hello chessie1971..............
thank you, as it took us 2 hours to take pictures and post photos here WHEW !!
Merry Christmas and happy new year to you and your family, keep in touch 
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Your Welcome
Merry Christmas Tiffany! First and foremost, where is your gearbox cover?
If you read my earlier post I mentioned that I have a SF 4-8-4 with the single Bose and the required resistor takes too much out of it to achieve the volume level you want. Make it simple on yourself and do the oval speaker first. If Scott is willing to work on it then I will send him a couple other speakers to try as well. If you do want to hear mine then I really have no problem sending Just the tender to Scott to test as well. I'd be curious if it's the volume or frequency that helps you most. I'm not worried about the shipping Neanderthals as I pack everything very well. Feel free to keep the other speakers or leave them with Scott. I will be starting a basement finishing project so I won't be doing any upgrades for a while. Just let me know what you arrange with him and when.
Hello auddriven and guys.....
I removed the gear box cover to show how heavy the gear is (thick teeth). The cover is back on. Perhaps can try the oval speaker or the bose speaker like on your tender. How much would a speaker like that cost and where can we get that? MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your family BTW,what is the 9 volt battery use for ?
The woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Tiffany, If you really wonder if there are differences in sound just look at the differences in the speakers. The one on top is what you have and as you can see it is about as cheap as you can get. The bottom 4 are all ones you can have if you want, free of charge. All 4 will give you a different sound from each other. I did find that I had a couple of the first Digital Dynamic speakers I mentioned earlier so I went ahead and wired it and sealed the pipe cap over it. This may work for you as well with the higher frequencies you are looking to hear. It's basically its own speaker box like Mike CT mentioned. I do have other speakers as well, but they are all high bass speakers as that was my goal to get more out of the chuffing versus the bells and whistles. Obviously I had been at this for quite some time and have too many engines that I have been tinkering with. What I have for testing is 2 upgraded 3rd Rail SF 3751 4-8-4's that I run side by side with different speaker setups to see what I like best. That is why I have so many speakers as I'm always trying to find the best sound and obviously have nothing else to do during the Minnesota winters. The Bose is guite a bit larger than these (sorry, I don't have one loose for a comparison) and is one of the reasons it sounds better, but as I said before it requires a bit of work. I had to cut away quite a bit of the tender shell mounting flange to clear the speakers, along with drilling the entire speaker hole pattern for the second speaker and drilling and tapping all new mounting holes. This is why it is a very last resort as it is a project for sure, especially when you are trying to keep it mint on the outside and not leave a single mark anywhere.
The Bose would run you around $75 for a Jewel Array speaker on eBay, which is 2 speakers. Obviously very expensive so it was just something to do for a challenge since I started with a clean slate during my ERR upgrade and wanted to see what was possible.
The battery is used for running in conventional mode to continue the sound when shutting down or going over dead spots. If you run in TMCC mode then you do not need it and it is highly recommended that you remove it. Your manual should explain all that.
Good luck!
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Hello audidriven........
I see that you have 4 different speakers oh boy !!!! Which one is the best of the 4 and perhaps you can just send one (the best one)and the one that will fit inside the body without cutting. I don't want to do any cutting on 1300 dollar engine but can drill new holes for the better speaker. We are broke from spending 833 dollars this month after paying rent,electric,cable,car ins. and 150 dollars in gas using our 1970 ford F-100 pick up truck picking up the S.F. 5011 (final 4th payment)and the Z4000 from Mr.Mann. We didn't want to take risk of shipping damage. We are on a fixed income and very very lucky to be able to afford this 1300 dollar engine (1200 plus sales tax) as after that it will be Williams engines like the scale size NW-2. I was showing how heavy the gear is of that S.F. 5011's gearbox (I put the cover back on of course),we were impressed as now we know that the gearbox will last long time under reasonable care and I will take very good care of the 5011. My husband is not into trains but play video games on the computer for long hours pretty much everyday so model trains keep me company. I will be glad to send a money order to cover one of your speakers and shipping when we get paid next Monday as we get paid onces a month. We are out of food for next 5 days so its really rough. BTW how was your Christmas ?
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
My Christmas was great Tiffany! Yours?
I don't want anything for the speakers. You can have all 4 so you can determine which works best for you. I don't want any money as I have way too many speakers. Just let me know if you want them sent to you or to Scott. If to you then just send your address to my email in my profile. I have Scott's info so I won't need that. I won't be able to ship them until January 2nd when I return to work. I hope that works. Take care!
Hello audidriven.............
ok, i can try one of them, what's that white cone on the back of one of the speaker uses for ? As long as i don't have to do any cutting on the tender body as if one of them is better than what i have and it fits inside then will use it. Don't i have to give the sounds a booster or will they all work ? I send you a e-mail and after Jan 2nd is fine. Our Christmas will get much much better next year we hope.
The woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Tiffany, I received your email and will send them next week. I know the Digital Dynamic speaker will not require any modifications as you just need to glue that one in place, being careful not to get any adhesive on the speaker face. The white cone on top is a PVC pipe end cap to act as a baffle. Speakers work best when mounted in an airtight box. Unfortunately, you can't get the tender fully airtight so this works well for a speaker that has a shallow throw. This doesn't work on high bass speakers as there isn't enough volume in that cap. Anyway, try that one first. My only concern is you may actually need the vibration of the tender shell for your hearing requirements. Only you can answer that after testing.
The other 2 may be narrow enough too, but will need something to raise them up a bit as the ring of the speaker cone is above the mounting plate. The cone and ring need to have free range of motion to get the most sound. The 4th one may be too large but I will still send it so you can check for sure.
Just hang tight until you get these and see what you have to work with. Danny is Scott's upgrade guru and can help you with the mounting if needed. He has my contact info and can reach out if he has any questions. Good luck!
hello audidriven...........
Thank you, for the speakers and can you mark the one that is Digital Dynamic. I will try that one first. Is it a 2 wire hook up right ? The Vibrations are important as that's how I able to "hear" it but placing my fingers on the top of the tender body when pressing the button to blow the whistle. How good are the railsounds 4.0 as i think that's what in my tender compared to MTH's proto-sounds 2.0 in railking engines? We have met Danny at Mr. Mann's office,when Danny was making the manual for mine 5011, he is a strange fella as he was trying to show us how to operate the TMCC in the manual standing next to myself and my husband and Mr.Mann pointing his fingers on the manual trying to explain how to do that but we didn't understand one word he said !!!!!!!!!LOL
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Yes, they are 2 wires. Very simple.
I won't answer the Railsounds versus Protosounds question as it's personal preference. I'll let someone else throw in their thoughts if they want.
hello audidriven..........
great, i am glad its easy, i can do 2 wire job . I wondered why Sunset 3rd puts in cheap speakers in the first place after all most of their locomotives are 1000 dollars or more?
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Tiffany, I think everyone would agree that they would rather pay for the extra detail and craftsmanship of the 3rd Rail models versus better speakers. The sound isn't bad out of them and several of my engines will retain that speaker as it is more work than it is worth to swap some out depending on the tender design. I just upgrade mine to tinker more than anything else as I have several older conventional brass engines I will be upgrading with TMCC and Railsounds soon and I just want to see what is possible for sound if starting with a clean slate.
hello audidriven......
Oh i see......... didn't your S.F.5032 come with TMCC/ERR cruise and Railsounds already when you bought it new?
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
The SF 2-10-4's came with TMCC and Railsounds, but they were an earlier version and mine ran very herky jerky (technical term). I bought the ERR kit for another upgrade, but decided to get this one running better first. What a difference it made. My next ERR kit is for an articulated engine so I will be starting my B&O EM-1 or a SP cab forward soon.
Hello audidriven and guys......
Who else beside audidriven and myself that has the S.F.5011,5032 on the layout?
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
I have 5032-had it for 10 years. An excellent runner and puller.
Tiffany,
I have both of those and many many MANY others. I'm guilty of buying every single ATSF 3rd Rail engine in every road number. -P
Hello robert bradley jr......
my goodness, 10 years...... Did you had any problems with it for owning for long time?
i am not sure if that came out right 
.
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Hello Trevize........
You must be a die-hard Santa Fe fan
. I always liked the looks of the late Santa Fe steam.
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
As for the lettering on the rear of the tender, HO decals will fit the bill. The lettering size is as close as it gets for height. Champ decals are not readily available and they were the only ones that made white lettering. The same decal was made in HO and will do the job. If you want O size decals the number is E-1W for O, and EH-1W for HO.These are Champ#'s.
I talked with Scott today about the mentioned "kit" to fix the driver drop and all he said to do was shim the front driver with plastic, nothing more. It's a shame that this wasn't found before they were shipped.
Frank
To Tiffany,
NO problems. She runs today as she did 10 years ago. Superb!
hello fgroza,robert bradley jr. and guys
That interesting to know about the Champ decals and would you know where i can get a set as the lettering on mine is white. Mine 5011 came with the shims already done before picking up the engine. WOW,10 years NO trouble !!!!!!!!! that's QUALITY right there!!!!!!!! . Did yours come with the railsounds 4.0/ERR cruise by chance?
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
I haven't received mine yet but I asked about the lettering and it was missing. A friend that paints brass did the measuring for the HO decals and said that they will work. I have several HUNDRED packs of Champ HO decals that I need to go through. If I find one, I'll let you know. I called several large hobby shops around the country looking for O scale Champ decals and they are all dried up.
The shim situation is mine to do as the engine is NIB. Should not be a problem.
Frank
Tiffany,
I do not have a single SF decal in all of the ones I have. BUT, my friend is bringing over a set that may do more than one engine. They are 24" high in HO so around 12'' in O scale. I should see them next week.
Frank
Hey Trevize, what other numbers of the 2-10-4 Santa Fe engines were available? I know of 5011, 5022, and 5032.
Also, to me, I'd like 3rd Rail do produce the 5001 Class 2-10-4. It had Baldwin disc drivers, delivered coal fired, converted to oil fired. What an engine!
