Roadside America - Trying to Save an O Gauge Icon

It would be an amazing feet of they can do it. I admire their goal of trying!

It would be cool if they make it happen!! At the current rate of contribution on Kickstarter they need 13,636 people to give. 

1. Been there once, very nice. As I’ve said in the past, they need to change the sign. What does miniature village mean? Advertise that it’s an operating Lionel train display and it will probably bring in a few more customers. 

Wow, I remember when my grade school class in Hershey took a field trip to that place, in the early 1950s. It was mind boggling to a little boy who was proud of our annual little Christmas layout with our 2035 running a circle around the Christmas tree. I felt like having a cattle car and a milk car was hot stuff.

From this article:

http://www.mcall.com/news/brea...-story.html#nws=true

IT states the former ee's want to move it from it's current location! That would suck along with possible damage to the exibit itself. I better get there soon!

Joe, how big is your basement in that new house?

Gerry

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

From this article:

http://www.mcall.com/news/brea...-story.html#nws=true

IT states the former ee's want to move it from it's current location! That would suck along with possible damage to the exibit itself. I better get there soon!

I saw a feature on this on the Allentown news last night. Channel 69. I don’t know why the employees want to move it. Maybe to a place that cost less in taxes but wouldn’t that decrease people coming in? Anyway, it was interesting to see and I wish them the best. I would rather see it moved than to just go away all together. 

IT states the former ee's want to move it from it's current location! That would suck along with possible damage to the exibit itself. I better get there soon!

I think that anybody who wants to see the exhibit better get there soon.
I have been there three times, each time on the way to York.  I am certainly glad to have seen it. But I have no desire to see it again.
The last time I thought it was looking a little tired, and many of the animations were not working.

The first time I went I picked up a Roadside American coloring book in their gift shop. They did not seem to have any left on subsequent visits. Anybody else have one, or remember them?

gmorlitz posted:

Joe, how big is your basement in that new house?

Gerry

Uhhhh....not quite that big.

The reason they want to move it is that the property is going to be sold. I would imagine the new owner would want to level any building on the 26 acre site and redevelop it. It's prime real estate right on Rt. 78.

I think a new location may help revitalize interest in the display.  

I really hope it can be saved. I remember when Tom McComas documented the story in 1991 for Toy Train Revue, and finally getting to see it in person as an adult was a marvel. It’s still a very important part of my childhood.

If they can at least get it moved to a new home, that’s better than seeing it completely destroyed forever.

Methinks this is a must-stop in October....if they're still there!! 

Seeing this layout in the '50's as we traveled from D.C. (home) to the Poconos to take my sisters to a girls' summer camp, was a burn to the memory.  I'd like to have my wife, who shares this hobby, see this layout before it's gone forever.  Shartlesville...as close as it is to York, it's been just far enough 'out of the way' from our trips (11-hour drive) from Michigan to the bi-annual meets.  But it appears we're on borrowed time for another RSA visit.

The financial/family struggles of this iconic display are, indeed, frustrating.  The skills, talents, time, and memories embodied in the Gieringers' incredible work deserve a better outlook.   Sadly, though, exhibits of this sort...even at well established/funded museums...featuring electric trains, animations, etc., do not sometimes survive the changing times/interests, competition for funding.

Ah, well, sometimes things like Roadside America seem to imitate life itself.  The recent need for a new roof.....sorta like needing a hip/knee/shoulder replacement.  Animations that don't work all the time?.....I've got a septuagenarian memory that has the same problem. 

And putting an exhibit on 'Life Support' with no good prognosis is a rather depressing outlook....crummy quality of life as it sadly shows its decline.

When John Allen suddenly passed away leaving his iconic Gorre & Daphetid HO layout in limbo, and NO family to sustain it, there was at least the consolation of having a tremendous amout of documentation....articles, photos, testimonies, etc....that was ultimately published as an enduring record.  We can hope the same for Roadside America.....at the very, very least!

KD

It may be prime real estate since it's along side the highway but moving it may kill the money maker.

dkdkrd posted:

.

When John Allen suddenly passed away leaving his iconic Gorre & Daphetid HO layout in limbo, and NO family to sustain it, there was at least the consolation of having a tremendous amout of documentation....articles, photos, testimonies, etc....that was ultimately published as an enduring record.  We can hope the same for Roadside America.....at the very, very least!

KD

THis layout is documented on a Tom Macomas  TMBV video, I think its the magic of Lionel. If someone knows for sure please chime in.

Last year on the way home from Hershey Park with my 16 year-old daughter and her friend, I suggested a stop at Roadside America.  Audible groans from the back seat turned into audible gasps as they walked through the entrance curtains to see something a little more vast and interesting than dad's train room. They spent the next 2 hours reading every sign, pushing every button and taking pictures. It was truly amazing to see the awe on their faces and level of interest they had in the display. 

