Hi Bob,
All is good. Hope you are well, too. I picked up another switcher, a #233, so David's #232-233 wiring is like a gift from heaven! 
Tom
With lots of time on my hands since I am home all the time, I took on another 227 project. As stout and reliable as these locos are, after 80 years of service they do need a little work. My current project is typical of these locos with the stub shafts that the idler gears run on having come loose in the frame. This results in the idler gear teeth hitting, and sometime locking on the gauge side corner of the blind driver tread. This is made worse by wear on the shaft journal and bore of the gear.
On this particular locomotive I have pulled the end drivers and partially removed to center driver to get the gears off. With the gears off the stub shafts can be knocked out from the back side. In measuring the stub shafts I found the journal only 0.0005” under sized, so I reused them. They were reinstalled with Loctite 640 sleeve retaining adhesive. While the 640 hardens I am cleaning up the motor. Tomorrow I will put the rest of the wheels and axles back on.
Attachments
Images (1)
@David Johnston posted:With lots of time on my hands since I am home all the time, I took on another 227 project. As stout and reliable as these locos are, after 80 years of service they do need a little work. My current project is typical of these locos with the stub shafts that the idler gears run on having come loose in the frame. This results in the idler gear teeth hitting, and sometime locking on the gauge side corner of the blind driver tread. This is made worse by wear on the shaft journal and bore of the gear.
On this particular locomotive I have pulled the end drivers and partially removed to center driver to get the gears off. With the gears off the stub shafts can be knocked out from the back side. In measuring the stub shafts I found the journal only 0.0005” under sized, so I rescued them. They were reinstalled with Loctite 640 sleeve retaining adhesive. While the 640 hardens I am cleaning up the motor. Tomorrow I will put the rest of the wheels and axles back on.
So did this thing have ANY rust or corrosion on it when you started? And if so, that's an awesome cleanup you did. If not, it's still an awesome cleanup!
For you to know that the stub shaft was 0.005" undersized, you must have the engineering drawing for this piece, right? Had it been worse, what material would you choose to replace it with?
That restoration just looks like fun!
George
@David Johnston posted:With lots of time on my hands since I am home all the time, I took on another 227 project. As stout and reliable as these locos are, after 80 years of service they do need a little work. My current project is typical of these locos with the stub shafts that the idler gears run on having come loose in the frame. This results in the idler gear teeth hitting, and sometime locking on the gauge side corner of the blind driver tread. This is made worse by wear on the shaft journal and bore of the gear.
On this particular locomotive I have pulled the end drivers and partially removed to center driver to get the gears off. With the gears off the stub shafts can be knocked out from the back side. In measuring the stub shafts I found the journal only 0.0005” under sized, so I rescued them. They were reinstalled with Loctite 640 sleeve retaining adhesive. While the 640 hardens I am cleaning up the motor. Tomorrow I will put the rest of the wheels and axles back on.
David,
Very nice. What did you use for pulling off the wheels, a traditional wheel-puller or a MacGuyver-like tool?
Thanks for helping to bring another one of these locos back to life.
Tom
Not to much rust on this one, but very oily and dirty. Clean up always takes the most time. I do not have drawings on very many parts for this loco. Most of the drawings that are available are post war. Since many of the 700e parts were used on the 773, there is a lot of information available on the 700e. And some 700e parts made into the 227, so there is a little to work with. Looking at the post war drawings and measuring new parts gives a good idea about the dimensions, clearances and tolerances. The stub shafts seem to be hard, but the gears wear quickly. It would be nice if they had a renewal bronze bushing in them.
I put the motor back together and ran it this afternoon. It runs very smooth and quiet. I was going to do the wheels, but the grand kids called. Maybe this evening. Then I have to put a new wire back on the front coupler. That is always a slow and trying task.
Hi Tom. I use a Lionel ST 311 puller to pull the wheels. I have several different pullers, but the Lionel puller is fastest and easiest to use. I do all the repressing on a Hobby Horse press.
When I work on an engine I typically take a few notes. I also do research on engines to know what I am getting into. I typed up my notes on the 227 to share with the other 227 fans and repair men. See below.
Maintenance and repair data for Prewar semi-scale and scale 0-6-0 switchers, 227, 228, 230, 231, 232, 233, and 701
E-unit OO1E-185
Coil resistance should be in a range of 7.0 to 7.6 ohms.
Idler gear, 227-42, and stub shaft, 227-31, data:
Gear, new bore 0.160”. Stub shaft, new diameter 0.156”. Nominal new clearance is 0.004”. The maximum allowable worn clearance is 0.007”.
