Totally agree about slow running. Being a newcomer to Lionel, I'm always surprised at how fast people like to run their trains. On my N scale layouts, I would always try to run at realistically slow speeds, which would frustrate my young daughters. 😁

Ward: Interesting layout and trains. But I failed to see how the layout looked bigger. I think some added scenery would do wonders, though. Just sayin’.

Well that's just too slow in my opinion, but the first problem you have is room organization and space management, you can easily double up that space for the train by reorging the room!!

IMO, prototypically slow is the way you go regardless of the size of the layout. Command control makes that happen for many of us. Geared down premium conventional locomotives like the 773 and the Lionel F3s of the early to mid 1950s with two motors are also good for relatively slow pulling power. Arnold

Slow running makes them look more like models than toys.

@Yellowstone Special @Daniel Bobrovsky.  I agree with you both.

A little back story.  Back in the 90s up to 2012 I built N, O and G scale layouts.  Then I got out of the hobby except for a few times I'd run my G scale on the outside layout. All trains went into storage.

I retained the trains in a divorce in 2021 and an inventory showed over 200 pieces of power and rolling stock in O and G. I finally started pulling them out of storage this past spring with the intent to sell them at a spring show.  The one passenger set I did sell wouldn't run so I canceled the deal.   To avoid that in the future I set up a temporary 031 circle on my sewing table, I sew marine canvas and sails and that takes a lot of space, as a test track to test my other locos.

I found I enjoyed running the trains so much I decided to keep all the O and sell the G.  I expanded that test track into what I have now.  I have buildings, trees, bushes, people and other scenery details on the shelf. Just waiting for the grandkids to come other and help detail the layout.

They layout is still temporary as it needs to come down after the holidays as I have commitments for sewing projects for next spring.   When the time comes that 26' x 12' loft will make a great train room.

PS: I just love the smoke rings the 0-8-0 makes around the 1 minute mark of that video.

Thanks

Ward H

There are two other advantages when you run slow, not as much noise and if you are running dead rail the batteries will last longer

@Ward H posted:

@Yellowstone Special @Daniel Bobrovsky.  I agree with you both.

A little back story.  Back in the 90s up to 2012 I built N, O and G scale layouts.  Then I got out of the hobby except for a few times I'd run my G scale on the outside layout. All trains went into storage.

I retained the trains in a divorce in 2021 and an inventory showed over 200 pieces of power and rolling stock in O and G. I finally started pulling them out of storage this past spring with the intent to sell them at a spring show.  The one passenger set I did sell wouldn't run so I canceled the deal.   To avoid that in the future I set up a temporary 031 circle on my sewing table, I sew marine canvas and sails and that takes a lot of space, as a test track to test my other locos.

I found I enjoyed running the trains so much I decided to keep all the O and sell the G.  I expanded that test track into what I have now.  I have buildings, trees, bushes, people and other scenery details on the shelf. Just waiting for the grandkids to come other and help detail the layout.

They layout is still temporary as it needs to come down after the holidays as I have commitments for sewing projects for next spring.   When the time comes that 26' x 12' loft will make a great train room.

PS: I just love the smoke rings the 0-8-0 makes around the 1 minute mark of that video.

Thanks

Ward H

I have a relatively small layout at 88 sq. ft. and am able to run only 2 trains at a time, a passenger and a freight. I find it more realistic looking when the passenger train is running a little faster than the freight train.

Interesting history that transpired and it looks like you're off to a good start.  Good luck moving forward and please keep us up to date with photos as your layout plans progress.

I run my steam at 20-25 scale MPH, that looks and sounds great and takes several minutes to go around the mainline on my 12 x 24 layout.

Slow local freight.

I agree that running trains more prototypically on a small layout is the way to operate. It lets the viewer take in the details/scenery on the layout while the train passes by. The only time the trains run fast is when the grandkids are at the throttle. With PapPap looking over their shoulder ready to slow things down.

Prototypically doesn't necessarily equal slow.  Many passenger trains and some freight ran pretty fast.  Speed depends on terrain:  long and/or steep grades slow everybody down.  Also depends on era:  the drag freight era saw lots of slow but VERY long freight trains.  There are many variables if realistic operation is the desired outcome.