Roadside is not just a train layout, but a piece of Americana that people, especially young adults have no idea what they are missing.   Pictures don't do it justice.  If you want to save it, start bringing your kids, and your grand kids and your great grand kids, if you are so blessed.  It needs to be shared to be appreciated and would be a shame to lose it.

They’ve raised $2,995 with 34 more days to go. 

The resulting ticket prices would have to be boosted to about $200 each  to break even.

I thought the monies raised on Kickstarter were donations. If so their break even point is zero.

From the Kickstarter web site:

In a new location, proper measures will be taken in order to ensure the exhibit remains fresh and appealing for years to come. The village's landscape will be reproduced using longer lasting materials while maintaining the same look and feel as the original. Preserving the legacy of the village's creator, Laurence Gieringer, and maintaining the nostalgic look and feel of the exhibit is our first priority.

So why bother to move it? They could start from scratch and create the "same look and feel".

dkdkrd posted:

Methinks this is a must-stop in October....if they're still there!! 

Seeing this layout in the '50's as we traveled from D.C. (home) to the Poconos to take my sisters to a girls' summer camp, was a burn to the memory.  I'd like to have my wife, who shares this hobby, see this layout before it's gone forever.  Shartlesville...as close as it is to York, it's been just far enough 'out of the way' from our trips (11-hour drive) from Michigan to the bi-annual meets.  But it appears we're on borrowed time for another RSA visit.

The financial/family struggles of this iconic display are, indeed, frustrating.  The skills, talents, time, and memories embodied in the Gieringers' incredible work deserve a better outlook.   Sadly, though, exhibits of this sort...even at well established/funded museums...featuring electric trains, animations, etc., do not sometimes survive the changing times/interests, competition for funding.

Ah, well, sometimes things like Roadside America seem to imitate life itself.  The recent need for a new roof.....sorta like needing a hip/knee/shoulder replacement.  Animations that don't work all the time?.....I've got a septuagenarian memory that has the same problem. 

And putting an exhibit on 'Life Support' with no good prognosis is a rather depressing outlook....crummy quality of life as it sadly shows its decline.

When John Allen suddenly passed away leaving his iconic Gorre & Daphetid HO layout in limbo, and NO family to sustain it, there was at least the consolation of having a tremendous amout of documentation....articles, photos, testimonies, etc....that was ultimately published as an enduring record.  We can hope the same for Roadside America.....at the very, very least!

KD

Unfortunately, John Allen's railroad and house burned to the ground days after he passed away. Hopefully not with Roadside America. Still have fond memories of visiting as a boy. Remarkable that it is still open.

Jim

As I think about moving the Roadside America display, it occurs to me that there is a very good chance that the fellow who built it used asbestos as a filler in his scenery material. This was commonly done in the era the layout was built. I have old Model Railroading books that recommended this.
If there is asbestos, I wonder how much could be saved.

Jim Waterman posted:

dkdkrd posted:

 

When John Allen suddenly passed away leaving his iconic Gorre & Daphetid HO layout in limbo, and NO family to sustain it, there was at least the consolation of having a tremendous amout of documentation....articles, photos, testimonies, etc....that was ultimately published as an enduring record.  We can hope the same for Roadside America.....at the very, very least!

KD

Unfortunately, John Allen's railroad and house burned to the ground days after he passed away. Hopefully not with Roadside America. Still have fond memories of visiting as a boy. Remarkable that it is still open.

Jim

Yes, I am aware of this.  But I didn't want to mention it re RSA....it's a horrific ending to something so treasured by the hobby.  

Of course collapsing/leaky roofs can be as catastrophic.  But, closing the doors, shuttering the building, letting it all languish in the courts, ultimately have something less draconian than fire or flood be its demise is in some ways more sad.

In some ways this is not unlike a forum thread from a couple years ago, bringing attention to an O3R club...in NC as I recall...that was finding it difficult to continue its layout due to dwindling membership/finances.  And, I believe it finally succumbed?  Maybe not all that rare an occurrence nowadays, sadly.

Best to make your visit(s), grab your pictures/memories, talk with the remaining caretakers, capture past articles,........admire the accomplishment while you can.

KD

Mikado 4501 posted:

I really hope it can be saved. I remember when Tom McComas documented the story in 1991 for Toy Train Revue, and finally getting to see it in person as an adult was a marvel. It’s still a very important part of my childhood.

L.I.TRAIN posted:

THis layout is documented on a Tom Macomas  TMBV video, I think its the magic of Lionel. If someone knows for sure please chime in.

The video he mentions above?

For those familiar with that I-78 area, they will probably build one of those "humongous" warehouse /distribution buildings on the 26 acres. 

