Do it right and use lock tight. And start with a light or medium one.
But if it's stubborn go to Red. Just a thread or two of red at the head/shoulder area. A little heat will always soften it enough for removal.
Save the super glue for if "red" doesn't hold it 
THis 726 was the first O gauge I bought when I got back in to railroading. this loose screw has been an issue for a long time. Bought all new parts for that side and kept it oiled but keeps unthreading. Off my layout now, just sitting. I will try Loctite, will get some tomorrow and if that doesn't work it goes to the scrap line (Steamer !)
Jim, Dave/Steamer is a good guy who gives a home to any beaten up steamer...it could not go to a better place (if the glue does not work).
Tom
Yes, he, Mitch and I are all dumpster divers. Will see how it works out.
If threads are partially stripped, an inexpensive solution is to put some copper threads in the hole and then insert the screw. You can get very fine copper strands out of almost any stranded wire, but look for 22-24 gauge.
On the paint - I used to love Krylon. Then about five years ago they changed the formula and the nozzle, making it useless for airplane parts and model train parts. So I went to Rustoleum, and for a while that was satisfactory. Their new formula dried as fast as the older Krylon.
Now every single can of Rustoleum I buy clogs on its third or fourth usage. I have tried everything - compressed air back into the can, cleaning the nozzle with very fine wire - everything. I have a huge stack of mostly full useless Rustoleum cans. I am considering shipping them to the company president.
I am currently having really good luck with "Dupli-Color". When I want really, really good results, I mix my own and use an air brush or a Binks model 18. But sometimes a good rattle can is indispensable!
jim pastorius posted:Yes, he, Mitch and I are all dumpster divers. Will see how it works out.
Hey, I want "Honorable Mention" in the Dumpster Diver Club. If I wasn't a "diver," we would not have a topic here!
Tom
and who are you again Sir?
You are right-you are a member !! It includes all rights and privileges of DD.
Bob2 take them back to the store, they should exchange the cans for other ones, especially if they see it isn't a random occurrence.
I hope Tom does not mind if I use a little space at the bottom of his thread. I saw a 227 type shell for sale recently, which did not look to bad. I have a frame with wheels that I thought I might be able to get working again, so I got the shell and am now three days deep into the project. There was more missing and more needing repair than I thought, but I think I will be able to bring another 0-6-0 back to life.
The motor frame had three plugs on the brush plate, which means it was either a 231 or 232. I do not have a tender that will work with a 232, so I changed the brush plate to a two plug unit so it will be either a 227 or 228. The boiler front was missing, but I found a usable 228 front in my junk box. All it needed was a new head light lens and a new grab iron in front.
The commutator was real rough so I wanted to sand and lap it smooth and flat. The pinion is held on the armature shaft with a slotted set screw. I was unable to get to budge and did not want to split the slotted set screw. That would be a real bear to get out. There was enough clearance with the brush plate removed to lap the commutator in place. My fingers are still sore from rotating the armature by holding on to the pinion gear. It was low adjacent to all the slots, but came out really nice. One of the worm shaft bearings had an oval shaped bore, so it was replaced. All cleaned and greased up, put the motor on and ran it for a while. Everything ran smooth and quite.
Then the side rods and valve gear went back on. I found one of the cams that makes the valve gear wok was not working properly on the gear side. But I did not want to pull a wheel to get it to work, so I will live with that. The e-unit with the engine did not work, and I had another e unit that did not work, but inputting the two together, and making only one piece, I now have one eunit that works well. That is as far as I got tonight. It has been a fun project.
excellent solutions to a tuff problem
Hi David, No problem with you adding posts and pictures of your locomotive..in fact, I would be glad if you can post more as you progress! Explain a little more on what you did with the e-unit, if you can. Did you need to rewind the coil?
Tom
definitely need more pics Dave! and be sure to show your switcher off on Switcher Saturday.
Since David shot some life into this thread, I did some more cosmetic work today to secure the handrail stanchions and my locomotive's bolt that was backing out that holds the side rod in place. Also had the locomotive take several laps with its new tender partner, a #2232B.
Just need to put on the marker lights, so I would declare it 98% done at this point.
Tom
Very nice ! Well done. Nothing like a good "rescue" job !
looks great Tom!
Thanks Jim and Dave.
Tom
A prototype
Here's a question which might be anathema to some of you... retrofitting postwar-style knuckle couplers.
I know LTI released the 6-18000 in 1989 which was made from the prewar switcher tooling and it had knuckle couplers. As far as I know this is the only reissue. Were any other changes made to make this possible? Were these knuckle couplers unique to 6-18000, or can couplers from a postwar 0-4-0 like the 1615 be used? Thanks!
Hi Ted, I know the front steps/pilots were a different design from the prewar to the 1615. The front steps pilot to the 1989 re-release looks very similiar if not identical to the 1615. There was also an article in Toy Trains magazine years ago about converting prewar box couplers to post war knuckle couplers. I try to keep my prewar switchers with the couplers they came with (mostly the prewar box, but a few with knuckle couplers) and this way I have some flexibility...but that is just my preference.
