Something to think about

Every Hobby has those types....they are the same guys who claim they bought a brand new Shelby Mustang for their daughter, yet the father is the only one driving it, and only to the weekly Saturday Car show at the Retro Burger King...with...the plastic still all over parts of the interior...no lie...I saw this on several occasions in Manassas VA.

Don - You are 100% correct in my opinion.  A little more courtesy and respect to our fellow modelers is something many of us need to work on.  I know I have been guilty of making comments that I later thought what was the matter with me?  It is easy to get so enthusiastic about trying to achieve the way that you want to enjoy this hobby that you forget that others are just as right as you are in the way they want to enjoy it.

Thanks for sharing this story and wakeup call for us.

Art

So sad but true there are people like that. They just don't understand the hard work many people put into bringing these neglected locomotives back to life. Would have loved to see what it looked like after being fixed up.

I wouldn't dream of criticizing anyone's modeling efforts, but I have seen some attitudes on here that could use a little adjusting.  Interestingly, the most skillful modeler-participants also seem to be the most encouraging.

Pete

A friend of mine has one of the most beautiful layouts ever featured in a magazine.

Once I made a comment that he would laugh at my layout if he saw it...

His reply was that he "never" laughs at anyone's layout, as he enjoys seeing the different construction techniques, good, bad, or otherwise he finds all layouts interesting.

Reminds me lyrics of a song by Michael W. Smith.

"everyone needs compassion, everyone needs forgiveness"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKta3gXyC3I

we all have something to offer, especially in this forum. I have found that no matter what you learn, there is always something new out there. If you give the same project to 9 different people, it will get done 9 different ways. AND they will all probably be great!

Keep on training!

I'm pretty careful not to criticize anyone's artistic ability as I have very little of my own!  I'm an engineer by trade and it shows in the kinds of projects I take on.  If I were to refinish your locomotive, you'd probably have a heart attack when you say the results!

Every person has their areas of expertise and areas where they could use a little (or a lot) of help, it's the nature of the hobby.

I have to say that I've had nothing but positive comments when I post anything & believe me my modeling skills aren't that good. Hearing something good though does give me the confidence to keep trying to get better. When I leave comments they are positive in nature also. For some reason I don't like a post I never leave a negative comment; I just don't comment. That person is trying his best & I realize that. Why post negative comments!!

Why post negative comments!! 

Spence

That pretty much completely sums it up for me. The forum is suppose to be enjoyable, not show me how immature and rude you can be.

Larry

sorry to say i know people like that; i often try to avoid them, but they show up in all aspects in life.  I remember many in the boy scouts who used to point out when a youth member was wearing a patch in the wrong spot on his uniform, it's the same type of person.  I see layouts, models, and trains that I wouldn't make/buy/run, and sometimes I question (to myself) changes people make, but as I currently don't have room to set up my trains, I'm just glad to see that others run their trains and our hobby is continuing to grow.  Everyone brings something different to the table and that's what makes our hobby great.  Experiencing some of this firsthand getting into the hobby as a young age (i wasn't really taken seriously by dealers until i started to back to shows most recently at age 24), I'm glad I found this forum where everyone has been very welcoming.  sorry for going on and on, but I have experienced this for many years and it actually kept me from going to shows and interacting with other model railroaders for a while.

Everybody has their own talents. We should all respect what other people do and cannot do. 

I met a young man yesterday at Edison at our modular layout who was in a wheelchair,cannot talk but he enjoyed the trains so much. Him and his mother stayed for a good bit. It was pure joy from him watching the trains that most people miss. 

Although it was hard communicating with him it was the highlight of my weekend. I thanked God for letting me meet him. 

And yes  I saw other people who thought he was annoying but believe me he was not the one who was annoying.

I try to do the same. As far as negative comments, my dad always told me if I didn't have anything nice to say to keep my mouth shut! Pretty good advice. I probably slip occasionally, but I really do try to follow that advice.

Another thing should all remember, especially where the written word is used to communicate (as in the OGR forum), sometimes good intentions are easily mis-interpreted in the translation of the writing. Maybe the poster meant well, but their post wasn't written just quite right. It happens a lot with texts and emails too.

I agree with all of what was said by you guys above!  This forum for the most part is made up of great folks that come here to learn and share...that is what it is all about.  One can make positive suggestions in a way that is not hurtful to help another modeler. 