Roadside America's layout should be donated to a museum while there is still time. If would be a significant tax write off for the Gerringer family.  Really who would buy such an antique layout, who would want it and who would have room for it?  it doesn't end up in a museum, I believe that Roadside America, one of the great layouts of the 20th century will be broken up, maybe parts auctioned off for peanuts and become lost history.

Like Delta Lines....

C W Burfle posted:

In a new location, proper measures will be taken in order to ensure the exhibit remains fresh and appealing for years to come.  The village's landscape will be reproduced using longer lasting materials while maintaining the same look and feel as the original.  Preserving the legacy of the village's creator, Laurence Gieringer, and maintaining the nostalgic look and feel of the exhibit is our first priority.

So why bother to move it?  They could start from scratch and create the "same look and feel".

Why bother to move?  Because the business has been hampered by its location ever since the highways were upgraded decades & decades ago.   If they could move to a more visible spot, with easier access, yet still nearby, their attendance rates would improve.  It is largely the LOCATION that has killed them.  That should be pretty basic to understand.

I think this is mostly a wasted exercise.  It seems the cost to move this will be more than simply recreating something new.  Yes, it's a neat layout, and I enjoyed visiting there, but it's very dated nowadays, and I don't see how they'd ever recover the costs of buying and moving it.  Remember, you still need a new building to put it in.  For the purchase price, a new display would seem to make a lot more sense, at least to me.  I can't see it being practical to move this.

The comment about possible asbestos use in the display in concerning, that would create a nightmare scenario.   If this has any extensive asbestos in the layout, it'll take a professional cleanup crew to deal with it, and they sure won't be saving the parts that they remove!

Why bother to move?  Because the business has been hampered by its location ever since the highways were upgraded decades & decades ago.   If they could move to a more visible spot, with easier access, yet still nearby, their attendance rates would improve.  It is largely the LOCATION that has killed them.  That should be pretty basic to understand.

Try rereading what I wrote, it should be pretty easy to understand. The comment wasn't why bother to move.

Probably not practical to try and save this display, however it is a piece of modeling history that is worth trying to save. Some people said Penn Station wasn't worth saving, but there certainly people who did their best in trying. And now that it is gone, we regret it. Once these icons are gone, they are gone forever.

I made a pledge to help save Roadside America. At least I can say I tried to help.

RadioRon posted:

C W Burfle posted:

In a new location, proper measures will be taken in order to ensure the exhibit remains fresh and appealing for years to come.  The village's landscape will be reproduced using longer lasting materials while maintaining the same look and feel as the original.  Preserving the legacy of the village's creator, Laurence Gieringer, and maintaining the nostalgic look and feel of the exhibit is our first priority.

So why bother to move it?  They could start from scratch and create the "same look and feel".

Why bother to move?  Because the business has been hampered by its location ever since the highways were upgraded decades & decades ago.   If they could move to a more visible spot, with easier access, yet still nearby, their attendance rates would improve.  It is largely the LOCATION that has killed them.  That should be pretty basic to understand.

I hate to break it to you all but there is NOTHING more visable than the current location in the surrounding area. What is needed are big billboards Advertising the place and directing traffic off the exit and through the serpentine roads into the model exhibit. More advertising in the Allentown/ Reading/ Hershey/Harrisburg areas as well as ads in model railroad type magazines and a dedicated website. Their days of just relying on word of mouth and those flyers at PA rest stops is what is preventing income growth.

If they have to move- in that surrounding area, there are not structures readily available at that size. A new building and would have to be built.  At 195,000/year [that the current owners are claiming in gross reciepts] How long until profit is made?

Asbestos issues would depend on how/where it was used. If Asbestos is encapsulated in something else where it cannot become airborn, they would not need a massive cleanup necessarily, but if it was used in the scenery shell and they will need to cut through that to move it, that likely would be a showstopper (after the initial hysteria about asbestos, they finally figured out they didn't need to remove asbestos where it was encapsulated and wouldn't need to be addressed unless it was exposed, like during renovation work, to the moaning of the asbestos removal industry).

I was there many years ago, it was pretty nice, but I kind of agree that if they are going to get that kind of money might be better recreating it, maybe take what they can from the existing display (structures, rolling stock, etc) but rebuild it with more modern materials and such. I understand the nostalgia behind wanting to preserve this, but then that raises the question if they spend the money to move it, will people bother going? A more modern setup might attract visitors more. 

My point exactly on the more modern display.  While this display is certainly a piece of history, and pretty cool to visit, it's really hard to imagine spending the amount of money we're talking about to try to move it.  I've been to Roadside America a few of times, usually with a different set of people that had never seen it.  However, it's not something that I'd want to go back to time and time again like Disney World.   The amount of money they're tossing around will build a pretty impressive layout in a new location, and you wouldn't be faced with all the issues of trying to move something that's 60-70 years old and certainly not designed to be moved!