Tom
MNCW posted:Hi David, No problem with you adding posts and pictures of your locomotive..in fact, I would be glad if you can post more as you progress! Explain a little more on what you did with the e-unit, if you can. Did you need to rewind the coil?
Tom
Tom, one of the units I had the coil wire broken off and the other had the threads for the shoulder screw stripped. I decided to fix the e unit with the stripped threads. This arrangement looks to my like a design error. The shoulder screw that supports the ratchet/contact wheel threads into a piece of fiberboard. The threads are 3-56, way too fine to last in fiberboard. The shoulder screw can not be tightened against the fiber board or it will lock up the ratchet wheel. So the screw is screwed in far enough to give good operation of the ratchet wheel, then it is locked with a nut on the back side of the contact board. The problem appears to be that the heads of the drive screws that attach the contacts to the ratchet wheel extend too far out and contact the fiber boarding if the screw is tightened against the shoulder. Since my threads in the fiber board were stripped, my only option was the nut on the back side. I decided to try a fiber washer under the shoulder and provide clearance for the drive screw heads. I found a washer with the correct ID that was .031 thick, but too big on the OD. So I turned the OD down. Now I can put the shoulder screw in with the spacing washer, tighten the nut, and the ratchet wheel works fine without any adjustment
The ratchet wheel is very nicely made. I am no fan of drive screws, but Lionel drilled the holes all the way through so they can be knocked out with a small punch from the rear. I sure wish I could find come spare contacts since it looks like they were made to be changed. The design looks just like the contacts on a manual reverse on a standard gauge locomotive, but in miniature.
I spent the day finishing the wiring and made up and installing the front coupler. I do put post war couplers on my switchers. The frame I started with had already been modified for a post war coupler. It looked like the box coupler head had been cut off and a 480-25 coupler assembly soldered on with a sheet metal spacer to get the height right. No effort had been made to put the front steps on. One of my other switchers had a nicer design so I set out to figure out how it had been made. The rivet with the centering spring around it at the rear of the coupler been removed and the right angle bracket that attaches to the locomotive was reused. This design has the advantage of leaving the box coupler in tact. The replacement coupler was a TC-11 with an extra hole drilled in it for the rivet. The TC-11 is the coupler and bracket used on the flying wing trucks.
I drilled the new hole in the TC-11 with a #17 drill. The hole was 13/32" outboard of the inside face of the verticle tab at the rear of the coupler. I used a #36 drill to drill out the rivet. This shoulder rivet Must be used somewhere else and is easy to find. I also put two small slots in the vertical tab at the rear of the coupler so the centering spring would contact both brackets at the same time. This is necessary because the new bracket is wider than the anchor bracket. This gives better centering than on the design I was copying. Prior to riveting the parts back together I throughly debured the holes and rubbed graphite into the mating surfaces. The one problem with this whole design is the washer just behind the coil rubs on the underside of the pilot beam. To correct this I put the the slightest bend in the coupler shank right at an unused hole. Then I soldered on the wire and it was ready to to. It really works well.
With everything all done and ready to put the shell on it was time for a test run.
This is a picture of my original 227 and today's rebuild, which I will call a 228. In looking at the picture I noticed the front step board is missing. It will be installed.
David, Your #228 runs great. Thanks for the pictures and the video. You should be very happy with the outcome. Where did you get the base from that is in the video and what does your number plate show on the #228's smokebox? If you are able to reverse the locomotive and create another video, some of the folks on the thread may like to see a better view of the e-unit cycling through. Glad you got it up and running.
Tom
Some great work and useful information here! One more question about these switchers, if you still have it apart... what's the gear ratio? (How many turns of the armature does it take for one revolution of the wheels?) Also, are the gears "back-drivable," i.e., with the power off, can you turn the wheels and does the motor turn by doing so? Thanks again for sharing!!
Ted Sowirka posted:Some great work and useful information here! One more question about these switchers, if you still have it apart... what's the gear ratio? (How many turns of the armature does it take for one revolution of the wheels?) Also, are the gears "back-drivable," i.e., with the power off, can you turn the wheels and does the motor turn by doing so? Thanks again for sharing!!
Ted, the motor pinion has 9 teeth, the bull on the worm shaft has 19 teeth. That gives a ratio of 2.11 to 1. The worm is a 3 lead worm. The worm wheel has 21 teeth. That would give a gear ratio of 7 to 1. The overall ratio is 14.77 to1. So the armature would make about 15 turns to get the wheels to make one full revolution. With a three lead worm the wheels should be able to drive the worm, assuming proper lubrication. The additional spur gear set between the armature shaft and the worm shaft will make this a little more difficult. These 227 series locos run noticeable slower than most post war locomotives do.