To install new stub shaft in frame, knock old one out with pin punch from back. There is a hole in the frame opposite the back of stub shaft to accommodate this. Clean frame bore and new stub shaft with acetone. After acetone has dried, coat the bore and stub shaft with Loctite Primer SF-7649. Apply Loctite Sleeve Retainer 640 to stub shaft serrations and bore in frame. Install new shaft by taping in with hammer from outside of frame until shoulder is in contact with frame. Clean off any excess 640 immediate with acetone. Retain in place for one hour. The 640 will be fully cured in 24 hours.
Axles: plain is 227-33 and swaged is 227-41. Journal diameter is 0.180” on a new axle. The axle bushing is 227-34 with a bore of 0.185” when new. Nominal new clearance is 0.005”. Change bushings when clearance exceeds 0.015”.
Gearing. These locomotives have a double reduction gearing arrangement. The motor pinion drives a spur gear on the end of the worm shaft. The worm drives a worm wheel on the middle axle. The motor pinion, 227-87, has 9 teeth. The mating spur gear, 227-51, has 19 teeth. The worm shaft, 227-56, has a worm with three leads on it. The worm wheel, 227-32, has 21 teeth on it.
The gear ratio as calculated; 19/9 X 21/3 = 14.77:1
Worm Shaft Bearings:
The worm shaft bronze bearing, 700E-24, has a bore, new, of 0.187”. The maximum allowable oversize is 0.193”. The worm shaft thrust ball bearing, 700E-26, consist of five hardened steel balls in a cage. The balls are 5/32” in diameter. The thrust washer, 700E-184, is hardened and ground, one side only, steel. The groundside of the thrust washer shall run against the ball thrust washer. The worm shaft, 227-56, journals are 0.186” diameter and have a ground and polished surface.
Motor:
All the switcher motors are the same except for the brush plates, which very in the number of jacks. Motor 227M-1 has two jacks and is used on the 227 and 228. Motor 230M-1 has one jack and is used on 230, 231, and 701. Motor 232M-1 has three jacks and is used on 232 and 233. In 1939 brush plates were made with solid flush mounted jacks and split plugs. Starting in 1940 brush plates were made with surface mounted split jacks and solid plugs.
The armature in all motors is 700E-79. The armature shaft is 0.125” in diameter with a pair of opposing flats on the pinion end for the pinion set screw. The shaft is 2.062” long. Armature laminations are 1 ¼” in diameter. There are 14 of part SL-17 lamination blanks in the stack. Field lamination blanks are part 752M-59. The commutator is flat and is perpendicular to the shaft with three segments held in position by molded Bakelite The commutator part number is 226E-55. The drawing of this part was made on April 11, 1938, making its design just in time for the 227 family of locomotives.
Typical resistance check of the commutator produces the following results: A to B, 2.3 ohms; B to C, 2.3 ohms; C to A, 2.3 ohms. Motor running test, no load, both directions, resulted in 0.8 amps at 14 volts.
Common screw list for the Locomotive:
1) Steam chest and front coupler to frame, two, 6-32 X ½ RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black. Used with #6 split lock washer.
2) Oil hole plug screw, three, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black. Note: this screw was found to be a 6-32 X 3/16 BHMS on one locomotive. Used with flat fiber washer 97M-15.
3) Collector insulator to frame (up from the bottom), two, 4-36 X ¼ RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
4) Set screw for pinion gear and worm shaft spur gear, two, 227-87, 6-40 X 5/64” cup point set screw; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black. Note, I replace these with Unbreako recessed hex drive 6-40 X 1/8” cup point set screws. The slotted drive set screws easily split if tight to remove.
5) Body mounting screws, three, one in smoke stack and two under cab, 6-32 X ¾ FilHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black. These are sometimes found with #6 split lock washers.
6) Motor mounting screws, two; 6-32 X 9/16 RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black. Used with #6 split lock washer.
7) Worm gear box cover to frame, four; 4-36 X ¼ RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
8) Terminal lugs to collector assembly, two, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black. Used with #4 split lock washers, 56-15.
9) E-unit to worm gearbox cover, three, 2-56 X 1/8 RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel, finish, black.
10) Front step boards to buffer sill, two, 3-48 X 3/16 RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
11) Valve gear support assembly, 227-81, to frame, two, 4-36 X ¼ RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
12) Current collector to brass insert, 700E-111, two, 4-36 X ¼ RHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black. Used with #4 split lock washers, 56-15.
13) Boiler front to boiler, two, 4-36 X 7/16 FilHMS; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
14) Bell bracket to top of boiler, one, 2 X 3/16 BHST type Z; drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
15) Brush plate mounting screws, four, 5-40 X 3/16 RHMS, drive, slotted; material, brass; finish, bright.
