Smoke unit upgade help

An MTH PS2/3 fan driven smoke unit might just fit - It's very slightly less than 1" wide, 1.25" long and 1.25" high, which I suppose might squeeze in if you were able to enlarge slightly the lengthwise space. I got it from Brasseurs Trains, MTH part number AA0000070 (with short mounting posts) and it's a lot smaller than the older PS1 or Lionel units, in fact less than half the length of those units.

The great sage Gunrunner John says that you have to swap out the resistors in MTH PS2/3 smoke units and replace them with two 10 Ohm resistors wired in series to use them safely in TMCC engines. Also there needs to be a supply of DC power for the fan. Not a wholly simple exercise I fear but many people report good resulf

ts using MTH smoke units in Lionel engines although admittedly I think most people opt for the PS1 version.

Dan,

   You could use a 610-1315-200 smoke unit 1" x 1" x 1.25. You would have to change the resistor as this comes with a 8 ohm resistor.

Bill

CONTACT ALEX MALLIE HERE ON THE FORUM. HE IS GOOD WITH SMOKE UNITS

Note that the Super-Chuffer doesn't require any 5V supply, so you don't need the 5V supply of the PS/1 board or the larger Lionel smoke units.

The unit Bill suggests would be my choice as well, it's very small and should squeeze in there.  You will have to change the 8 ohm resistor as he said, I'd suggest a 20 ohm one.

Thanks very much guys.  I will go to Bill's site and order the smoke unit.

GRJ,

Thanks for the info!

Any chance that we can get a YouTube install video on how to put one in?  Maybe in a K-Line Hudson?

Thanks,

Mario

What is the original application of that smoke unit?

Maybe someday, I don't happen to have a Hudson ready for an install.

Note that every installation is a bit different, especially if you're swapping out a mechanical smoke unit for a fan driven one.  Mounting the new smoke unit and the chuff switch and magnets is frequently more time consuming than the actual wiring.

I believe that one is the one for the Legacy Atlantic.

I have upgraded two K-Line Hudson's to MTH PS-2.  If I remember correctly I made a short flat plate mounted to the legs of the MTH short smoke unit, and mounted the plate to the original chassis mount point.  I did have to go with the short Lionel fan motor for clearance.   G

I just upgraded a K-Line Mikado with fan driven smoke, cruise, and the Super-Chuffer.  I made a small plate as George describes and used a couple of short spacers with the MTH steam smoke unit with the short posts.  Made for a very neat installation and the smoke unit mated up with the existing boiler stack perfectly.  I didn't have to change the motor on mine as I had sufficient clearance.  I did remove the existing cam lever and chuff switch in favor of magnets and a reed switch to give it 4-chuffs/rev, which gave me a little more room below the smoke unit..

What voltage is that smoke unit supposed to run on with an 8-ohm resistor? Could you run that as is off a leftover CV board from a Proto-1 engine, or would you still want to change the resistor? I know that unit is for a Legacy installation but I don't know the operating voltage. 8 ohms seems awfully low for a smoke unit. 

I have a couple of engines where I could use a drop-in replacement for a Seuthe smoke unit running off a CV board. 

I change the resistors, and in one conversion, I tried a small switching power module to provide adjustable smoke, worked out pretty well.  If I can fit that in, I like to use the lower value of resistor and the regulator supply, then I can tune for any amount of smoke you like.

Forget the Seuthe regulator, it would never handle the current of one of these smoke units.  It happens to be close to the right voltage, but putting 5-6 watts into the smoke unit from track power would mean you're putting around 10 into the regulator, it would overheat in a flash and shutdown!

Not sure what you mean by "Seuthe regulator." I'm talking about the constant voltage boards used to run headlights and smoke on old brass locomotives with QSI and Proto-1 electronics. Those take whatever the track voltage is and put out the correct voltage for lights and Seuthe smoke unit. I think the output is 6vdc but I'd want to put a meter on it to be sure. I'd think a CV board like that could handle the current draw for a fan-type smoke unit, but I could be wrong!

That's the regulator that runs the smoke unit.  It doesn't have nearly the current capability required of modern fan driven smoke units.  It's a simple linear regulator circuit that dissipates more power than the load at normal track voltage inputs.

If you want decent smoke out of your fan driven smoke unit, that regulator will NOT be sufficient, of that I am sure.  A fan driven smoke unit needs at least 5 watts to produce a decent amount of smoke.  For an 8 ohm smoke unit, that's about .8 amps at 6.3 volts.  With 18 volts track power (let's discount the filter caps that make this worse than it is), you'd be dissipating over 9 watts in the regulator.  The only way that TO220 package does that is with a really gimungous heatsink! and some air circulation.

Lionel's use of 6 and 8 ohm smoke elements are on the versions that use an ACREG to control the smoke unit.  So it is given a lower voltage and also can receive TMCC Commands and adjust smoke output levels (L, M, H).  If you want to use that smoke unit, I would change the smoke element.  It might work, those Reg are 6V rated at 1.5amps and usually heat sunk to a large block of lead or the brass nose.  I can't remember the sleuthe ohm rating, but you can measure it and use an element at that rating or maybe a little higher in ohms.  G