So .... we provide the money via whatever GoFundMe so these guys can end up the owners of Roadside America .... yeah ... right.  Let me throw some sacks of money at them ... lol! Do I get a "thank you" card in exchange?  Or maybe a Roadside America boxcar ... at least something??

Hudson J1e posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

From this article:

http://www.mcall.com/news/brea...-story.html#nws=true

IT states the former ee's want to move it from it's current location! That would suck along with possible damage to the exibit itself. I better get there soon!

I saw a feature on this on the Allentown news last night. Channel 69. I don’t know why the employees want to move it. Maybe to a place that cost less in taxes but wouldn’t that decrease people coming in? Anyway, it was interesting to see and I wish them the best. I would rather see it moved than to just go away all together. 

Moving all that and have it end up going back together .. in a new place ... very VERY expensive proposition.  Wonder if it will be completed, or die a slow death on the fund-me-vine ...

I remember seeing pictures of it when I was a kid. Thought it was very cool then. We used to go to Knott's Berry Farm before they built Disneyland and I loved it. Road the train and did a lot of walking. Loved the chicken dinners. It was simple back then but I thought it was a big mistake when they started to put rides in. Didn't realize they needed to keep up with the times and then had Disney to contend with. If they didn't change it would be called Knott's Ghost Town now. Don

To me, the attraction to go back and see Roadside America several times, was the show they put on. The sounds and lighting they use to change from daytime, to evening, to night, to the dawn of the next morning, along with the American flag blowing in the wind, the slide show as God Bless America is playing, and the spot light on the Statue of Liberty, is almost enough to choke you up and bring a tear to your eye. It makes you feel so good to be an American and live in America. No other layout has hit me so emotionally as Roadside America. It's so much more then just trains running around a layout. I could remember going there as a child and seeing several bus loads of people loading and unloading in the parking lot, then having to wait in line to get in. They would allow the layout room to fill with people, then hold them there for the show. Once the show was over, the exit door was opened and that group funneled out, as the next group funneled in. It was very well taken care of then. Those were the good old days.

GUNRUNNER JOHN hit the nail on the head, in my opinion.  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think this is mostly a wasted exercise.  It seems the cost to move this will be more than simply recreating something new.  Yes, it's a neat layout, and I enjoyed visiting there, but it's very dated nowadays, and I don't see how they'd ever recover the costs of buying and moving it.  Remember, you still need a new building to put it in.  For the purchase price, a new display would seem to make a lot more sense, at least to me.  I can't see it being practical to move this.

The comment about possible asbestos use in the display in concerning, that would create a nightmare scenario.   If this has any extensive asbestos in the layout, it'll take a professional cleanup crew to deal with it, and they sure won't be saving the parts that they remove!

Exactly John.  

I have driven past this for decades, sporadically, since first visiting eastern Pa. in 1970. It was pouring rain the first time, and we drove on.  Later trips, we were hardened by encounters with "tourist traps', and wrote it off as one. Apparent mistake!  Never bothered to visit the one in Strasburg after developing that feeling.  How is it?  Should l stop next York?

Yes COLORADO, in my opinion, the CHOO CHOO BARN in Strasburg is another great layout. I enjoyed it so much, that I purchased a 1 year pass and would stop there on my lunch break, whenever I had delivery's of lumber to the Amish in that area. My favorite part was the modeled Strasburg RR steam train ride and how it would flawlessly uncouple the passenger cars at the end of it's run, back through a siding, then hook up to the tail end of the passenger cars to pull them backwards back to the loading platform. Once there, the engine did the same to hook back up to the front end of the cars to pull a new load of tourist. This happens over and over all day long. I've never seen it mess up.

Kerrigan posted:

So .... we provide the money via whatever GoFundMe so these guys can end up the owners of Roadside America .... yeah ... right.  Let me throw some sacks of money at them ... lol! Do I get a "thank you" card in exchange?  Or maybe a Roadside America boxcar ... at least something??

Sacks of money? I don't think so. The place is run down, musty like grandma's basement, and I don't think attracting too many customers. Still, I know what you mean. Maybe if the contributors got a 5 year pass or something like that....

As an interesting slidelight, I think either the Morning Call or WFMZ had a short article/story about Roadside America's non train side a few years ago.   If I recall the details there is some type of Catholic shrine (or religious relics) in the basement of the building.  

A quick googling shows one of the original owners joined the priesthood.

Wasn't it also a few years where there was a burglary of their inventory?    IIRC the article says that the thief/thieves "knew what they were looking for" and stole collectible trains,  (wasn't me, i only collect overpriced trains that lose value)

*** oops, found it!

http://www.readingeagle.com/ne...-at-roadside-america