Common screw list for the Tender:
Note: Number of screws varies with type of equipment installed in the tender.
16) Shell to frame, four, 6-32 X ¼ RHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, nickel plate.
17) Back up light board bracket to frame, two, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black.
18) Back up light board to bracket, two, 4-40 X 5/16 RHST type F; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, cad plate.
19) Slug relay bracket to frame, two, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black.
20) Bell mechanism to frame, two, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black.
21) Bell to bell mechanism, one, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black. Used with #4 split lock washers, 56-15.
22) Slug relay to relay bracket, two, 3-48 X 3/8 RHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black. This connection is insulated and also includes black fiber shoulder washer, #3 internal tooth lock washer, and #3-48 nickel plated brass hex nut.
23) Rear step board to shell, two, 3-48 X 5/32 RHMS, drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black. Note: at this location a 2-56 X 1/8 RHMS, drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black, fastener has also been seen.
24) Coal pile to shell, two, 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS; drive, slotted; material, steel; finish, black.
25) Back up light housing to shell, two, 2-56 X 3/16 FilHMS, drive, Phillips; material, steel; finish, black.
To reassemble the engine portion of a 227 family of locomotives requires that the process be done in a particular sequence to get all the parts to fit properly. To avoid many false starts, I took the time to write out the sequence. I assembled a locomotive today and used this experience to check out my written assembly instructions. The process worked well and I typed them up and am sharing this procedure with others who work on these locomotives.
Engine Assembly Procedures, Prewar semi-scale and scale 0-6-0 switchers, 227, 228, 230, 231, 232, 233, and 701
Complete disassemble of the engine is required for some maintenance procedures including wheel changes, stub shaft and idler gear change, and complete cleaning and lubrication of the locomotive. In this document the term “engine” refers to the frame with the wheels, rods, valve gear and steam chest. In this family of Lionel prewar switchers, a specific sequence of assembly has to be followed to get all the pieces properly reinstalled.
If the wheels have been removed, the right hand (gear side) eccentric rod cam follower, 227-43, must be installed as the wheel is pressed on. It is not possible to install this part after the wheels are pressed into place.
Install the right, 227-53, and left, 227-54, side rods with shoulder screws, 227-55, and flat washers, 011-24. Apply a ½ drop of medium weight synthetic oil to the crank pins prior to installing the side rods. The side rods should be installed with the simulated oil cups facing up the articulated rod joint to the rear of center driver. The side rod screws may be tightened with a 1/8” hex nut driver. Do not over tighten.
Install both current collector insulators, 227-48, with 4-36 X ¼ RHMS, Phillips drive. Install the left hand eccentric rod cam follower, 227-60 on the inside of the front left wheel.
The valve gear support assembly, 227-81, should be built up next. The valve gear support is frequently found with bends in it. Prior to assembly these bends should be removed as best as is possible. I wipe down all the steel parts with a black phosphate finish with Tri Flow to give some additional protection from corrosion. Assemble the valve gear support 227-61 and the valve gear bearing assembly, right hand, 227-62, and left hand, 227-65, using shoulder screws, 227-67. The valve gear bearing assemblies should over hang to the inside with the U shaped opening down. The shoulder screws may be tightened with a 5/32” hex nut driver. Apply ¼ drop of light synthetic oil at the four swivel points. The bearing assemblies should move freely.
Run the super flex wire from the front coupler through the hole in the coupler swivel bracket and then through the hole in the frame behind the steam chest. This step does not apply to models 230, 231, and 701.
The four cross head guides will need to fit properly into the four notches on the valve gear support assembly when these two parts are installed on the frame. These parts should be test fit at this point and any necessary adjustments made. Extreme care should be used in adjusting the crosshead guides, as I am not aware of a repair technique for repairing the crosshead guide if it is broken off the steam chest. Run a 6-32 tap, held in the fingers, not a tap wrench, into the three tapped holes in the steam chest. This is to clean out any dirt in the threads. This process should not remove any metal. Install the steam chest assembly, 227-72, and the automatic coupler assembly, 227-73, onto the frame with two 6-32 X ½ RHMS, Phillips drive and two #6 split lock washers, 2-111. Leave these two screws about two turns loose.
Install the valve gear support assembly, 227-81, on the frame using two 4-36 X ¼ RHMS Phillips drive. The mounting tabs should extend forward. Install the screws loosely. Ensure that the tabs on the right and left eccentric rod cam followers are inboard of the valve gear bearing assembly. Also ensure that the two U shaped yokes on the valve gear bearing assembly are free to move and are facing up leaving space below them for the side rods to move in and out of as the wheels rotate.