MNCW posted:David, Your #228 runs great. Thanks for the pictures and the video. You should be very happy with the outcome. Where did you get the base from that is in the video and what does your number plate show on the #228's smokebox? If you are able to reverse the locomotive and create another video, some of the folks on the thread may like to see a better view of the e-unit cycling through. Glad you got it up and running.
Tom
Tom, the smoke box front has 228 on it. That is the one I found I had in my junk box. The motor and frame were probably from a 231 or 232. Since the smoke box cover was missing from the shell, I have no information what number loco it was from. The roller stands were picked up a train show, maybe York, about 10 years ago. They are very nicely made. I bought them from the person who made them, but I do not remember who that was and there is no label on them. There was a thread several months ago when several people were trying to figure who made a set of roller stands and if they were still available. As I recall gunrunnerjohn was quite active in that discussion. I never use more that two, just supporting the out board wheels. Notice the brass strip used to get power to one of the rollers.
Wow, always wanted to know about the gearing. I wonder if all of these switchers had 3-lead worms.
[A little OT, but the 700E started out at 12:1 with a triple-threaded worm, and after the first year or so, was sold with a two-lead worm for an 18:1 ratio which survived to modern times (the big bronze worm wheel on the Hudson has 36 teeth.) I also found out last year that even Hudsons with the two-lead worm are back-drivable, once they have been properly broken in.]
The reason I ask, is that the catalog copy circa 1939 mentions a "20:1 ratio." I always doubted that, but if Lionel used 10:19 spur gears with a two-lead worm and a 21 tooth worm wheel, that would be very close. Great info, this thread continues to amaze!!
Very nice work!
I had another 227 0-6-0 that needed work. It had been around for several years so it was time to do something with it. It was dirty, needed a major servicing, motor work and rewiring.
I completely stripped the loco and started cleaning and inspected all the parts. The intermediate gears, the gears between the drivers, had a strange wear pattern on them so I looked a little harder at them. I found both stub shafts were loose in the die cast frame. See video below.
These stub shafts have the centers in an exact location with respect to the loco's axles and perfectly parallel to the axles to get the proper mesh of the gears. Custom made oversize stub shafts pressed in to percission machined bores just did not seem like it would be worth the cost.
I went digging in my junk box and came up with a stripped 227 frame with good solid stub shafts. I cleaned up the stripped frame and built it up using the parts off the loco with the loose stub shafts. Following is the results.
Hi David,
I think those small gears are referred to as "idler gears." They were the same ones that I had trouble with on my locomotive that was described in the original post. If I would not have bought a "donor frame/assembly" that basically had just the frame, the drivers and the 2 idler gears, I would have been in trouble because even Harry Henning did not have them. I bought the donor on eBay and I would recommend looking out for something like that if you plan on making more repairs in the future.
Tom
Gee that looks beautiful and runs great. Did you wind the e-unit coil by yourself? It looks probably better than it did the day it came from the factory. 
I bought one of those roller bases finally but have yet to use it. Anything tricky with where to set up the alligator clips?
Tom
Tom, on the roller stands, the center rail contact is brass so I just soldered on a wire with soft insulation and gave myself about 8" where I can clip to it. The other connection would also be better with a wire lead, but the frame is aluminum, so solder will not work. I should drill and tap it for a #6 screw so I can attach a wire. The roller stands can vibrate quite a bit when running an engine and the clip leads may pop off, so wire leads work better.
That looks and sounds great! Nice work!
UPDATE from November 25, 2017-- I dragged out another #227 that I had purchased in 2005 on eBay. It is a good runner, but had been restored and was until now missing its cab # and tender lettering. I had bought a pair of stamp pads from eBay probably from around the same time specifically for this locomotive and tender. Unfortunately, most of the silver paint (purchased from the seller of the stamp pads) had dried up over the years. As a result, my friend and I used what was readily available in his basement, which was Testors silver paint.
BEFORE: The paint on the locomotive and tender (again, both were restored prior to my purchasing them) were in good shape. No sanding or other prepping were needed at all.
TESTING: My friend Bill and I used an empty tuna can painted black to test on along with a piece of cardboard which was also painted black. I thought the cardboard came out pretty nice (and I saved it), almost like something Andy Warhol might have come up with if he operated toy trains.
OUTCOME: This was my first attempt at using rubber stamps to restore numbers/lettering on one of my prewar steam switchers. I'm pretty happy with how it came out. However, it needed quite a bit of trial and error to get to the results.
Tom
That turned out awsome 
Outstanding Tom! I need to get those stamps. I have the ones for the big Lionel Lines Tenders but have never used them. Where did you get the ink?
The person I bought mine from offered the option of getting the ink, too. I think it is the same seller I sent you the link on. I believe his ink is water based, so it should be a little easier to clean up. Good luck! Feel free to post pictures here if you get the stamps.
Tom
Nice !!
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
