allowing two trains to run at once on separate mains. Here's the latest attempt, with some access space at far right. Still easy to imagine a big model of Chicago Union Station straddling the station tracks, someday. Both mains have a minimum of 042. Actually, everything is a minimum of 042. The third image shows it with a minimum 054 on the outer main -- welcome 4-8-4. And brought out from the right wall a little more.

Todd

Another reason this forum is 2nd to none!!! So much generosity and sincere caring. I love this hobby....thanks gents!

Hi AbuelO gauge,

Very clever. Pardon my ignorance. I just figured that out. Muy bien!

So, let's refine the layout Givens and Druthers so we can come up with a plan.

Givens         

Room space availalable 12'9" x 13' with an angled addition

table must be 24" or arm's reach

table height 46"

layout must be walk-in style

MTH RealTrax used

DCS operating system

3 passenger trains

1 freight train

Druthers         

Double main line, isolated

Cross-overs

Reverse loops or way to change direction

Passing siding, 1 for long passenger platform

yard spurs for freight or train storage

Atlas turntable\roundhouse\engine service area

Does that cover it?

I like your plan, AbeulO, meets all but double main line. So, to get a second train, how about an elevated separate loop? This is 10" higher(at 56") Pylons will not block layout view.

I tried to fit a helix in, but that will take more work. It will hog up scenery space. Most likely won't fit.

Hi AbuelO,

A couple more slight variations.

Todd

Hi AbuelO,

This is an attempt to get you some access to your window, plus to have the sun at your back while you run trains. Came out pretty nice. Outside main is 054 min, second main 042. It's a nice orientation for the turntable -- all your favorite locos on display and facing passers-by. Add passing track and crossovers as needed.

Todd

I am overwhelmed with the interest, inventiveness and generosity of those who have thought about my layout.  Last night I sat in the TV area and tried to imagine how this was going to look and feel as a 3 dimensional structure.

I came away feeling like a chagrined child whose eyes were bigger than his stomach.  The truth is I think I've been a bit greedy trying to put as much as possible into this space and AFTX and Moonman have indeed come up with marvelous ideas to achieve that.  I feel badly that it has taken me this long to "get" the real life visual of this somewhat imposing room "structure" in my mind.  But surely, I tell myself, it is better to discover this now than after benchwork has been constructed!  This is not much solace, however, to those who have spent so much time on the whole-room plans.

I hark back to one of Moonman's first replies where he commented on giving up the "workstation" area (the SE 8 foot wall).

Having given all this more thought, I feel that I should (at least for now) retain the SE wall, or at least 6-7 feet of it to provide a work-bench area, a place for tools, a place to get started with scenery and maybe down the line weathering, etc.  And, I could keep the laptop there to keep current with the forum while I'm running trains.

I'll print out all the recent ideas and plans because some of those elements could very well fit into what I now visualize as a sort of folded dog bone layout extending from the SE corner around the West (window) wall to the North "wall" which faces the TV area, and extending out from the West wall by say 9-10 feet.

Moreover, I have ordered the full version of RR-Track and it should be here maybe Thursday so I can manipulate some of these (your) great track plans and not just pencil draw on what you all have done.  Moonman, I've also started using SCARM but even though I'm quite computer proficient, I'm finding it slow going.

I hope you all understand about this change of direction.  No doubt you've seen it before with beginners.  Thanks again.

No worries here AbuelO. We're all dreamers. I've enjoyed the exercise immensely!

Todd

Now with computer desk that rolls under layout when not in use. Or make it a nice permanent built-in. Make the layout tabletop low enough so you can watch TV.

AFTX, your mind operates so quickly that my head is spinning. 

However, I like the idea of having people approach this "man-train-cave" section of the basement via the opening that we have used all along. 

It's a natural passage from a grand-kids/family room/play area to the TV area and then the opening/entry to this train area.

Moonman, great idea to organize thoughts again.  I took your list and updated it as follows:

Givens         

Room space available: 12'9" x 13' for dimensions of main walls; W wall = 64”

SE corner avail for loop(s); loop can encroach a little on the space in front of the SE wall which will now be reserved for desk, train and model work area with shelves above to store various related “stuff.”

Layout then can go along the SOUTH wall, use the SW corner and continue 13 feet along the WEST wall.

A more or less perpendicular peninsula with loop(s) can extend out from the WEST wall say 9-10 feet +/-  (so as not to interfere with pushing out a chair from the SE wall workbench, and so as to have a welcoming visual width to a person approaching the walk-in layout from family room/play and TV areas.

table must be 24" or arm's reach          (I think there could be table more than 24”, for example in the peninsula which I can reach in from 3 sides and maybe when there is corner dead space that I’d hardly ever have to reach into. My reach at 41-42 inches AFF is about 26” .)

railhead  height~ ~41"  :  as follows

  Benchwork legs at 38” + 3/8”plywood + 2” foam + 5/8” MTH RealTrax

layout must be walk-in style

MTH RealTrax used  ;  DCS operating system

2 passenger trains, 2 freight trains

Druthers         

Double main line, isolated

Cross-overs and Reverse loops or way to change direction

Passing siding, 1 for long passenger platform

yard spurs for freight or train storage

Atlas turntable\roundhouse\engine service area

10/21/2014 7 PM CDST