Work the crosshead guides on the stem chest into the slots on the valve gear support assembly. After the cross head guides are in their proper place in the valve gear support assembly, the steam chest and valve gear support assembly screws should be tightened.
Install the drive rods, right side, 227-98 and left side, 227-71, by inserting the crank pin ends (rear) through the front side of the slots in the valve gear support assembly. The part numbers cast into the rods may not match the part numbers given above. Ensure that the simulated oil cups are facing up. Apply a ½ drop of medium weight synthetic oil to the crank pins prior to installing the drive rods. Insert the hole in the rear end of the drive rod on to the crank pin on the center wheels. Install side rod screws, 227-55 and washers, 011-24. The drive rod screws may be tightened with a 1/8” hex nut driver. Do not over tighten.
Install the valve rods, 227-87, with the simulated oil cup facing up, through the slot in the valve gear bearing assembly and into the holes in the steam chest. Secure these in place using the long shoulder screw, 227-88, which passes through the valve gear bearing assembly and screws into the eccentric rod cam follower. This same procedure is required on both sides of the locomotive. The shoulder screws may be tightened with a 5/32” hex nut driver. Ensure proper alignment of these parts prior to tightening the screw to avoid cross threading.
To install the cross head, 700E-239, rotate the drive wheels so that the crank pin is all the way rearward and at the same level as the axle. Apply ¼ drop of light synthetic oil on each of the following locations on the crosshead: upper sliding surface, lower sliding surface, and piston rod. Insert the piston rod in the hole in the steam chest and slide the crosshead rearward and align the holes in the cross head and the forward end of the drive rod. Install hex head shoulder screw, 700E-59C, and the washer, 763E-56, to retain the cross head to the drive rod. The crosshead screws may be tightened with a 3/16” hex nut driver. Repeat this process on the other side on the engine.
To oil the outboard axle bearings, with the engine upside down, apply three drop of medium weight synthetic oil to each outboard axles through the oil holes and lay the frame on its side to give this oil an opportunity to run down the axle and get into the bearings. Work the wheels back and forth to work the oil in. Repeat this process to oil the bearings on the other side of the engine. Install the three oil hole screws, which are 4-36 X 3/16 BHMS and fiber washer 97M-15 in the oil holes. Oil the center axle bearings from the top in the gearbox. Apply two drop of medium weight synthetic oil to the axle on each side of the worm wheel. Work the oil in by tipping the frame assembly while rotating the wheels.
At this point the worm gear cover, 227-68 and the worm gear cover gasket, 227-69 should be temporarily install using four 4-36 X 1/4 RHMS. The faux stamped sheet metal leaf springs on the cover are installed facing forward with the leaf springs facing down. This temporary installation is required to keep the tabs on the eccentric rod cam follower from lifting from the frame as the wheels turn. If they do lift it jams the wheels. The frame may now be rolled back and forth to ensure all the mechanism is working properly, freely and smoothly.
Attachments
Images (8)
David,
Whoa...Very generous and thorough of you to document all of that. Looking forward to seeing it running.
Scrolling up, then I noticed you included such details as screw sizes! 
This is really great research information to have, something that I never saw Lionel issue. Anyone who has ever worked on these locomotives will appreciate all of this detailed information.
You've made me and my locomotives very happy. 
Thanks very much.
Tom
Awesome to share your knowledge in this way. I have always found that the best techs are also teachers at heart. Thank you for providing all that info - you certainly made me want to run out and buy a 227 in need of TLC!
One question, of the myriad of part numbers you listed above, how much success did you have in obtaining replacement parts? I'm guessing that items such as the armature laminations or bearings are not likely to be found anywhere at any price, other than through teardown, or custom made at your local machine shop?
Thank you David, your efforts are appreciated!
George
Hi George,
Jeff Kane, the Train Tender has been able to supply most of the parts I've needed for my switchers. However, sometimes, one can get lucky... Years ago, I bought the frame/chassis (with drivers, no rods) of one of these 227-series switchers of off eBay really for no reason, just to give it a home. In the end, it became a donor engine for the locomotive I started this topic about. Drivers and idler gears (also on the donor) were in fine shape and able to be swapped.
Tom
The 1989 remake of the 227, the 6-18000, used a lot of the same parts, maybe from the same tooling. Some times Lionel used the same part numbers for identical parts. Some times they used the same part numbers for parts that are not interchangeable. Some times they used new part numbers. And then there are the wheels. For some reason Lionel used the 701 part numbers for the wheels, but the wheels are not 701 wheels, they are really 227 wheels. That one I will never figure out. I use the 1989 Lionel illustrated parts list and write in the 227 numbers where Lionel changed the numbers. This parts list can be down loaded from the technical support section of the Lionel web site. It is in Supplement 15.
