Ross or Atlas Switches

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Hi all,  I know this topic is ongoing with much different opinions, but I am redoing a new layout and currently have atlas switches. I had a lot of problems with some of them in which the rail on the switch would "pop" off and I had to try and slid the rail back on. As in doing so the connection with the switch would be compromised and the train would stop at the switch with no power. I tried to solder the small rail to the larger rail, but solder would not hold due to the nickel plating. I finally had to sand the rail and solder took a hold. I was just wondering if the Ross switches are any better and if so, will they attach to the Atlas track or is there an adjustment needed ?  What other switch options are there, and if so how do you set them up. I heard about turtle switch ? or Z switch? that some use.   (2)  Another question is about DCS system Is there any other systems witch are better than MTH or Legacy that some might use? I have the MTH DCS but my CIU on one port doesn't work and I see the prices for a new one are through the roof. I tried changing the fuse but still no power on the one port. (3) Third question I have is about doing a turn table, I know the best cost $$$$ but wondering about the new Atlas version which seems to be out of stock in most places I think its the #6999 and if it is much improved.  Thanks !

1. I think you answered your own question on the switches.  AtlasO are problematic, Ross are not.  I mate Atlas track with Ross track with no issues.

2. I use Zstuff DZ2500 switch machines for their low profile and easy use with TMCC (sometimes have issues).  Others use the DZ1000 switch machine which sit a little higher but need an accessory controller either DCS or TMCC to control from a remote.

3. As for the TIU, GGG or Gunrunner will need to help you on your issues.  I'm a Legacy guy who reluctantly has DCS.  There's DCC but the expense of converting everything is high.

4. Turn tables I'm all for spending the money and going for a Ross or Millhouse studios.  Worth every penny.

You'll get fifty replies, with fifty different suggestions.  There's many ways to go, most not really wrong, just peoples preferences.

You won't regret changing out for Ross switches. Many are drop in replacements and you can use the Atlas track clips to mate them with the track, they have a similar track profile. This is what I use Ross switches and Atlas O track. I believe you would need to change from DC to AC for the switch motors if you use the Zstuff controllers that Ross supplies.

You may have a shorted TVS protection diode in your TIU. Does it keep blowing fuses when you change them?

Ok Thank You. The TIU import just stoped working one day I got no power to the track from it.  I changed the fusses on it as told but to no avail. I just rerouted the track power to the other input. Was working fine for years   Thanks for the reply on all

Ross, no question.

In addition to fuses, the TIU also has TVS suppressors installed that can go bad - see attached thread. They are not hard to replace. You can test by carefully cutting the TVS suppressor off the board for the port that is not working - if that port then works, you know what the issue was and will need to replace the TVS suppressor for that port. If removing the TVS does not work, you'll still need to replace the TVS suppressor for that port, but you'll also know the issue lies elsewhere.

TIU Rev L failed | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

I would recommend Ross switches, as well.

As to command control systems, DCC is around and available, but Legacy and DCS are the two main systems in use for most three rail layouts.

With turntables, you tend to get what you pay for IMHO.

There are far more types of turnouts with Ross than Atlas. For me that was the simple decision.

Ross' Prices are going up soon so don't wait too long.

Although the Atlas track is very attractive their switches are not. The appearance of Ross switches, their reliability and their lifetime warranty makes the choice an easy one. Plus the great selection of different switches is icing on the cake. My layout which was built in the late 80's uses Gargraves Phantom Rail track, Ross switches, Midwest Cork roadbed and a combination of Tortoise and DZ1000 switch machines. These components have been trouble free.

I have never had Atlas switches, but I am using Ross and I am impressed by them, and the service they give is amazing. Right now things are a  bit backed up with them, part of the problem is they are having a hard time getting the dz1000 switch machines and that can slow down the order, plus they have a lot of orders it seems. Not complaining, just letting you know that up front.

@triplex posted:

My layout....  uses Gargraves Phantom Rail track, Ross switches, Midwest Cork roadbed and ... Tortoise ... switch machines. These components have been trouble free.

Ditto for me, and Steve at Ross Switches is superb for sales, warranty and technical support. 

Atlas track (on all new alignments) with Ross turnouts. We've used them for years at AGHR without issues. The #5 (11-degree) turnouts are the standard ones we use, though we have a #4 leading into a spur, an 11-degree wye and a modified #8 curved turnout with a moving frog point (custom made) in the mix. As the original Gargraves track rusts out from the salt air, Atlas track is used. Most recently, the mainlines curving around the farm were replaced with O-99/O-108 fixed Atlas curves.

Thanks for all the helpful info.  I will check on the TIU for the suppressors   Thanks

@Richie C. posted:

In addition to fuses, the TIU also has TVS suppressors installed that can go bad - see attached thread. They are not hard to replace. You can test by carefully cutting the TVS suppressor off the board for the port that is not working - if that port then works, you know what the issue was and will need to replace the TVS suppressor for that port. If removing the TVS does not work, you'll still need to replace the TVS suppressor for that port, but you'll also know the issue lies elsewhere.

TIU Rev L failed | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

I would recommend Ross switches, as well.