When I run my Texas Eagle, it usually rattles the buildings nearby, just like the real thing would have.  The local peddler freight, however, seems to taking a Sunday drive in the country, not wanting to miss the scenery.  Through freights move faster because they are on a schedule, as are the occasional hotshot manifest or the rare-but-prominent main trains (i.e. troop trains and militarily cargo).

However, when i clear the scale stuff off the layout and run my Marx;  Katy, bar the door!

@palallin posted:

Prototypically doesn't necessarily equal slow.

Of course not!  That wasn't the point at all.

My layout is only 8x12 (in a condo bedroom) but it’s scale running. Really long trains aren’t realistic in the confined space. Depending on the cars, 8-12 rolling stock or 5 or so 21” passenger cars are functional and acceptable for me. Curved 096/072 turnouts expand the capabilities of the small layout. Fast doesn’t exist in this domain - absolutely no enjoyment and not very realistic. Perhaps I can say my little “empire” is entirely in the “speed restricted” areas around yards, sidings, and passenger station areas. I wish I had a basement that afforded a large running area that “allowed” some speed - but I don’t.  So slow work nicely for me and is just Great !!! 🙂👍😜

Cheers !!! 🙂🙂🙂

I think you could add to the title, "more enjoyable" as well. I remember all those old conventional days where pressing the speed limits of the engines and cars was a thrill. I think of the Addams Family in particular. Definitely don't need the speed there. Some nice slow moving engines add to enjoyment just as much as having some run slightly faster than the slow trains. I think back to the one hobby shop that used to exist by me in the 90's, the layout always had very slow moving engines(HO) almost at a crawl. The operator was a very serious guy, and liked the realism of the layout. I think on a few occasions I talked with him about the layout, and the speeds as a question. He broke it down to the fact that only some trains travel at higher speeds. The layout was modeled around an area where there wasn't many fast trains at all, so it added to the realism and enjoyment for all who watched it being operated.

I run freight trains pretty slow. With passenger trains there’s a speed that seems to me to be purposeful. Not slow but not not racing.

I don't think slow speeds make a layout look larger, but they do look more realistic.

I have two model railroads - a 12'-by-8' layout with multiple loops and a main line O-72 outer loop, and a 10'-by-5' layout with a single O-54 loop that represents a rural New England branch line.

Trains ran at low speeds on the real New England branch lines, where they were powered by small steam locomotives (mostly 2-6-0 Moguls), and pulled two or three passenger cars or a few freight cars and a caboose at speeds below about 40 miles-per-hour - and that's how I operate the layout. Short trains running at 20 to 30 miles per hour pulled by small steam and diesel switchers look best.

The O-72 outer loop on the 12'-by-8' layout is more of a mainline, so I run trains faster on it - mostly at about 40 to 50 miles per hour with three passenger cars but sometimes even faster, especially when pulled by a medium-sized (4-6-0) or large (4-6-4) steamer or diesel. The higher train speeds look reasonable with the broader curves, and the chugging/diesel sounds and whistle/horn are more interesting to me at faster speeds.

The curves on most model railroads, even O-72 and larger, correspond to full-scale radii that would be traversed at low speeds, if at all, by a real train.

Having said all that, I prefer to see a model train moving along at moderate speeds where a whistle or horn is called for rather than creeping along a siding at 5 miles-per-hour.

MELGAR

Other than maneuvering in the yard, turntable, or switching tracks, I don't routinely run that slow.

To make that video I had the locos running at minimum speeds so I could juggle the camera and Cab 1 while ensuring there were no wrecks. The birds eye view was only for the video.  I have to find my tripod and make a little better video.

Normally I sit low next to the layout, about eye level with the trains and run them one at a time and a little faster, while the others sit on the sidings.   With the trains slowing coming into my "view" and taking a while to return to my "view" makes the layout "appear" bigger to me.

Fun to read everyone's responses and points of view.

Ward

@Ward H posted:

My current layout is only 3' x 8'. I've found I only want to run locos that have cruise control in them. I can run them nice and slow so the layout appears bigger.