1989 is getting to be a long time ago and even the parts from the remake are getting hard to find. But if you shop all of the 5 or 6 well known parts dealers you still can find most everything you need to keep your 227s running.
David,
Yes, you are indeed correct about the 1989 remake. The 1989 New York Toy Fair catalog that Lionel put out had the new release on the cover and the wording inside said it was made from the original tooling.
My wife and I were married way back in 1989. 
Tom
It's nice to see YOUNG people in the hobby....I got married in 1968
From the letter I got from Lionel, I got the very first production 18000 off the assembly line, (So they say.)
Chuck, that is an interesting detail. What is the date that the first engine became available? Was it fall of 1989?
The engine I was writing about in the post about five above is back together.
Attachments
Videos (2)
That’s a very handsome machine, isn’t it?
Like music to my ears!
Nice going David.
Tom
I have been trying to get the proper 8976 locomotive with the proper tender. Some of the locos and some of the tenders have been modified over the last 80 years. I need to figure out which ones I can return to their proper configuration. I kept taking engines and tenders down from the shelves trying to figure out what could be done with each one to make this work. I gave up. I took them all down and set them out on the layout table to see which would go with which.
With all the locomotives on the table it makes an impressive picture. I did not even know how many of these 0-6-0 switchers I had.
Attachments
Images (1)
David,
Very nice and if anyone can understand when you said "I did not even know how many of these 0-6-0 switchers I had," I know the feeling...
Here is one of my #228's. I realized earlier in these topic that I had 4 of them!
Tom
Attachments
Images (1)
I have been going through my fleet of 8976 switchers. In looking at a 227 yesterday it noted it had a broken side rod. Thinking changing the side rod would be a quick fix, I got right to work. With the side rod off, I immediately noticed that one wheel was freewheeling on the axle. The loose wheel probably contributed to the broken side rod.
To change the wheel requires stripping the entire frame, so I got to it. The axle had been hammered on enough to peen the end over. I assume this was an effort to tighten up the loose wheel. But it made removing the wheel more difficult and damaged the bore as it was pulled off. I ended up pressing two new wheels on a new axle. With everything new and properly sized, the work went quickly. When changing only one wheel set l do not use the lines scribed in the wheel cups. I lock up the lower cup and put one of the wheels not being disturbed in it. Then I lower the press and, with the upper cup loose, I line the upper cup up to match the existing wheel. Then I lock up the upper cup. This way the replacement wheels will match the existing wheels exactly.
The cross head guides were bent down about an 1/8” on one side and a little less on the other side. I have never seen this before. I considered trying to straighten the guides. It quickly became apparent I was going to make tooling to be effective. To keeping moving along I decided to use a new steam chest I had in my parts box. This fit in the valve guide support assembly better than I had ever seen before. It was conformation that these two parts need to be fit together, and adjustments made, prior to assembly.
As with most 8976 switchers, the wire to the front coupler needed to be changed. I disassembled the front coupler and installed the new wire. The more I do this the better I get at it. This use to be the job I hated to do, but now it is just another repair. I also overhauled the motor. It was actually in fairly good condition, except it had been lubed with white lithium grease that has turned to glue. When removing the motor I noticed the fiber spur gear was missing one tooth. This has to be replaced
With everything back together and running very smoothly, the only thing left to do was service the e-unit and test it. It was in good shape, but when testing it, it failed to operate properly about half the time. The OO e-units are usually very reliable. I will take that project on tomorrow.
Following are a few photos illustrating the days adventures.
Attachments
Images (9)
I must say, you have a knack not totally unlike @Dennis Holler for finding broken stuff ... really broken stuff. Never have I seen a peened over axle. I have seen a bent crosshead guide, but it was not nearly as sturdy as the one you're dealing with - yours is a prime candidate for breaking or at least twisting - I'll be interested to see what kind of tool you employ to control the straightening process.
My first glimpse of the fabled fiber gear - any history on why they chose that material to make a gear?
Carry on lad, carry on, I'm enjoying this thread!
George
Me too, although I do not drop in all that often. This, and the 700 cars, might be Lionel's finest hour.
I only have one (converted to 2-rail), but can understand your obsession. I have three of the Williams B6sb with short cabs,and will someday convert one to the longer Lionel style cab.
oh - and eight SP Mikados, none of them Sunset.
They are something pretty cool to watch, with their beefy rods.
With all of mine, I have never seen a rod break before.
David, looks like you are pulling some heavy loads to be breaking a side rod!