As to command control systems, DCC is around and available, but Legacy and DCS are the two main systems in use for most three rail layouts.

With turntables, you tend to get what you pay for IMHO.

Thanks for all the info Ross switches it will be.

Ross: Quality - Selection - Great Service!

Hal

Ross for many reasons

I've used Atlas switches in the past and with any luck, I'll never have to use them in the future!  100% Ross here and happy to leave Atlas behind!

I've been leaning Ross switches, but have been changing my mind about going all Atlas. Both look great and both companies have been responsive to my questions. The main reason is I run a lot of 2 rail freight cars on a 3 rail layout. The scale wheels run through the Atlas switches without derailing. The Ross ones are really good and only derail 1 out of 20 times. I'm sure this is an obscure reason for many, but it is an odd situation I have created for myself.

It's odd that I didn't have the same experience with scale wheels on freight cars.  They ran fine on Atlas 3-rail track, but frequently derailed on the Atlas switches.  All the switches were O72 or larger, and I expected no problems, but that's not how it worked out.

Could you tell me about switch machines and how they work with the switches and where they go. Which ones are used for different conditions   Thanks

I go for simple. DZ-2500Cs.

I have used DZ-1000s a bit too high and certain (not all) steam engines drive rails hit the motor shell.

For COMPLETE invisibility Tortoise as they are set under the table with a wire to the Ross Switch throw bar.

Ok I have heard about some of these but why use them if the switch comes with it's own mechanism ? is it to hide it to look more real without seeing the mechanism or because they work better than the original

Also working on a new layout and trying to come up with different ideas Here is my current one does anyone have any imports of what else I can do. Maybe a turn table idea ? also may want to add a 2nd level  with an incline or separate running track later on, depending on the money spent on Ross switches lol. Thanks

Tortoise is completely hidden under the layout and is virtually trouble-free. Steve sells  the Tortoise machines.

BUT be prepared to use relays if you intend to control them thru an AIU. It is not a difficult process and there is plenty of help here. We are in the process of adding 20 Ross turnouts now.

If you get Ross turnouts, be sure to look at the indicator lights that can attach to the turnouts. They look really good.

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Hi all,  I know this topic is ongoing with much different opinions, but I am redoing a new layout and currently have atlas switches. I had a lot of problems with some of them in which the rail on the switch would "pop" off and I had to try and slid the rail back on. As in doing so the connection with the switch would be compromised and the train would stop at the switch with no power. I tried to solder the small rail to the larger rail, but solder would not hold due to the nickel plating. I finally had to sand the rail and solder took a hold. I was just wondering if the Ross switches are any better and if so, will they attach to the Atlas track or is there an adjustment needed ?  What other switch options are there, and if so how do you set them up. I heard about turtle switch ? or Z switch? that some use.   (2)  Another question is about DCS system Is there any other systems witch are better than MTH or Legacy that some might use? I have the MTH DCS but my CIU on one port doesn't work and I see the prices for a new one are through the roof. I tried changing the fuse but still no power on the one port. (3) Third question I have is about doing a turn table, I know the best cost $$$$ but wondering about the new Atlas version which seems to be out of stock in most places I think its the #6999 and if it is much improved.  Thanks !

Regarding switch machines:

1. One option (I have no personal experience with it) is to use the Atlas switches with the Z-Stuff DZ-2500 switch machines.  The switch machines are TMCC / Legacy addressable and provide both push-button and command control.
2. Tortoise switch machines are widely regarded as the most reliable ones on the market.  They mount under the table, last for years (20+), but are not TMCC addressable.  But if you are content with push-button control from the fascia and walk around following your trains, they may do the trick.
3. The Ross switches are very good.  I have a great number of them which I use with Z-Stuff DZ-2500 switch machines (under TMCC).

I do not use DCS (had issues with it in the past).  Given MTH's current situation, I do not have an optimistic view of their long term survival (don't flame me - this is my opinion).

As I do not own a turntable, I will not venture an opinion.

Best,

George

but why use them if the switch comes with it's own mechanism ?

if you are buying ROSS-READY switches with the switch machine attached then haven't you made a switch machine decision??

Another question : I would like to use my DCS remote and also use a manual switch at a control board with the switches. Ross offers 4 types of switches with all different price points with or without the switch machine add on for extra $ Which one will address my two options I want to use, and would I need any other add on to set this up ?   Thanks.

Well, I'd get the Ross Ready, they pre-wire all the rails so you don't have to, and it's a cheap option.  As for the switch machines, what you describe is probably the DZ-1000, but take note that some people have mentioned they stick up and occasionally snag things going by.  I use the DZ-2500 switch machines on my layout, they're smaller and that isn't an issue.

Ok Thanks

I don't run any steam engines and have not had any issues with the DZ-1000's snagging anything. Note also that both the DZ-1000 and DZ-2500 can be mounted below the surface.

@superwarp1 posted:

1. I think you answered your own question on the switches.  AtlasO are problematic, Ross are not.  I mate Atlas track with Ross track with no issues.

