Shouldn't 'O' Gauge be more defined?

 The manufacturers already state the minimum radius requirements in the "product description" of the item in the catalog and website listings.

Lionel scale locos are also described as such.

O gauge or O scale....they are two different things.

And yes.....this is one area I had to learn when I moved from HO to O in 1993.

MTH does a very good job telling the consumer if the item is scale or traditional. If the item starts with a '20' it's scale. If it's a '30' it's more traditional sized although some are very close to scale....but all operate on O-31 track.

Lionel is more tricky but still easy to find out.

Older Williams is almost all traditional,,,,,but some are scale...no real way to tell from the stock number.

Weaver all full scale.

All high end die cast or brass...... scale.

But O scale is well organized compared to 'G' which is maybe 5-10 scales now!

I don't see any problem - it's all very clear to me.   O gauge locos that require 36, 54, or 72 inch diameter track, etc., are identified in the features their manufacturers put out.  If they are scale they say so, otherwise I assume its not.  

Meanwhile for the enjoyment of those with tight space restrictions some locos are O-27 capable.  I like it: something for everyone, even if a lot of those everyones aren't aligned with my interests.

I just wish that all manufacturers would produce everything in one common scale so that it wouldn't leave you guessing.

Where are you seeing NEW items advertised as "O/O27"? O27 seems to be pretty much dead.

Lionel certainly doesn't use O27 in their advertisements these days that I've seen. The only place you'll find O27 mentioned is in a deep-dive into the specifications for many of the starter sets.

The only companies that really do/did O27 is Lionel, K-Line, and Marx. K-line and Marx are gone, and Lionel has included O36 track in their starter sets for several years now. They only keep O27 track in stock for morons like me who still run it.

If you're seeing it on dealer websites, you can't take the manufacturers to task for that. That's all dealer.

Manufacturers may state radius requirements, but check any advertisement from dealers, and you will see that it shows '0/027', when maybe a larger radius is required. Hunt for any new 'Big Boy' add and see what you get.

I'd like to see an apology for keeping O27 as a valid term, especially since 2000. 

I'm thinking there's O, with several different diameters, O27, O31, O36, etc.

Or are the low profile O27 (and O42) track still in use?

I will agree with the OP in that a locomotive that would require O72 diameter track should not be mentioned as O/O27 gauge.

I don't think anyone is listing a scale Berk or the Big Boys as O/027, don't think outside of a straight-a-way they could run on something as tight as an 027 curve.

Most of what I've seen lists the minimum radius an item will operate on.

I've seen a lot of new O27 track at my LHS and on the Lionel site (last time I looked) so apparently it is still is being made.

Jerry

I think the manufacturers pretty well cover this.

No confusion here. I think 0/027 just means it will run on both O and O27 profile track. It is not a reference to the minimum radius curve it will operate on.

BTW, 0-27 profile track has been made with curves as wide as 72" diameter.

I have never, ever, even thought about the height of the track.  Every loco I have, from pre-war through to the latest Legacy and Premier, ran on the Fastrack I had up to October two years ago, and runs fine now on the Atlas I have.  As long as you watch the radius required of a loco - which is always stated (usually the last item, too, to make it easy to find) - you're okay. 

In hindsight, I too know, Lee. But I could have saved a lot of money if I had figured it out or had someone explained the differences for me before I bought all of those 0-27 cars.

I've got a bunch, too, accumulated here and there, and they look good on those rare occasions when I take out my post-war stuff and run it, so on balance I just keep them on a low shelf and move on.  Not optimal, maybe, but . . . 

Gentlemen,

   The only beef I have is when the manufacturer says an engine or rolling stock will run on a smaller radius track than it really will, or when they build switches that will not accommodate my Tin Plate trains.   The engineering of 027 track had nothing to due with radius of the curve track, the height design & spacing of the track was different & lighter made than traditional O gauge, 027 curved track came in different radius's also, it was also less expensive to purchase.  Most of the 027 engines & rolling stock were designed smaller to run on that 027 engineered track.  The length of the rolling stock did not always mean you had an 027 car, hence the O gauge 2600 series

Tin Plate trains.  All I want the manufacturer to do is not misrepresent their engineered product, as Lionel did with the new Legacy Shay, without the old K-line

extender bracket, the Legacy Shay should have been listed as 042 min compitable, course this would have hampered sales like crazy.  In reality the purchaser never knows whether this was just an engineering mistake or a planned event, no matter the

min radius without the bracket is 042.  Lionel should have corrected their stated engineering mistake.

PCRR/Dave

Tom Blevins hit the spike dead on. If you remember Lionel used the 027 for it's entry level trains and O for the higher end trains. The only difference between 027 and O Gauge track is the height or profile of the rails and the cost. O gauge is the distance between outside rails. Both tracks come in assorted radius. If you compare 027 with Gargraves or any other scale track you would see the rail height or profile is almost the same, O gauge track is a taller profile the same with scale wheels vs O gauge wheels the flange is different on both due to the rail profile, scale wheels have a shorter flange. Both will run on either track profile just pay attention to the curve radius.

There is one thing missing from this thread.  There are some people who want O gauge stuff, but only have room for O-27 curves.  Except for the 1800 stuff MTH-RK are importing, very little of it seems to be coming in.

All WbB traditional locos and freight cars are O-31.....and most will work on O-27 really....I have ran them on tubular O-27 track. (only scale passenger, GG-1 and Hudson will not) All MTH Rail King will do the same. And Lionel still makes a bunch of O-27 or O-31 sets and cars, locos.

So there is plenty of new and TONS of used model trains that will run on O-27.

O27/O is not just about radius, early O27 equipment had less expensive motors and features, they had pickup shoes rather than rollers. Some prewar O27 locomotives would not work well with O31 switches.
I do agree the manufactures should clearly mark the minimum curve for the item’s operation. Although experienced modelers know enough to do some research, as some large engines may run on O/54 and some O/72

O gauge is expressed in diameter, not radius. 0-27 also has a different height measure. Many O gauge scale locomotives will acccomodate 0-31 diameter track, although overhang may be pronounced. My K-line scale berkshire says 0-31. Some stuff from Atlas, inc some of their cabooses, really do require 0-36 curves. I, personally have 0-42 and 0-54 loops as that's all I can get on my tablr. I do run a MTH Premier Allegeheny on my 0-54. Honest!

Dave G.

Dave G,

   Thank you sir for catching my radius/dia subsitute, you are correct sir.

PCRR/Dave

Is it as clear as mud now, LOL!

A piece of equipment may navigate an O27 curve but will hit the switch motor on an O27 switch, especially older switches with larger switch motors. A good example is Lionel’s Trainmaster.
I was able to run K-Line’s way undersized Big Boy  on our K-Line O/27 layout we had at my shop.
Some people hated that engine, but the guys with smaller layouts loved it.

Like said above by Tom, it refers to the fact that it can run on those profile tracks.  And like John said, there is O72 radius O27 style track.  This is why you need to look at the min radius of the locomotive, not just that it's O/O27.

As for tighter curves, I've gotten my K-Line Big Boy to go on O27 curves.  It's rated at O31, but I did convince it to take the tighter curve when I was testing something.  So even if you can't get the new VLBB due to lack of room, there are some models of the BB that will run on the small radius track.