Tom
Hi Tom, on the broken side rod, what I could not under stand is that there is a piece missing. It must have gone flying. George, the fiber gear was probably used because they run quieter. Spur gears can be quite noisy. The early F3s were a good example of noisy spur gears. There were a lot of fiber gears used in tinplate trains. It was something GE promoted at one time. I always assumed that the binder was a resin that GE had invented. I worked in a shop years ago that had a very old wheel press with a fiber gear driving the hydraulic pump. It was a 20 horse power motor. Another interesting thing about that press was the power transmission fluid was water. When the pressure was released the water was just drained into the sewer. The cylinders were cast iron with copper sleeves rolled in. Not sure what I am going to do about the bent cross head guides. I was hoping somebody here might have a good suggesting.
I spent the afternoon putting the switcher back together. The wiring was not too bad, but the center rail wire did need replacing. It goes from the head light to the front roller, then the rear roller, then to the brush plate plug, where it provides power to the tender. This is the most difficult wire to replace and has to go in early in assembly as it is covered by the gear box cover and worm shaft. I made it up differently this time. Instead of three pieces of wire, I used just one piece and cut the push back insulation where the ring lugs mount. I made tight loops here and then folded it over and put the loop in the ring lug and soldered it. The fabric loom has to be slid on first so it can be slid down over the lug after it is installed. See photo below.
Follow is a short video of the engine running. It runs well, but is one of the noisier 227 I have worked on. I am going to clean the shell and change the hand rails before reinstalling it.
Attachments
Images (1)
Videos (1)
@David Johnston posted:I have been trying to get the proper 8976 locomotive with the proper tender. Some of the locos and some of the tenders have been modified over the last 80 years. I need to figure out which ones I can return to their proper configuration. I kept taking engines and tenders down from the shelves trying to figure out what could be done with each one to make this work. I gave up. I took them all down and set them out on the layout table to see which would go with which.
With all the locomotives on the table it makes an impressive picture. I did not even know how many of these 0-6-0 switchers I had.
Okay that's just.... Wow. That is an impressive line up. With all the info you have posted on this thread I may have to get one myself. (Or wait for you to part with one you already overhauled!)
After getting the machinery running I turned my attention to the shell to see what could be done to improve it’s appearance. Someone had spilled what looked like glue on the right side of the boiler. I used a swab to wipe the spot with mineral spirits. It did not soften the glue, but after a minute I was able to peal the glue off with the help of a shape knife. The railings on the side of the boiler were bent up, which is common on a 227. I decided to change these. I have never been particularly successful at straightening the railings and removing then allows for bettering cleaning of the boiler.
Removing the railings is a bit complicated. Both the headlight and the class lights are in the way. The headlight can be removed by removing the boiler front. It is held in with two screws inside the boiler, which requires a long #1 Phillips screw driver to remove them.
Taking out the two class lights is a little more complicated. They have a serrated shaft that is pressed into a hole in the boiler shell. To get them out I use needle nose pliers with round noses. I think they are designed for bending axial leads on components being instilled into drilled circuit boards. I put shrink tubing over the noses that extended beyond the ends. The pliers clamp the class lights at the neck with the nose on the boiler shell. Then the the class lights can be levered out by moving the pliers up the boiler a little each time the light comes up a little.
On a 700e the hand rail stanchions go into holes drill through the boiler shell. Small nuts are applied to the stanchions on the inside the boiler shell. On the 227 the stanchion holes are drilled into the boiler shell and the holes are tapped. The stanchions are screwed into the holes, then unscrewed enough to get the hand rail holes to line up. Installation of the hand rail locks the stanchions in place. There is one stanchion on top of the boiler right at the front. That hole is a clearance hole, no threads. That stanchion has to be forced into place , as the side stanchions are preventing the hand rail from lifting up. This stanchion has to be pried out to release the handrail.
After the boiler shell is cleaned and the new handrail is reinstalled, the class lights can be reinstalled. They are set in place trying to line up the serrations with their previous grooves. The class lights are tapped in place using a wood block and hammer. I do not replace any missing rhinestones until the class lights are reinstalled as the reinstallation process sometimes knocks a rhinestone out.
Rhinestones come our because the slivering comes off the glass, not because the glue lets go. With the slivering off the glass the rhinestones have to be replaced, not reinstalled. I use a pointed Dremel grinding tool to clean out the hole. Then I put a drop of glue and a drop of Walters Goo on a index card. A toothpick is used to put a tiny amount of glue around the edge of the rhinestones hole. Then a tiny amount of the Goo is applied to the other end of the tooth pick. This is used to pick the rhinestones up and set it in place. The Goo is easily cleaned off the rhinestones after the attachment glue has set.
I hope the following photos help clearly this.
Attachments
Images (11)
Nice work David.
Did you use a clear coat on the boiler shell when you had the railings off?