2. I use Zstuff DZ2500 switch machines for their low profile and easy use with TMCC (sometimes have issues).  Others use the DZ1000 switch machine which sit a little higher but need an accessory controller either DCS or TMCC to control from a remote.

3. As for the TIU, GGG or Gunrunner will need to help you on your issues.  I'm a Legacy guy who reluctantly has DCS.  There's DCC but the expense of converting everything is high.

4. Turn tables I'm all for spending the money and going for a Ross or Millhouse studios.  Worth every penny.

You'll get fifty replies, with fifty different suggestions.  There's many ways to go, most not really wrong, just peoples preferences.

Gary (or anyone), can you explain Zstuff DZ2500switch machines....sometimes have issues.......

I'm about to order about 25 Ross switches and I'm going back and forth between the 2 Zstuff switch machines.

I have experience with the DZ1000s (I retro-fixed 25 Atlas switches with them and have 3 AIUs through which I controlled them)  However, I like the idea of of skipping the AIU step and going right to CommandControl.

But, depending on the the issues and how common they are, I'll stick with what I know....DZ1000s and AIUs.

.....and, for what it's worth, with DZ1000 machines, I have never had a clearance issue with my Lionel or MTH Scale steamers (Hudsons, Mohawk,  J and the VL Niagara)

Peter

@Putnam Division posted:

Gary (or anyone), can you explain Zstuff DZ2500switch machines....sometimes have issues.......

I'm about to order about 25 Ross switches and I'm going back and forth between the 2 Zstuff switch machines.

I have experience with the DZ1000s (I retro-fixed 25 Atlas switches with them and have 3 AIUs through which I controlled them)  However, I like the idea of of skipping the AIU step and going right to CommandControl.

But, depending on the the issues and how common they are, I'll stick with what I know....DZ1000s and AIUs.

.....and, for what it's worth, with DZ1000 machines, I have never had a clearance issue with my Lionel or MTH Scale steamers (Hudsons, Mohawk,  J and the VL Niagara)

Peter

Early DZ-2500 switch machines had software issues and failed often.  Most of the bugs have been worked out but I think being so small they tend to fail over time.  But no worries, as Zstuff stands by their product and usually swaps them out with no question asked.

I like the DZ-2500 as you can operate them with your Legacy/TMCC remote.   You need Zstuff data wire driver and one wire that loops around the layout.  Wiring the DZ-2500 for TMCC/Legacy control is much more simple that the DZ-1000

Do you need the ZStuff data wire driver to run with the DCS AIU ?

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Do you need the ZStuff data wire driver to run with the DCS AIU ?

If you're not using TMCC command control, the DZ-1000 is probably a better choice.  You can configure the DZ-2500 for use with the AIU, but it's a more expensive switch machine.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

I don't run any steam engines and have not had any issues with the DZ-1000's snagging anything. Note also that both the DZ-1000 and DZ-2500 can be mounted below the surface.

I don't run with DZ-1000 switch machines, so I have no first hand experience.  However, I've seen more than one person mention issues with the DZ-1000 sitting high enough to snag things.

As far as installing them below the surface, if I'm going to that trouble, I'll be installing Tortoise switch machines!  I don't see how the DZ switch machines would be as reliable with longer linkages, IMO that's a bad idea.

@Putnam Division posted:

Gary (or anyone), can you explain Zstuff DZ2500switch machines....sometimes have issues.......

I'm about to order about 25 Ross switches and I'm going back and forth between the 2 Zstuff switch machines.

I have experience with the DZ1000s (I retro-fixed 25 Atlas switches with them and have 3 AIUs through which I controlled them)  However, I like the idea of of skipping the AIU step and going right to CommandControl.

But, depending on the the issues and how common they are, I'll stick with what I know....DZ1000s and AIUs.

.....and, for what it's worth, with DZ1000 machines, I have never had a clearance issue with my Lionel or MTH Scale steamers (Hudsons, Mohawk,  J and the VL Niagara)

Peter

Peter, the DZ-1000 switch machines are likely to be more reliable.  For one, they have more power so the springs aren't as critical.  Also, they have no electronics to speak of, so they don't have those issues.

I've pretty much tamed my DZ-2500 switch machines, but I did spend some time tracking down issues.

Noted thanks. As going with the  Tortoise switch machines can they be used with the DCS set up remote ?

You can control the Tortoise switch machines using the AIU connected to the TIU.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

As far as installing them below the surface, if I'm going to that trouble, I'll be installing Tortoise switch machines!  I don't see how the DZ switch machines would be as reliable with longer linkages, IMO that's a bad idea.

I'm going to give it a try on the workbench. I like the clean look but don't need the slow motion.

There are under table switch machines that will give you more "snap" action and be far more reliable than the DZ-1000 or DZ-2500 mounted under the table.  Note that with the DZ-1000 under the table, you will no longer have access to it's manual switch function.

Micromark also has their Switch Tender that's an under-table mount.  It just uses a SPDT switch as it's always powered in one of the directions.  That means you can wire signals directly to the switch, a nice touch.

I like the idea of the one from Micro you just shared, seems to be a nice idea with the constant power on

Gary and John.....thank you for your responses.....

Peter