Not too long ago, just a few short months as a matter of fact, we were fortunate here on the forum to show the door to a few folks that constantly had the need to be negative in some way or another.  We have Rich to thank for that!  Those that have to belittle another's work or even make condescending comments are just adult bullies and this just makes them feel superior in some way...  It is their form of entertainment that has no place here on this forum. 

We all have different levels of where we are in this hobby...not all of us are going to be at the same place at the same time.  To make the hobby better, we should encourage folks to enjoy it the way they like and at the same time we can inspire not only ourselves but others to even higher levels of enjoyment...and it can be done in a positive way....

Thanks,

Alan

I'll take honest comment over happy talk any day. There's no reason to be nasty, but you don't learn anything from mistakes if everybody says it's wonderful. Reminds me of the kids' sports where nobody wins, nobody loses, and everybody gets a trophy. The smart kids figure out the difference pretty quick. 

It's never a good idea to call anyone's baby ugly, even when it is.  One can make constructive suggestions for improvements if one wants, but when someone posts their work or shows it off at a show, they are proud of their accomplishment and I don't think that they are asking for suggestions, so I never make any. 

If at all possible, even when someone looks for constructive pointers or feed back, I try to email the person direct, as opposed to posting something in an open forum which could be misconstrued, not necessarily by the poster, but others reading the thread as well.

My original post wasn't specifically meant for those who post pics or videos of their work, but rather all topics where someone makes a derogatory remark, be it toward an individual, group, or organization. There are a few threads now where this is happening.

Someone makes a remark, another takes offense and posts a somewhat negative reply, and then someone else adds another comment, and suddenly a simple post escalates into a ten finger argument, or in my case, two or three fingers. I wonder if these same texts would translate to verbal assaults face to face?  

We need to respect a persons opinion, and if there is disagreement, express it sans malice.

Don

I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best modeler, but I'm much better than when I started decades ago.  I do OK, but not to the level of many folks here.  Modeling is a journey, and one that begins with a passion for the subject.  There have been many failures and patient peers to help me along the way... sharing new techniques, helpful tips and in some cases demonstrations.  Do any of us really start out as a master modeler?  No.  

But we sure can help each other get there.  

I agree that if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all!  Well except for people like SIRT who obviously cheat by taking photos of real rail cars and then he Photoshop's crab claws onto the ends!   

PS: If you haven't seen SIRT's work look him up on here.... it'll inspire you!

I agree.  Being deliberately insulting is out of bounds, but by the same token, we don't need to turn into a feel-good mutual admiration society in which everything is beyond even constructive criticism.

I agree with you and I'm with you on this Rail…. trust me on that.HOWEVER this is OGR "FORUM" yes a public FORUM …you ask the public for opinions…you will get them.People are people.One guy agitated the heck out of me on here by making a negative comment.I hated him.Then one day we were both in a LHS and realized who we were.He turned out to be one of the coolest guys I ever met.Take it with a grain of salt.Nick

I feel the same way.

Just read over most any post here and you can see that it is fast becoming just that, a "feel-good mutual admiration society".

And, there are a lot of "thin skins" out there too. It is a shame that so much of one's actual intent when spoken is lost when translating into words. Many times I have seen a simple question be taken the wrong way.

Grow up people. A difference of opinion is fine. Being down right mean is not. Read over that post a few times and give it some extra thought. Maybe it is not as bad as you first perceived it to be.

I don't think anyone has implied or even said that CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is a problem...  It is more like how it is delivered.  GHEEZZ guys...what is wrong with being positive and making another person feeling good about what they have accomplished in their hobby.  It is one thing if they ask for ideas and suggestions, it is quite another if they are sharing what they worked hard to do.  It may not be what you want to accomplish but that is not the point!  I was always told that it is best to lead by example so if you know how to do it better, a picture is worth a thousand words.  Big Jim is right when he says that sometimes the way we form our words can be taken differently than intended....this is why words have to be chosen carefully if your intent is to really convey a POSITIVE message.

Alan

Alan,

Funny you should say that. I once had a model car that I wanted to paint blue & red. My Mom told me the two colors didn't go together. But, I had to be hard-headed and painted it blue & red anyway. When finished, I showed it to my friend across the street. He said it looked like a real fartblossom. I was so proud, I went back and told my my Mom what I had. She whupped me a little bit! Moral of the story...Listen to your Mother!!!

Me too.