I've had some luck over the years in straightening the railings with small needle nose pliers and something like a skinny piece of wood shim or plastic placed between the boiler shell and the railings to sort of gently work it out/away from the boiler shell, sometimes it actually works.
Tom
Tis nice work indeed! I too am curious if you clear coated the shell, or do you have a secret method of cleaning that you're willing to share? I'm pretty much a Liquid Dawn guy, with occasional use of alcohol, where appropriate.
While I have had some success in handrail straightening with judicious use of my arbor press and a pair of large needle nose pliers that have a very wide and flat area at the inner portion of the jaws, the work never quite stands up to a close inspection due denting of the wire by those tools. So I help keep the Train Tender in business in that regard!
Lastly, are you happy with the PS-32LAB power supply? I'm thinking about a new one, and end user testimony goes a long way with me.
Continue the thread, I'm really enjoying it.
George
On cleaning the shell, I start by identifying problem areas. I try cleaning with mineral spirits, maybe a #2 Swiss file, or some 2500 grit wet and dry paper. I also have various rubbing compounds with different levels of grit. Lionel’s paint is usually quite thick, so a little can be removed without damaging the shell. Then I wipe the shell down with Tri-flow. It is a light penetrating oil with Teflon powder added. The shell gets scrubbed with a bristle brush. I never get anywhere near the lettering. I then wipe all the Tri-flow off, cleaning detail with Q-tips and tooth picks. I get small head Q-tips from McMaster Carr. I continue wiping and cleaning until there is no sign of the Tri-flow. If it does not look like I want it to, I start all over and do it again.
I would not use a clear coat, it is too permanent. Twenty years from now that clear coat will still be stuck to the paint and there is no way to rejuvenate the paint again. Most of the old alkyd paints just need the dirt and oxidation layers removed.
‘The PS-32 LAB power supply has worked out very well. The protection is very good opening the circuit quickly with both a visual and audible alarms. I can set the voltage very precisely and set an upper limit on current. I have found the meters a little difficult to read. When a precise voltage is needed I include my Fluke meter in the circuit and use the digital display to set the voltage. I was looking for a way to test the whistle relays for pick up and drop out voltage. The PS-32 worked great for this. When ever I work on an e-unit I test it before reinstalling it. I have found that using my 5D tester for the coil and the PS-32 for the contacts works really well and speeds things up.
I just went through a 228 that had the idler gear stub shafts broken loose and the gears hitting the drive wheels. This requires complete dissemble to remove the idler gears and replace the stub shafts, which are pressed into the frame
This is a very early 1939 228 as indicated by the design of the rear tender truck. The coupler is articulated and in addition to being attached to a drawbar off the truck, it has a pivot point on the sheet metal frame. This arrangement keeps the coupler box centered over the center rail on curves.
The motor was in good condition only requiring resurfacing the commutator. The front coupler needed a new wire into the coil as all the old insulation had fallen off. The e-unit was missing the drum. It had jumpers installed that would have kept the locomotive running forward only. It was reconditioned using a few scarce spare parts. The drive train was in good condition, but cleaning and relubrication was required. All the wiring, except the center rail harness, was replaced, mostly just for convenience. All the parts needed a heavy cleaning as everything was covered with oil and dirt. This apparently did prevented any rust.
Everything is now back together and running will.
Attachments
Images (1)
Videos (1)
David,
Excellent work once again. What condition is the boiler shell including the numbers? It has a #228 in the front number plate? I ask because I am convinced that the riveted number plate (where no number appears) was not only used by the factory for 227's, but on the just as common #228's, also.
Tom
Hi Tom, the shell is in good shape. It is missing two jewels and the handrail wire is bent. It also needs a good cleaning. It has the 228 number plate. I have only one loco with a rivet instead of a number plate. The hand rails on this loco are interesting. I went to straighten them and could not. It appears that the hand rail is spring temper wire. This is a first for me, I will have to think on how I will address this issue.
On these locos there are only three parts that determine which model they are. They are the boiler front, front coupler, and brush plate. I regularly find these parts mixed up. By rearrange these parts I could make up any of the six locomotives. The 701 is not included in this. It has a different frame to accommodate the scale front coupler.
The tender is different. It has the number stamped on the frame. There are no difference in the shells. The interior has six different wiring possibilities, including the B and T variations. Then there is the rear truck. There are so many rear truck variations that I doubt at this point in history this will ever be figured out. This is, in part, due to Lionel redesigning the box coupler every year up to the end of production. The other issue is that replacing the rear truck is easy to do and there are so many to choose from. Some of the variations include weather the truck has a accessory shoe or not. Does the truck have a center rail roller. There is the early self aligning rear coupler and the 1942 short shank. There are two different flat springs used in the various box couplers. Some of the couplers have spears, some have spears with no barb, and some have no spear at all. I have one tender with a center rail roller on the front truck. Then there is all the locos that were converted to postwar couplers. The variation in trucks results in two different tender frames. It is interesting study, but I am unable to come to any conclusions.