Or good ol Madame Queen! 5000 Class
If 3rd Rail did Madame Queen and the 5001 Class, then all but the one 2-10-4 in the 3800 Class (3829) would have been manufactured. I doubt we will ever see that.
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Hello marker and guys.........
Is the S.F. #5001 different from the #5011's ? I see that the #5000 is totally different engine.
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
What a nice locomotive, How do you like the control system compared to the MTH PS2?
Originally Posted by Liam:
What a nice locomotive, How do you like the control system compared to the MTH PS2?
Sunset/3rd Rail products come with TMCC for the 3-Rail market, and the operate VERY well!
Is the S.F. #5001 different from the #5011's ?
Yes. The locomotive itself was very similar to the later 5011 Class. The first 5 (5001-5005) were delivered as coal burners and the last 5 were oil burners. Both coal and oil tenders were different than the larger 5011 Class tenders. The oil tender was the same as used on 3751.
Here is a Baldwin Builders photo of the coal burning 5004. You can barely see the Disc drivers. I'll see if I can find another photo which displays them better.
If you click on the picture and pop it out you can see it a little better.
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To Tiffany:
I don't know which sound system it came with (possibly QSI?). I am not much into sound or curcuit boards and because I have so many engines, 5032 gets rotated from the track to the shelf and back. When I do run it, it takes off with 30 cars with no effort. I am not sure my sound even works on it any more. A great engine to have!
I don't know which sound system it came with (possibly QSI?).
It wasn't QSI because the 3 rail versions came with TMCC. I believe it was Train America Studios TMCC electronics with RS4.
Hello marker....
I notced on the 5004, the piston guide and drivers ( baldwin disc) and shorter 12 wheel tender are different from the 5011 but the boiler looks the same as that would be a easy project for Sunset 3rd to make a 5001 version. I wondered if there was a H.O. Version of that made? Is the drivers on the 5011's a "Box Pok" type ?
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
Most of the larger locos had box pok , disc,scullen, or some sort of design other than spoke type. The spoke type had a habit of cracking due to high stress and this isn't a good thing. Imagine being the engineer on a loco and seeing a side rod swing up past the cab window! There was a lot of stress and power placed on the drive parts of the engine. One way to overcome the cracking of the driver was to leave more material on it in key points to make it more stable/safe. Most of the larger SF locos I believe had the box poc type of drivers, to answer your question Tiffany.
Frank
Scott should have just about all the plans needed. The tender is the same as 3751. I think the boiler basically the same. You should note that the front truck is also different.
BTW have you seen this video?
http://ctr.trains.com/en/Onlin...202-10-4%205021.aspx
The 5001 Class was made in HO by Hallmark and Westside Brass. I don't know if they were made by anyone else.
I also wanted to add this:
According to Age of the Decapods the differences were relatively minor - compared to the 5001-class, the 5011's featured inside bearing pilot wheels, multiple bearing crossheads, Boxpok driver centers, tapered tandem main rods, roller bearings on all engine and tender axles, and enormous 8-axle tenders that held more water than the so-called "coast-to-coast" tenders behind Pennsy's J1-class 2-10-4's (24500 vs. 21000 gallons). The 5011's were also all oil-burners, while 5001-05 were built as coal burners (converted to oil in 1948). And as with the 2900's versus the 3776's, the 5011's were heavier than the 5001's
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Tiffany,
Go to the Key brass website. They have several photos of different SF steam with different items pointed out between engines.
Frank
Hello fgroza and guys....
Thank you for the very INTERESTING information about the locomotive drivers, i learned a lot today
the woman who loves the S.F.#5011
Tiffany
hello audidriven and guys.........
Just wanted you to know that the speakers came today and will test the digital dynamic coned speaker first. This one looks like the least amount of work needed to install on the tender frame if i can cut 4 small slots on the white cone using the 4 tabs that already on the frame to hold the factory speaker but not sure if that good idea or not and if it will affect the sounds ? Since i cannot hear the bell ringing or the chuff chuff sounds but can only hear the whistle. So the whistle sound is important to me.
the woman who loves the S.F. 5011
Tiffany
To Tiffany:
The sounds on my engine stopped working a long time ago, a week after I got it. I hear a faint chuff as it goes but nothing else. Maybe mine needs the samething as yours?
Hello Tiffany. I would suggest you hook the first speaker up but don't mount it. This one is self contained so you will get the exact sound by holding it. Since it's the whistle you want to hear you can just set it on the track and lay the tender shell on a towle on it's side to test. I have rollers that I do my testing with as I want to hear the chuffing when I test the sound so that allows it to run while stationary. If it works then mount it using an adhesive like Goop. That is what I use and it works great.
If that doesn't give you the sound you are looking for then pop the cap off that same speaker and mount it using the tabs you mentioned. This will give you more vibration of the shell, which may be what you need to hear it, where having the cap on will eliminate that vibration altogether. This is the easiest speaker to work with out of all that I sent you so I hope it works.
If none of these work then you may need to let us know what you can hear as far as frequency versus volume as that will determine what actions you should take. You mentioned previously that you could hear a whistle on another engine by placing your hand on the tender. What that to feel the vibration when you listen or was that to help direct the sound?
Good luck!