I once talked with a Lionel employee who told me that he had never seen a layout that he didn't like.  This hobby has people who deliberately try to re-create the simple layouts of their youth with old-style track and non-scale accessories that we are all familiar with.  Sometimes they don't function well, if they ever did, but they elicit a warm feeling of nostalgia of the 1950's when Lionel, Marx, and American Flyer were kings.  Others like to recreate the most accurate rendition of a scene with weathering of engines and rolling stock and elaborate landscaping.  I admire these people for their creativity and patience, and even though I am not one of them 100% of the time, I do incorporate some of their creativity in my layout as well.  When I look at trains running on a layout--any layout for that matter--I have to smile.  How can anyone be critical with something that has been created by another person in the image they want to create?  Of course, there are bad renditions of weathering or poor layout construction, but like any hobby, there is learning process that one has to go through to refine the layout into the image he/she wants.  We have all gone through this learning process whether we started in the hobby as youngsters and have a bit more experience;  or if we started late in life and have yet to discover all the possibilities out there.  So be kind to all of us, please.  In time and after more experience, we may come to the conclusion that our work could stand more refinement and better technique; but let us discover that for ourselves.

Great observation Pete and very true, it seems the most knowledgeable are also the most gracious. It's more evident here than any other forum I've visited on the internet. They set an excellent example I strife to follow though I may fall short.

I'm the same way.  One of my all-time favorite layouts was three sheets of shellacked 4x8 plywood in an 8x12 configuration.  Track, trains, accessories and that's all.  No scenery, no "vignettes," no figures, no weathering, no non-essentials whatsoever.  No "modeling" to criticize and easy to walk on if a situation needed to be corrected.  The trains were the stars there and they looked great!

Pete

This is a great post. Where I work, I don't have any problem being critical where peers do things that are sloppy, incomplete, or generally reflect a lack of interest in their work. But I would never be critical of someone's creative offering in any setting. The story in the opening post is heart breaking. Hopefully someone will find the poor guy and direct him to this forum to share his work. He'll get all the compliments he can handle.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Don. Afterall, at this joyous holiday season, what better gift can we bestow to others than a gift of thoughtfulness. A kind, caring compliment costs nothing, takes little effort yet means so much to those receiving it. It might last for a lifetime in the recipient's memory, even possibly "outliving" the item the compliment was given for.

Maybe a good rule of thumb to follow when replying to someones offering;

If there's no question mark (?) in the post, he's not asking for constructive criticism. And when offering constructive criticism it helps to include encouragement along with it.

I think that's an excellent analysis, Matthew.  And The Golden Rule in action, as well.

I tend to concur with most of the replies here.   It's one thing to offer advice and constructive criticism when asked.

It's the unsolicited that I see no need for, especially when there's not the "?".

I tend to simply ignore those people who seem to have nothing better to do than cut down others who are simply sharing their love of the hobby, if it doesn't meet their standards.

Luckily I have only encountered one person, in person, who was like that.

Years ago I had a few people over to see my old large (20 x40) layout.   Those who have seen me post here know that I do a very purposeful toy train/deal display theme on my layouts.  I had them bring friends who were into trains as well.

One of these know- it-alls decided to start pointing out everything that wasn't prototypical.  "they didn't use those kinds of box cars."    "That loco is wrong for consist, " and so forth.

You could see others in the small group rolling their eyes at this guy.

When he mentioned the wrong loco, I simply asked, "which one?  The Phantom pulling the chicken cars past the over-sized gateman or the Santa Fe F3 pulling the Giraffe car past the giant log loader"

I think he got the point.  Didn't say another word.  The rest of the group had fun.

Now then, counter to that:   Back in my HO scale modeling days, people would come over, and we would have sessions about fidelity to scale, scenic prototypes, and all manner of correctness for what we were doing. Constructive criticism was the standard of the day.  it was both wanted and received.

All in all there are, unfortunately, a very few in our segment of the hobby who seem to delight in raining on others parades, so to speak.   It's always the same less than a handful here who come out of the woodwork when someone posts how excited they are to have and play with  their new (insert item here), only to be told everything wrong with it and why they shouldn't like it.

The ignore feature is a wonderful thing.

Folks, myself included, who post their work here do hope for good, positive commentary.  If I, personally see something that might, in my opinion, help the offerer in the long-run, I will send him or her an email privately.  I would welcome this type of commentary if it helps me to be better at whatever it is that I try to do.

Richard Petty would likely take issue with this