The shell required a little more work than I was expecting. One of the hand rail stanchions was broken off, so I decided to go ahead and replace the handrails. To get the headlight out of the way, the boiler front has to be removed. There are two screws inside the boiler that take a long Phillips driver to get to. Then the classification lights have to come out. This is done with the special needle nose pliers with the shrink tubing in the needles.
The broken off stanchion would not come out easily, so I had to drill it out. I first used a spherical carbide burr to flatten the broken stub. Then I center punched the broken part and drilled out the part with a drill one size smaller than the tap drill for a #2 screw. I think it was a #50 drill. I was a good shot and the broken part came out without any damage to the threads. Then reassembly. With everything back together I still had to put three jewels in the class lights. I do this after the class lights are reinstalled as reinstalling them sometimes knocks out a jewel.
Here is a photo of the finished loco. I have finished servicing all 13 tenders and 10 of the locomotives. Three locos to go.
Attachments
Images (1)
This seems like the place to ask this. I recently picked up a 228 and I believe the Teledyne couplers work by hitting the whistle control button?
I tried that the other night and all I got was smoke from the rear coupler. Hopefully I didn't do something wrong but if that is how they work then I know some repairs are going to be in order.
Thank you in advance.
The whistle control button should operate the rear coupler on a 228. The smoke does not sound good. In the tender, near the front on the right side, is a slug relay. It works the same way as a whistle relay, except in the 168 and 169 controllers there is no shunt on the rectifier to reduce the current through the rectifier. On the 228 there should be a plug on the left side of the tender that goes into a Jack on the left side of the locomotives brush plate. With that plug in place there is a wire from the operating coil on the front coupler to the operating coil on the rear coupler. That continuous wire has a tap to the accessory shoe on the tenders rear truck (some times not there) and to the contact on the slug relay. With this arrangement energizing either the accessory shoe or the slug relay will cause both the front and rear couplers to operate. This is how the locomotive is designed to operate.
Smoke is not good. First I would look at the wiring. The old wire frequently gets brittle and looses its insulation. The wire to the rear coupler and accessory shoe goes through a hole punched in the steel frame without a grommet to protect it. A worse situation is in the locomotive. The flex wire from the front coupler to the Jack on the brush plate usually looses all of its insulation. That wire always requires replacement. If it is actually the rear coupler coil that is smoking, a much closer inspection is required. Other that a loss of insulation, another reason for smoke could be over voltage. The 227 family of locomotives are strange in that they have a OO reverse unit, which is designed for 12 volts and a 18 volt bulb in the headlight and a 12 bulb in the tender back up light. I have always assumed that Lionel expected us to operate the locomotive at a maximum of about 12 volts.
If the rear coupler coil has failed, watch eBay for a loose truck with a similar coupler and accessory shoe arrangement. With a fair amount of difficulty that rear coupler can be changed from another truck. On the early 228 locomotives the tender coupler is articulated in such a way that it uses a second contact point on the tender frame to keep the box coupler directly above the center rail even on curves. This arrangement is fairly rare and a direct replacement truck would be hard to fine.
On the 227 family of locomotives the front and rear couplers are either missing the barb on the spear or missing the spear completely. This is because to uncouple box couplers it is required that one end of both cars to be uncoupled must be on the uncoupling track as both hoods have to be lifted to separate the cars. With teledyne uncoupling only the hood on the locomotives coupler will lift, so the spear on the locomotives coupler can not be allowed engage the hood on the adjacent car. Because of this, if you replace a coupler on tender with a coupler that was not intended for a 228 tender you will either have to file the barb off or remove the spear completely.
Please let us know how things work out.
Don,
Now that David has done the hard part, by providing the correct and thorough answer, I will add my 2 cents.
If your locomotive is running well, if it was me, I would learn to live with a bad tender coupler that did not uncouple, but that is just me.
Also, if the locomotive is indeed running well, never take the boiler off if it can be avoided.
Additionally, if wanting to explore the condition of the wiring in the tender, if you notice a bad wire there, it is easier to replace that (with removing the tender shell), than on the locomotive.
Finally, please post pictures and explain the condition of the locomotive (runs well, runs poorly, does not run, etc.).
Tom
The wire on the front looks new. I will open up the tender and see what is inside. I may seek out some local help for repairs though. This sounds like it might get over my head fast.