Ward H

Your layout will also look bigger if you turn your phone 90 degrees.

@John H posted:

Your layout will also look bigger if you turn your phone 90 degrees.

@John H posted:

Your layout will also look bigger if you turn your phone 90 degrees.

Was waiting for that one!! LOL

To maximize the running effect on my RR I built cantilevered benchwork around the 200' of walls in the basement which allows for rather wide 0120 & 0144 curves.  This coupled with very gradual >1% grades allows moderate length trains running at moderate speeds.

My 3 rail portion must run at lower but still moderate speeds to reduce the running noise from overpowering the sound system.

EDIT:  If running a train at a slower speed than you or others would normally run your train it will take additional time for it to run it's course.

If the train takes longer to accomplish it's route in my world I am impressed that my RR seems larger.

@John H posted:

Your layout will also look bigger if you turn your phone 90 degrees.

AMEN!

Speeds:

Unless a slow order is in effect, or dismal track conditions warrants, 10 MPH will be about the slowest posted speed on a railroad.

Yes, it can be slower when switching, or dealing with horrendous track conditions, or pulling an excess tonnage train up a very stout grade, but generally speaking, 10 MPH is about the slowest you'll see. I've heard Roadmaster's say "if the track won't allow 10 MPH, then it needs to be out of service until fixed."

Short lines will often contain 10 MPH track for extended distances. However they can also be 25 MPH or faster.

Just some food for thought.

Andre

@Ward H posted:

Normally I sit low next to the layout, about eye level with the trains and run them one at a time and a little faster, while the others sit on the sidings.   With the trains slowing coming into my "view" and taking a while to return to my "view" makes the layout "appear" bigger to me.

Ward

I'm with you Ward.      I would like to be able to lift my layout to eye level .   

  I think the eye level thing must take me back to a long ago Christmas layout on the carpet when I got down on the carpet for hours and watched in fasination as the old Lionel set went whizzing by.

That oval seemed large enough that I couldn't wait for the headlight on the old black switcher  ( 6220 )  to come back around into view.

OK, OK, no more vertical videos from Sun Dog RR!  

Rich's video hit home. I need to improve my camera work.  

On another point in the video and responses, I'm assuming DCS gives you train speed in SMPH? Is there a way to measure SMPH with a Cab1 other than a stopwatch and yardstick?    I don't even run my conventional passenger trains anymore because they need to run too fast for my liking but I do run them faster than in this video.     I also need some freight cars, maybe it's time to pull out my Vapor Records box cars and caboose.

@Dallas Joseph. You get my point of view Dallas! (see what I did there)

Ward,

Using very short compact diesels and locomotives, and traditional cars, will also make the layout look bigger.

The Williams 44-ton scale diesel is an excellent example, at only about $150.

I also use tall HO water towers and two story HO buildings.  They look great and don't crowd the layout.  :-)

Mannyrock

I am also a believer in running my trains slowly.  Anybody that has seen some of my videos on the Forum knows that I often run them agonizingly slow.  I shot this video of a freight train running at, what I consider, a realistic moderate speed. 

My layout only has approximately 75 linear feet of mainline trackage.  I once did an experiment to see how slowly I could run a train around the layout.  It took 10 minutes to go one lap.  I almost fell asleep.

Tom

If the train is long enough one can boogie !

@Tom Densel posted:

I am also a believer in running my trains slowly.  Anybody that has seen some of my videos on the Forum knows that I often run them agonizingly slow. My layout only has approximately 75 linear feet of mainline trackage.  I once did an experiment to see how slowly I could run a train around the layout.  It took 10 minutes to go one lap.  I almost fell asleep.

Tom

Tom,

Your videos with "agonizingly slow" running are excellent, very realistic and interesting. I enjoy watching them since they last only for a minute or two. If they were longer, I would want to see the trains beginning to run faster. Same as I do on my own layouts. I may begin by running a train slowly for a short while and then increase its speed to simulate a trip to another place. I may then slow the trains to a crawl as they approach a stop at a station or on a siding.

MELGAR

Here is a slow one.